10 replies to this topic

[Rofl]

Here's my concept for the weapon skills trees and how to convert the 10 trees into 3 with pretty much all the current node options plus others like impulse and flamer/MG nodes.

The concept is based on the LoL/WoW skill trees in that a lower node is locked until the prereq node has at least 1 point in it AND the tier above it has at least 5 points in it. For MG, Flamer, and NARC there's really not many options in this concept but hey at least it's there.

I know it's kind of confusing, I wrote it on scratch paper then imported to txt, so its not going to be pretty.

The [0/5] refers to how many points you can put in a node. What the value is per node would probably coorelate to whatever the current nodes I, II, III, IV, V are for similar mechanics, and those without nodes in the current system would just be linear increase in whatever category (ie impulse would be 2%, 4%, 6% etc or something like that)

I've had to modify certain weapons to make the end-tier nodes interesting, and I've intentionally left it vague so people can offer their input. For instance the end-tier PPC node referring to ECM, maybe PPCs by default dont have ECM countering and this node unlocks it, or maybe it just makes the ECM counter default ability better. Whatever you want.

It's by no means perfect but I believe offers better customization options.

I really wanted to redo the other non-weapon trees in a similar fashion but this was my proof of concept.

[Rofl]

2nd set of tree consolidation, turns 7 trees into 2:

[Rofl]

Another possibility with a simplified branching tree like this is it opens up a lot easier per-chassis nodes, for instance on centurions they could have a branch off of the SHIELD ARM node for even better armor bonus on the "shield" arm, or for Cyclops specialized sensors branching off something in the sensor range tree.

[Fox2232]

1 point to unlock next layer within weapon type => Yes, it is organized and not as wasteful as now.
5 points forced per tier? No, I may want to SRM boat occasionally and I may consider that more than one point in either SRM Spread or SRM Velocity is big waste.

Approach to tree design is nice and clean. Much cleaner than what we have. And visually more pleasing.

[Skribs]

Fox2232, on 10 February 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

1 point to unlock next layer within weapon type => Yes, it is organized and not as wasteful as now.
5 points forced per tier? No, I may want to SRM boat occasionally and I may consider that more than one point in either SRM Spread or SRM Velocity is big waste.

Approach to tree design is nice and clean. Much cleaner than what we have. And visually more pleasing.

It's still far less punishing than the current version.

[MechaBattler]

I like it.

Although. Still the issue of multi weapon builds being less effective than boating builds. Unless the weapon trees have their own point pool. Then it's all gravy.

[Rofl]

MechaBattler, on 10 February 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

I like it.

Although. Still the issue of multi weapon builds being less effective than boating builds. Unless the weapon trees have their own point pool. Then it's all gravy.

I don't know how I'd assign pools, but obviously if you took a ton of nodes in weapons you'd have to cut points somewhere else, like defensive/sensor perks. Gotta have balance somewhere.

In the current live version of the game, the current PTR version, and my modified tree version, multi-weapon builds are also not as capable as boating builds as far as quirks/perks/nodes whatever you call them. That's just an intrinsic aspect of boating. This however doesn't consider that their super specialized builds often have flaws, like SRM boats having no long range weapons, or LRM boats getting wrecked in melee.

I don't really see a problem in super specializing in that sense.

Edited by Rofl, 10 February 2017 - 01:08 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Rofl, on 10 February 2017 - 12:55 PM, said:

I don't know how I'd assign pools, but obviously if you took a ton of nodes in weapons you'd have to cut points somewhere else, like defensive/sensor perks. Gotta have balance somewhere.

If you boat just one weapon type. You don't have to.
If you're running two. Double the investment in weapons. For the same performance as boating one. It's a big disadvantage to use more than one under this or PGI's version.

[Skribs]

MechaBattler, on 10 February 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

If you boat just one weapon type. You don't have to.
If you're running two. Double the investment in weapons. For the same performance as boating one. It's a big disadvantage to use more than one under this or PGI's version.

Lumping weapons into one tree would fix most of this particular problem.

[Rofl]

MechaBattler, on 10 February 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

If you boat just one weapon type. You don't have to.
If you're running two. Double the investment in weapons. For the same performance as boating one. It's a big disadvantage to use more than one under this or PGI's version.

Aside from just taking away weapon quirks in nodes or somehow penalizing boating which goes over so well (read: Ghost heat), I'm not sure that there is a way around it.

I have a few 'boat' mechs but they all have backup weapons of some sort, and currently they don't have weapon modules for those backups. If a mech has more than 2 types of 'primary' weapons, then it may be having the opposite problem of boating and instead overgeneralizing.

Skribs, on 10 February 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

Lumping weapons into one tree would fix most of this particular problem.

That's one option, make the 3 optimized weapon trees above into one giant tree, but depending on how many points you give them it may backfire as well. The point in tier based trees like this is so people don't end up with a lot of end-tier nodes unlocked.

It's worth considering however.

Another issue that might arise from that is unintentionally (or maybe intentionally) punishing boat builds that carry only 1 weapon type by either forcing them to mix things like lasers and PPCs in an all energy build against their wishes or having unspent points in the trees.

Edited by Rofl, 10 February 2017 - 01:22 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Rofl, on 10 February 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

Aside from just taking away weapon quirks in nodes or somehow penalizing boating which goes over so well (read: Ghost heat), I'm not sure that there is a way around it.

I have a few 'boat' mechs but they all have backup weapons of some sort, and currently they don't have weapon modules for those backups. If a mech has more than 2 types of 'primary' weapons, then it may be having the opposite problem of boating and instead overgeneralizing.



That's one option, make the 3 optimized weapon trees above into one giant tree, but depending on how many points you give them it may backfire as well. The point in tier based trees like this is so people don't end up with a lot of end-tier nodes unlocked.

It's worth considering however.

Yeah. Universal weapon skill points. But you include specialization skill points as well. Like gauss charge. Jam chance reduction. And so on. So you still have some choices to specialize your build. It just won't be as punishing if you have more than one weapon.