9 replies to this topic

[Arctourus]

I'm not sure how this will help diversity. Mechs that can carry a mixed loadout will almost certainly be more one dimensional now. Not to say that many people played mixed loadouts before, but now that people can choose what to upgrade, they may only lean to one area. It's kind of a psychological thing. Say you have a mech that is designed for mixed missiles and energy. Think a catapult or stalker. Mayhaps, in the past, you had quirks that helped one of those weapon systems, say missiles. So you made a missile boat, but you still put lasers in for a mixed loadout. Now, since you essentially create the quirks, a player may put all of their efforts into missile loadouts,but even though energy wasn't buffed any before, they may avoid them since they didn't personally buff them this time. I know it sounds crazy, but people's brains work in strange ways.

Second, I'm not sure why XP exists if there is such a steep cbill cost per node. I strongly disagree with the cbill side of things. Fact is, you don't have to have three chasis per mech anymore, but that's just getting ready to begin. I've been playing four years. I'll have TONS of mechs to refit now. I'm not a big module user, so I'm not getting a huge refund. I will, however, have to pay cbills now to get back the basic buffs, such as heat, mobility, etc, that I used to get simply for XP. Remove the cbill portion and make it strictly an XP cost. At least drop the cbill cost by a large amount, like to half or a quarter of the cost as presented.

Truly, I'd be happy with fewer nodes. Let us make hard choices between buffing weapons, info or survivability.

Maybe it's my video settings, but having to zoom in and out is a pain. The interface is...wonky. Scrolling up and down would be less clunky.

[Flashover23]

My first impression: 91 SP cap means I don't have the same Spider 5D anymore.

I can spend to replace MOST unlocked skills under current system (armor/structure, JJ, Upper/Lower Torso) OR I can replace modules (MPL range/cooldown, UAV improvement, Radar Deprivation, Seismic).

Both is impossible.

I'll check other chassis, but I'm not hopeful for coming CLOSE to what I currently run.

The Skill Tree will leave many hanging from the branches in a noose tied by PGI.

(Edit)
"Upon further review, the call on the field stands."

Skills unlocked or Modules unlocked. Choose one.

With the approximately 13 (the average so far, been running 11-15) SP you'll have left over from, for example, replacing Mobility Skills (not including JJ) and Modules (weapons, Radar Dep, Advanced Sensors, etc) you can hit Defensive OR improve that UAV to (almost) what it was before the Great Nerf of 2017.

Edited by Flashover23, 09 February 2017 - 12:59 PM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Flashover23, on 09 February 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

My first impression: 91 SP cap means I don't have the same Spider 5D anymore.

I can spend to replace MOST unlocked skills under current system (armor/structure, JJ, Upper/Lower Torso) OR I can replace modules (MPL range/cooldown, UAV improvement, Radar Deprivation, Seismic).

Both is impossible.

I'll check other chassis, but I'm not hopeful for coming CLOSE to what I currently run.

The Skill Tree will leave many hanging from the branches in a noose tied by PGI.

Another IS nerf and Clan buff... otherwise known as typical PGI "balancing"

[Doctor Dinosaur]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 09 February 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

Another IS nerf and Clan buff... otherwise known as typical PGI "balancing"

Have you read the scalings? IS skills are stronger than clan ones.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Doctor Dinosaur, on 09 February 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

Have you read the scalings? IS skills are stronger than clan ones.

Very small percentage points... they have to be massive just to equalize the penalty of having is XL engines, beyong having inferior tech for everything else. So IS got there big skill quirks removed/reduced while the already best mechs of every weight class got access to things they never previously had.

Therefore.... ANOTHER IS NERF & CLAN BUFF!!!!!!!!

Edit: it being a whopping .02% difference in Cooldown while getting access to Velocity & UAC Jam chance is a GREAT DEAL by ANY standard

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 09 February 2017 - 02:50 PM.

[Padre Balistique]

Doctor Dinosaur, on 09 February 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

Have you read the scalings? IS skills are stronger than clan ones.

by 1% from what I recall. 4% of 1000 is still greater than 5 percent of 100.

So clans get clanner, IS gets poo'd on from on high.

[Kamikaze Viking]

Looking around the various forums and threads this seems the best place for me to post.
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I did some testing after an idea came up on discord

I took a mech that I'd used huge amounts in comp and had multiple of the same variant with lots of XP, the GHR-5P.
Then I fully spec'd them up on the skill tree. slightly differently, and the xp cost was also slightly different 136,500 vs 135,000.

What i learned from my testing:
XP Spent on any invidivial mech (eg by its chassis serial number) is permanently linked to that specific mech serial number, not the Variant (eg ghr-5p) as it was previously, hence if you sell that mech its associated XP DISSAPEARS.

On the Live server if you buy back a mech that you mastered previously and sold, you get it back STILL MASTERED, even though you need to refit the mech itself for cbills, you kept the 'skills'. On the PTS you LOSE EVERYTHING AND HAVE TO START AGAIN.

Even if you try to manual refund the XP first before selling it. Nope you still lose it

TL;DR: NEVER sell a mech.

It makes sense why they are doing this, because if I upgrade my Red car, it doesn't automatically also upgrade my green car just because they are the same model car.

Except that its still called Skill tree, stop calling them skills, call them mech upgrades.
You're directly modifying the function of the mech, not the pilot.

So while it makes sense, its just VERY different to how it behaved before and we know how much people don't like change. For me the biggest problem is the fact that you can LOSE XP earned on a mech (and the many many hours it took to grind it) if you sell it by accident.

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I'm not a fan of forcing people to take bad/pointless nodes to get to the good ones. If the quirks are worth having then people will take them, if they are not then fix them (adjust values or costs), don't force people to take them.
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The longer I've talked to people about this, I've come to the realisation that a key problem with the skill tree is that its unnecessarily complicated by also trying to use it to replace the module system that wasn't broken.
Remove the Modules from the skill tree leave them as they are, reduce complexity and costs.

K. I. S. S. Principle

Good Stuff PGI, Keep working on it. and after you've read everyone's comments please Explain why certain things were done. and lets run PTS2 (hopefully with a Less complex system)

[Boelzer]

I have a general thing for the Skilltree to point on.
Could you please highlight Quirkpoints of the same Area? For Example Sensor Range.

You move your Cursor over Sensor Range +2, so all Sonsor Range Quirks will Highlight in any color you like ^^
This would help to navigate to certain areas of the Skilltree you wanna max out or to negotiate if there is any other way to go around quirks and so on.

[MookieDog]

The more I look into this.. the more one sided it becomes. Clans are .8 to 1 opposed to 1 to 1 for skills. This means that their buffs are HUGE. The clans are getting an extra something like 10+ skill points. Here is what I am now really concerned about:

If the clans still have access to their computers you may start to see an abundance of them:

With a L7 targeting computer and 3 C ERLL's I now have a range of 873m for optimum range. However unlike before the skill tree the burn time was about er 3.5ish seconds, its now its about 1.5 seconds, with three of those.. ya. The max range for that set up is 1500m and you are still scratching paint.

Same set up with 2 C LPL's. Optimum range is 702m. At 900m in Forrest Colony 2 CLPL L7 computer I sawed the Cicada in half four volleys. And by the way... the large pulse lasers fire quick... really quick. I did not need three.

I was not really impressed with the C ER PPC's. But in all fairness the PPC has not been in my playing style. However a 891M range for a poptarter is very impressive.

So unless the IS also has access to some kind of enhanced computers and not the Trash 80 we call a command console. We are basically going to see a blip on the minimap if we are lucky and then get melted. The amount of face time which Russ pointed out during one of the last round tables is going to go dramatically down instead of up.

I guess the only things I am looking forward to for the next patch are: Light Fusion Engines, IS UAC's, and IS SSRM's. At this time the rest is pretty much going to be a wash. It looks like the Clans will continue to march across the IS map with impunity (again) unless there are some drastic changes made to faction warfare.

[Hoarse]

I think the skill trees are ok. Tougher mechs, longer battles, cool.
I'm not super technical just observant, it seems as soon as you loose armor somebody machineguns you and in less than a second you've lost all weapons in that exposed structure.

Why does it seem Crit chances are through the roof, and what is the point in lasting longer with no weapons.