11 replies to this topic

[Kojak Bear]

This is a long, detailed proposal on how to possibly improve the Skill Tree system, IMHO. Please feel free to comment and share with others. Thank you.

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

Two other things I want to include:

1. Freshly bought mechs need to have at least 5 free skill unlocks (except max-level skills) to help ease them into the field, especially for newer players.

2. PGI should give us the option to pay a one-time amount of XXXX C-Bills (I'm thinking 3-4 Million) plus YYYY XP (20,000?) or maybe even an equivalent amount of MC's (100?) for the business model argument to get UNLIMITED Re-specs. That way it's a single grind and then we can enjoy worry-free customization after hurdling the pay wall.

[ArmageddonKnight]

I like how you took the time to make a visual reference.

However generalising all 'normal' AC's into one wont do. Think about the impact of the CD reduction on AC2's for example. IS 15% cd reduction on 0.72 Cd is only going to put it at 0.61, and Clan AC2's have the same CD as IS. To make much of a difference i beleve a change down to 0.5 is a minimum. That would require 30% CD reduction. Ofcourse you cant put 30% reduction on all AC types, that would be way to OP for AC20 for example.
Hence why the AC's need sperating.

That being said, ur Skill tree proposal is still alot better than PGI's current implementation.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 10 February 2017 - 10:27 AM.

[Larsh]

Your document is a much better representation of what I imagined PGI would release for it's Skill Tree. I like the idea of a more linear path for each weapon, and mech quirk.

Maybe PGI wanted to create the "honycomb" so players would be forced to take certain nodes before others, and that's how it was designed. But, after reading over the forums, and talking with others, many are put off by being forced to take skills that they would not take in the first place.

[Kojak Bear]

ArmageddonKnight, on 10 February 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

I like how you took the time to make a visual reference.

However generalising all 'normal' AC's into one wont do. Think about the impact of the CD reduction on AC2's for example. IS 15% cd reduction on 0.72 Cd is only going to put it at 0.61, and Clan AC2's have the same CD as IS. To make much of a difference i beleve a change down to 0.5 is a minimum. That would require 30% CD reduction. Ofcourse you cant put 30% reduction on all AC types, that would be way to OP for AC20 for example.
Hence why the AC's need sperating.

That being said, ur Skill tree proposal is still alot better than PGI's current implementation.

Thanks for the feedback. Regarding the example for AC 2 cooldown, I think that's where the "base quirks" can come in. For example, the SHD-2H currently has a base AC cooldown quirk of -15% in the PTS (lowered from -25% in the live servers), and implementing the changes I suggested would put the maximum cooldown of the AC 2 at -30% (just a shade under the -32% that it currently has in the live servers). I think that no matter what system PGI implements, some mechs will really need quirks to be competitive with others. I just hope that they listen to what we are trying to tell them.

[Kojak Bear]

Updating my Proposal to the Skill Changes. Please read, share and post your feedback. Thank you!

https://drive.google...N3NUMEx2MmhUNE0

Summary of Changes:
- Added AMS Overload to Support Skills
- Added 360 Target Retention to Advanced Battle Computer Skill
- Proposed "Antagonistic Master Skills" to curb max level skill boating
- Adjusted proposed skill points to account for antagonistic skills
- Revised example build to reflect antagonistic skills

[Pax Bellum]

Despise the honeycomb skill tree. I am forced to take skills I do not want just to get to ones I do. Perhaps if all of said skills were to be listed individually so that specific skill sets could be selected without needlessly being forced to take unwanted skills. Have main categories with sub categories i.e. MAIN:Ballistic: SUB:AC(2,5,10,20),LBX(2,5,10,20),Gauss,UAC(2,5,10,20), AMS. Et Cetera...

Edited by Pax Bellum, 10 February 2017 - 08:37 PM.

[RudWolf]

I really like your proposals, I have come to similar conclusions how the skill tree actually should be designed. I really like the idea of different max SP number for different chassis according to its OP potential. Also giving top-tier nodes higher SP requirement makes sense.

Only one thing I would add to your system and that would be a massive reduction in number of max SP and number of unlockable nodes. I think merging few trees together (especially offensive ones) would make whole skill-up proces more clear and synoptic. Also I don't think there need to be 5 levels of each upgrade, 3 should be sufficient.

5 free unlock is also great idea.

Edited by RudWolf, 11 February 2017 - 01:05 PM.

[Currant]

I like all of what I see except for two things: the disproportionate cost for LRMs and Streak SRMs, and why is their not an extra goodie skill for ballistics tree?

Why is it necessary for the tier 5 lock-on reduction to be 30,000 C-Bills more than all of the cost traits for every other weapons category with LRMs and Streak SRMs?

[Juvat]

Their cost projections for "purchasing" skills needs a serious revamp... either that or they need to restore the c-bill cash rewards in matches to pre-nerf levels. It's hard enough to grind out the c-bills to purchase a Mech but when you spend 3 million on a Mech and 30+ million to skill it up that is a serious deficiency in their planning. Makes it even harder for new players to get into the game than it already is. Not everyone has a decent bankroll to spend on this... just saying.

[Chound]

Kojak Bear, on 10 February 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

Updating my Proposal to the Skill Changes. Please read, share and post your feedback. Thank you!

https://drive.google...N3NUMEx2MmhUNE0

Summary of Changes:
- Added AMS Overload to Support Skills
- Added 360 Target Retention to Advanced Battle Computer Skill
- Proposed "Antagonistic Master Skills" to curb max level skill boating
- Adjusted proposed skill points to account for antagonistic skills
- Revised example build to reflect antagonistic skills

one thing that you missed. In this skill system there is no bonus for mastering the mech. .The mech is mastered when 91 nodes have been selected.. unlock what you need and forget the rest. 91 nodes is a little small for the current config. probably drop the trees for jump jet narcs.with all the operations stuff thrown in it should be more than 91 points. right now I have to chose between ideal operation skillsand weapons skills

[Kojak Bear]

RudWolf, on 11 February 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

I really like your proposals, I have come to similar conclusions how the skill tree actually should be designed. I really like the idea of different max SP number for different chassis according to its OP potential. Also giving top-tier nodes higher SP requirement makes sense.

Only one thing I would add to your system and that would be a massive reduction in number of max SP and number of unlockable nodes. I think merging few trees together (especially offensive ones) would make whole skill-up proces more clear and synoptic. Also I don't think there need to be 5 levels of each upgrade, 3 should be sufficient.


5 free unlock is also great idea.

I'm inclined to agree on the reduction of max SP - which will naturally decrease the number of unlockable nodes (when I looked back a my example build, I kind of felt it was too much as well). Also, the "antagonistic skills" in the proposal will theoretically prevent level 5 skill boating. With regards to 3 levels of each skill versus 5 levels, that was just a personal preference, since I tend to enjoy bit-by-bit progression (hence the extremely low cost of c-bills and xp per skill node), but 3 levels of greater increments each is also a viable alternative, and maybe less intimidating to the newer players.

Currant, on 11 February 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

I like all of what I see except for two things: the disproportionate cost for LRMs and Streak SRMs, and why is their not an extra goodie skill for ballistics tree?

Why is it necessary for the tier 5 lock-on reduction to be 30,000 C-Bills more than all of the cost traits for every other weapons category with LRMs and Streak SRMs?

I've done a little test with the lock-on times on the testing grounds and found the following values for lock-on time (it's a range because I'm accounting for the delayed human reflexes I had while testing, and this is not counting locking-on time for mechs under ECM):

LRM w/o Artemis: 1.1 to 1.3 seconds (1.0 to 1.1 seconds w/ TAG)
LRM w/ Artemis: 1.0 to 1.1 seconds (0.7 to 0.9 seconds w/ TAG)
SSRMS: 1.0 to 1.2 seconds (0.8 to 1.0 seconds w/ TAG)

The lock-on reduction time is expensive because that 1-second cooldown means that you LRMs and SSRMs with TAG/Artemis bonuses will have almost instantaneous locks. That's going to be OP as hell, especially in the lower tiers. In retrospect, maybe the bonus for that skill should be reduced to 0.5 seconds....

For the ballistics tree, only the regular AC's/Gauss Rifles have no added "goodies". LB-X has spread reduction (up to 15%) and UAC has reduced jam chance (up to 22% for IS and 13% for Clans). I feel that the Gauss Rifle is powerful enough not to warrant more buffs. For the regular AC's the "extra goodie" is the lack of antagonistic level 5 skills, meaning you can get all level 5 (cooldown, range and velocity) skills without locking any other level 5 skill.

Chound, on 11 February 2017 - 04:34 PM, said:

one thing that you missed. In this skill system there is no bonus for mastering the mech. .The mech is mastered when 91 nodes have been selected.. unlock what you need and forget the rest. 91 nodes is a little small for the current config. probably drop the trees for jump jet narcs.with all the operations stuff thrown in it should be more than 91 points. right now I have to chose between ideal operation skillsand weapons skills

That's the essence of the skill tree. You should be given a choice on which skills to improve your mechs. It's not like the previous system that enables you to get all the skills. No bonus is needed for "mastering", as a good number of level 5 skills already give a substantial boon to your mech.


Thanks for your feedback everyone! Let us all make PGI know that we have very viable suggestions. Pushing back the Skill Tree was a good indication that they are listening. Now, maybe we can influence the actual content of the Skill Tree before it hits the live servers.

[xTrident]

Kojak Bear, on 10 February 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

This is a long, detailed proposal on how to possibly improve the Skill Tree system, IMHO. Please feel free to comment and share with others. Thank you.

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

Two other things I want to include:

1. Freshly bought mechs need to have at least 5 free skill unlocks (except max-level skills) to help ease them into the field, especially for newer players.

2. PGI should give us the option to pay a one-time amount of XXXX C-Bills (I'm thinking 3-4 Million) plus YYYY XP (20,000?) or maybe even an equivalent amount of MC's (100?) for the business model argument to get UNLIMITED Re-specs. That way it's a single grind and then we can enjoy worry-free customization after hurdling the pay wall.

Not even looking at the details of what each node does I can tell I already like the cost of each node MUCH better than what PGI currently has going on.