33 replies to this topic

[WolvesX]

Just look at this! 2,6 mios for all those modules!

360 = 6.000.000
Seismic = 6kk
Sensor = 2kk
Target Decay = 6kk
Radar derp = 6kk
Target Info = 4kk
---

THATS 30 MILLIONS

(zoom =2kk)

... and you still have 65 skill points left!

---

The real fight should be about the respec costs. They need to go.

And obviously the balance of the nodes isn't perfect and that you have to take nodes you don't want is bad too.

If they change it that you can just take the nodes you want, would be better also.

Edited by WolvesX, 10 February 2017 - 10:32 AM.

[1453 R]

Cheap, yes. 9.1M C-bills for what amounts to a full module load is pretty cheap.

The issue is the 136k experience needed, more than triple the current requirement. And the fact that you can no longer float modules between 'Mechs, so the 9.1M C-bills is a hard, unavoidable cost. Nobody, except nobody, is going to sink 136k experience and 9.1M C-bills into every single one of the 150+ 'Mechs they own, and the grind is hellacious on newer folks with no reserves to fall back on and who wouldn't be spending any money on modules for a long while anyways.

[RestosIII]

But I also have to spend millions just to get my basic mobility and heat skills back that cost 0 C-Bills before this came out. So while people who used modules before are saving money, I'm getting gouged for all I'm worth. What is this, an insurance company?

Around 220m C-Bills for me to get my mobility and heat skills back on all of my mechs. I'm getting a 30m C-Bill refund. I can't wait to only be able to pilot a few mechs in my stable without needing to grind back to where I was.

Edited by RestosIII, 10 February 2017 - 10:11 AM.

[Roughneck45]

1453 R, on 10 February 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

The issue is the 136k experience needed

I disagree.

XP only has one purpose, c-bills facilitate so many other functions of the game.

I've said a couple times in other threads, I think that when a mech is mastered it should reduce the cost of nodes for other variants.

Edited by Roughneck45, 10 February 2017 - 10:10 AM.

[Lostdragon]

1453 R, on 10 February 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

Cheap, yes. 9.1M C-bills for what amounts to a full module load is pretty cheap.

The issue is the 136k experience needed, more than triple the current requirement. And the fact that you can no longer float modules between 'Mechs, so the 9.1M C-bills is a hard, unavoidable cost. Nobody, except nobody, is going to sink 136k experience and 9.1M C-bills into every single one of the 150+ 'Mechs they own, and the grind is hellacious on newer folks with no reserves to fall back on and who wouldn't be spending any money on modules for a long while anyways.

One offset to that is you don't have to buy three variants just to make the one you want to play as good as it can be. It is a lot cheaper to buy the Atlas you want and put 9.1 million cbills into it to make it as effective as possible than to buy three Atlas variants plus mechbays. For new players this means they get a lot more use out of the four free bays because they can buy one of each weight class to try without having to worry about not being able to skill itnup all the way.

I am rather bummed thinking about how I qm going to have to spend hundreds of millions of cbills just to skill up mechs I hqve mastered. That is very disheartening, I think PGI should give us a free skill up for each mastered mech.

[Ultimax]

Yes, except the current system doesn't force us to buy a full allotment of modules for every single mech - which is wasteful of cbills.


So while the cost is lower for a "full module load", it is now also mandatory.

On top of that, you simply can't buy Weapon CD module anymore - it basically doesn't exist.

The new CD skills barely cover Fast Fire.

Edited by Ultimax, 10 February 2017 - 10:27 AM.

[jjm1]

I was shocked when my WHK-PRIME ate almost all its legacy XP to remaster it. I mastered it ages ago and played the hell out of it since.

The grind will be real. The regrind of the regrind, will grind hard on my enjoyment of the game no doubt.

[Felbombling]

1453 R, on 10 February 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

The issue is the 136k experience needed, more than triple the current requirement.

In the past you needed, minimum, 85750XP to Master a single Mech. You forgot basic for three different chassis. It would be more if it were your first trip down a weight class line... another 43000XP for the Elite levels.

It is a common oversight on the math.

[Gas Guzzler]

StaggerCheck, on 10 February 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

In the past you needed, minimum, 85750XP to Master a single Mech. You forgot basic for three different chassis. It would be more if it were your first trip down a weight class line... another 43000XP for the Elite levels.

It is a common oversight on the math.

But if you want a duplicate or another variant of the same chassis, the "benefit" is seriously diminished.

Honestly.. given that you don't actually buy those modules for all 200+ mechs you own, this is a huge increase in cost, one that will take me years to actually make up, not even considering the new mechs.

[Orville Righteous]

Yeah, it's cheaper if you weren't a module switcher. It's going to cost me a lot (I'm a module switcher) but it's going to be great not having to look for modules to put on 'mechs. I can play around with my drop deck without having to worry if the mech has modules or not. My unit mates aren't going to have to wait for me to move modules around when I switch mechs in the group queue.


I'm only going to skill up the mechs I use a lot first because I won't be able to skill up all of them. Then I'll probably move to the mechs that I mastered but don't use as often after that. Some of them won't have enough xp to become fully mastered in the new system, but that's OK.

[FireStoat]

RestosIII, on 10 February 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

But I also have to spend millions just to get my basic mobility and heat skills back that cost 0 C-Bills before this came out. So while people who used modules before are saving money, I'm getting gouged for all I'm worth. What is this, an insurance company?

This is the single greatest issue with the new tree and how it's being rolled into the game. Older players have over a hundred, or over 200 mechs on their accounts that are at Elite status (basic & advanced unlocked, basic gaining x2 bonus), and over one third of their total mechs are Mastered for the extra slot.

Those players put the work in. They followed the rules they were given. They made their purchases based off of YEARS of a system being in place. None of those players did anything wrong. All of those players are being punished in one broad stroke.

I have never, ever, ever seen a video game company, whether it's an MMOBA or MMORPG being the game, do this sort of thing to their player base to this large of a degree.

The correct thing to do is that for every mech that is Elite or Mastered that a player owns, that mech will have all of its bonuses unlocked on the new tree for free but without the necessary prerequisite unlocks that were never a part of their past mech bonuses. That amount of Exp should be deducted from the Mech's Historical Exp. And then the player should be told that if they respec that tree for any reason, the broken rule of not needing the prerequisite unlocks is gone and they have to fill out the tree in the normal fashion, taking stuff that they probably don't want to recover what they had.

This would not be hard to do and it would prevent a massive amount of hard feelings with the established players in the game. I have absolutely no clue why PGI is moving forward to alienate their older player base who WILL flood the game with the most negative advertising campaign any company has ever seen in online gaming.

Edited by FireStoat, 10 February 2017 - 11:20 AM.

[Trollfeed]

At the moment cost of my needed modules are around 50 million. After skill tree remastering mechs would be around 900 million. Mad cheap, eh?

This game has already more than enough money sinks, something like this will make me just stop playing.

[TheStrider]

Cheap if you bought modules for each mech - I (plus everyone I know personally) did not. I had one of each weapon module, maybe two for common ones for CW usage. I had enough Seismic and Radar Derp to outfit a drop deck. Most of my casual friends only have a handful of modules.

So the cost really is my problem. As much as it was a surprise that my King Crab (L) isn't mastered under the new system, I think I'm OK with that.

The time-to-efficiency of a mech is going to be quite longer. Effectively I considered "done basics", "have speed tweak" and "done elites" as performance milestones. After that I didn't feel the absolute need to master a mech.

Now there will be a considerable difference in performance between 0 and 91 skill points. What I find interesting in that is the changes in performance will be gradual over time, rather than in big jumps.


Ultimately I think the cbill cost is too high. Modules were optional previously, so the cost was optional. Now it's forced. I think I'm ok with some cost, since I'm saving time now in not having to load modules prior to any mech swap. (Though I'll need to do this still for warhorns! )

[Cy Mitchell]

Yep, if you only ever Master one Mech then it is substantially cheaper. But who is only going to do one or two or five?

Cost of the Skill Tree in both C-Bills and XP need to be given a hard look and adjusted downward.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

WolvesX, on 10 February 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

Just look at this! 2,6 mios for all those modules!

360 = 6.000.000
Seismic = 6kk
Sensor = 2kk
Target Decay = 6kk
Radar derp = 6kk
Target Info = 4kk
---

THATS 30 MILLIONS

(zoom =2kk)

... and you still have 65 skill points left!

---

The real fight should be about the respec costs. They need to go.

And obviously the balance of the nodes isn't perfect and that you have to take nodes you don't want is bad too.

If they change it that you can just take the nodes you want, would be better also.

TROLL FOUND... quick we need to kill it with fire before it spawns more!!!!!

[Skribs]

Just curious, are there people with over 100 Mechs that have every mech kitted out with modules and everything?

For me, it's all of it.

1) Initial C-Bill cost: when I'm leveling a Mech, I use the C-Bills to either build my next Mech or to try new things. If I'm spending those C-Bills on upgrades, I can't do that.
1A) As mentioned before, the basic skills were free. Modules I've already purchased are "free" for other Mechs. Plus, you can win modules in caches and such. However, now you *have* to buy modules for your Mech.
2) Increase in XP cost. It takes less XP to master each Chassis, but if you want a second Mech of that Variant or even that Chassis, now your costs are increased by a lot. It will cut down on a lot of the lesser-used versions of Mechs.
3) Respec cost. It should not exist.

Overall, if C-Bills are involved at all in the leveling process or if it takes more than 80k XP to master a Mech, I'm done with the game. I enjoy collecting Mechs and leveling them up, and this is a slap in the face to that playstyle.

[Felbombling]

Yup, I do agree with Gas on that point, for people who like multiple of the same chassis this system won't work out too well. I tend to stick with one or two Mechs per chassis, so my take is a little skewed. The two chassis that I will feel it the most are the Huntsman and the Cyclops. I kept seven Huntsman and four Cyclops from bundles I bought. For certain, I'll be selling off some Huntsman chassis... why keep them all? They don't help me for Faction play, and they'd otherwise cost me to maintain them.

[Reno Blade]

Speaking of the 3-to basic and elite...
If we could get a discount (say 33%) if we master one variant of a Chassis or even 66% for the same variant (e.g. 2nd Mech of tha same variant you already mastered), then the whole "grind" would be much less AND you would have a reason to play multiple variants of the same chassis (e.g HBK-4P and a HBK-4G) or even multiples of the same variant (e.g. 2x HBK-4P).

For people with Special variants (e.g. invasion, or collectors packs), where you always got a S variant and the standard variant, so you already have a duplicate, this way you would have some USE for the duplcate variant AND get a discount to incentivizes the use of both variants.

[Kaeb Odellas]

I have 4 years worth of mastered mechs that will suddenly be no longer mastered. That sucks.

If I want to master them again, I have to grind out tens of thousands of XP and spend 9.1 million for each of them. That ultra sucks.

[M1Combat]

I don't think that's quite how it works Kaeb... You'll get a large amount of CBills back as refunds for many things and you'll use that plus the refunded XP to remaster your mechs. The issue is that especially if you generally switch modules instead of buying new ones then you'll not have enough Cb to master all that you used to have mastered. BUT... those that you do will ALL have the modules (points spent in module skills) they need.

Don't get me wrong... I'm on the fence on this thing but I just want to make sure people aren't misunderstanding what's actually happening.