34 replies to this topic

[Duke Nedo]

What are your experiences?

How big advantage does IS mechs need in the bonus tables to make up for tech differences?

Edited by Duke Nedo, 09 February 2017 - 05:55 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Both sides got thier tier 1 mechs buffed. Pugs are worse off now. Meta teams will be fine.

[Duke Nedo]

Monkey Lover, on 09 February 2017 - 06:04 AM, said:

Both sides got thier tier 1 mechs buffed. Pugs are worse off now. Meta teams will be fine.

Which Tier 1 IS mechs got buffed? Honest question, did I miss anything?

[The Lighthouse]

Duke Nedo, on 09 February 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

Which Tier 1 IS mechs got buffed? Honest question, did I miss anything?

It is not that they are being "buffed", it is the worse mechs got nerfed by these changes.

[Duke Nedo]

The Lighthouse, on 09 February 2017 - 06:11 AM, said:

It is not that they are being "buffed", it is the worse mechs got nerfed by these changes.

So, they were less nerfed than the mechs that were more reliant on quirks, while the best clan mechs were in fact buffed?

[ingramli]

PGI really screwed up on this one, IS lost most of the quirks exclusive to them, Clan get what IS got in the new skill tree system, albeit slightly inferior (5% vs 4%?). The faction balance is officially RIP confirmed, today a game result may be IS 10 - 48 Clan, I guess after the Feb patch it should more likely be 5 - 48 or worse.

[The Lighthouse]

Duke Nedo, on 09 February 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

So, they were less nerfed than the mechs that were more reliant on quirks, while the best clan mechs were in fact buffed?

Yes. For instance, mechs with ultra strong quirks are the ones that have terrible hitboxes and hardpoints, such as Vindicator now receives lesser quirks (less PPC velocity, etc.) Mechs that are strong enough to not have any quirks, in comparison, received no change or even buffed based on what skill points are chosen. So in the end those top-performing mechs got stronger compared to other mechs.

[Bud Crue]

Monkey Lover, on 09 February 2017 - 06:04 AM, said:

Both sides got thier tier 1 mechs buffed. Pugs are worse off now. Meta teams will be fine.

Is this one of those "alternative fact" things I keep hearing about?
Looking at the two quirk spreadsheets, a lot of tier 1 mechs got nerfed. Most not as much as the lesser mechs, but yeah, lots of nerfs all around.

If your just focusing on the skills tree, then sure boating Tier 1 mechs got a buff, but anything carrying more than one type of weapon has by way of having to split nodes, gotten a nerf.

Help me understand the perspective here.

Seeing subsequent post...nevermind

Edited by Bud Crue, 09 February 2017 - 06:24 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Duke Nedo, on 09 February 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

Which Tier 1 IS mechs got buffed? Honest question, did I miss anything?

Any mech low on quirks is now better off. These are normally the tier 1 mechs.

Oxide and Stk 4n for example.

Hero QuickDraw and 1 laser spider are now worse off.

Hopefully they will balance this.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 09 February 2017 - 06:23 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

Since C-bills are now a more relevant factor in balance than before (each skill point costing C-bills, up to 91 skills), it's kind of important to note that it's a lot cheaper to play omnimechs than battlemechs.

For example, if you want to have a CPLT-A1, CPLT-J and CPLT-K2 with missiles, energy weapons and ballistics, respectively, you need to master 3 mechs. If you have an omnimech, you can just swap omnipods, respec the weapon skills and keep most of the other skills.

[ingramli]

Tristan Winter, on 09 February 2017 - 06:22 AM, said:

Since C-bills are now a more relevant factor in balance than before (each skill point costing C-bills, up to 91 skills), it's kind of important to note that it's a lot cheaper to play omnimechs than battlemechs.

For example, if you want to have a CPLT-A1, CPLT-J and CPLT-K2 with missiles, energy weapons and ballistics, respectively, you need to master 3 mechs. If you have an omnimech, you can just swap omnipods, respec the weapon skills and keep most of the other skills.

Not exactly. Under the new skill tree system, to save C-Bills on respecing, people will build a battlemech for a specific purpose (eg. poptart or brawling), and avoid making changes on its loadout. On the other hand, omnimech that are "doable" for many configuration by switching omnipods will suffer to pay for switching weapons modules every time the loadlout is changed. It is clear that one fix loadout per mech is the best way to save time to C-Bills grinding.

Boating, make up your mind for a single weapon platform would be the meta prevailing after the patch, assume no changes is made from the testing environment now.

Edited by ingramli, 09 February 2017 - 06:32 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

ingramli, on 09 February 2017 - 06:29 AM, said:

Not exactly. Under the new skill tree system, to save C-Bills on respecing, people will build a battlemech for a specific purpose (eg. poptart or brawling), and avoid making changes on its loadout. On the other hand, omnimech that are "doable" for many configuration by switching omnipods will suffer to pay for switching weapons modules every time the loadlout is changed. It is clear that one fix loadout per mech is the best way to save time to C-Bills grinding.

Boating, make up your mind for a single weapon platform would be the meta prevailing after the patch, assume no changes is made from the testing environment now.

Both factions have the option to buy separate mechs. A fully upgraded IS mech isn't really much cheaper than a Clan mech, due to the fact that you're usually forced to sell the terrible stock engine, upgrade DHS and Endo and buy a new XL engine. Both sides can buy separate mechs for different builds, but Clan has the option to respec omnimechs for a low cost to fit multiple builds.

[kapusta11]

It's the same IMO, meaning it's still crаp because of base tech differences.

[ingramli]

Tristan Winter, on 09 February 2017 - 06:35 AM, said:

Both factions have the option to buy separate mechs. A fully upgraded IS mech isn't really much cheaper than a Clan mech, due to the fact that you're usually forced to sell the terrible stock engine, upgrade DHS and Endo and buy a new XL engine. Both sides can buy separate mechs for different builds, but Clan has the option to respec omnimechs for a low cost to fit multiple builds.

You save upfront cost by not having to own multiple mech, but in long run switching between different loadouts with their modules will hurt your C-Bills account far more, it is like the difference between rent and buy, you pay much less upfront by renting, but the continuous cashflow requirement hurts far more than owning one more mech.

cost of extra mechbay aside, a full set of upgrade for a type of weapons (UAC, PPC, or LBX) cost you ~2.3M every time you do respecing, a full upgraded IS/Clan mech cost somewhere between 15~20M, depend on its tonnage. So roughly speaking switching for 7~9 times will cost you a upgraded mech (which is assume your loadout is single weapon platform, if you use more than that, the cost will be even more), unlike camouflage, you will change your loadout much more frequently if you want it to be multi-purpose, i dont see it to be economical at all in long run.

[Acehilator]

Faction balance got a kick in the teeth... again.

Both sides lose current module bonuses, both sides hit equally.

IS mechs got nerfs of at least 5%.
They can "earn back" what was nerfed by skills.

Clan mechs start from zero.
They can add 4% generally.

So IS mechs get to where they are on Live, Clan mechs get better across the board.

So Paul doing an amazing job as always. Well done.

And on a sidenote, why the hell is the relative difference between Clan and IS 20%, when the absolute numbers are so low that is does not even matter? 5% vs 4%? Really?!? If you want to play the game of smallest possible numbers, how about 5% vs 2.5%? The difference would still not do the imbalance between the tech bases justice, but it would be a start.

The level of incompetence displayed by everybody involved in the decision-making process never ceases to amaze me.

[Gas Guzzler]

IS mechs that were quirked in such a way to not promote an effective playstyle got a sizable buff. The Dragon Slayer comes to mind. Clan PPFLD and dakka got a sizable buff as well. I actually think PGI should dial down the level of ppc velocity and uac jam chance that the Clans have access to, but leave it the same for the IS. If anything, those have the biggest impact, and are a little much when you think of the KDK-3, Night Gyr, Timber, HBK-IIC, etc.

How the skill tree is set up now, without weapon/equipment buffs, the IS really needs to keep most of its quirks.

After 1 day though its a little early to asses balance as a whole. A lot of perception and spreadsheet warrioring going on.

[Fox2232]

Btw, this poll is pretty funny because it is likely that 1st half of those who filled "Worse faction balance" are actually on other side of fence than that 2nd half which had same complaint.

"Someone is always hurting me" syndrome.

Edited by Fox2232, 09 February 2017 - 08:32 AM.

[RoadblockXL]

IS mechs that relied on cooldown quirks and modules have some pretty huge nerfs.

Examples from the mechs I drive:
HBK-4G: loses 12% AC20 cooldown from lost module.
SHD-2H: loses 17% AC5 cooldown from lost module and quirks.
LCT-3S: loses 22% SRM2 cooldown from lost module and quirks.

Meanwhile, Clan mechs that didn't have quirks all get buffs. My favorite is the 16% UAC velocity, which is basically equivalent to 3 tons of targeting computer, that Clan mechs can now get for 0 tonnage. This makes it a lot easier for Clan UACs to hit the same point on a mech and basically removes their one disadvantage compared to IS ACs

[Illias Illtempered]

Without being specific (and also without looking closely to verify the entirety of end combinations with the new system) I can think of a few IS hero/champs that sans their quirks will become entirely undesirable as they will be worse in every way than the other chassis except for the cbill or xp bonus (some sort of were already even with the quirks).

[Acehilator]

Everybody and their mother running Clan mechs on the PTS... how surprising. The 4vs4 only serves to REALLY show how underperforming IS mechs are, with not enough other people to hide behind or to distract the enemy.