42 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

Jables McBarty, on 27 February 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

Can't tell if you are replying to me or MischiefSC? My argument is basically the same--other fundamental things need to change, though I like the direction it is going in.

i dont think i was replying to anyone really. that was some days ago so i dont remember, i normally quote my replies.

Edited by LordNothing, 27 February 2017 - 04:00 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Jables McBarty, on 27 February 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

In the several weeks since first posting this I've also noticed an increase in wait times. And it seems that the novelty has worn off for pugs, so there are fewer of them.

The problem with this statement? Most people with half and idea about FP - Called this issue back in Nov, no sooner than a few weeks after FP4.1 launch. Yet it was not even touched upon in the first round table, totally missed.

How? I just dunno.

Most people with their finger on the pulse knew what was going to happen, it was inevitable. The fact PGI totally missed it, didn't see it... Just shows they don't understand what is needed to actually fix FP, make it a really bangin' game mode that it absolutely can be.


The real issues never get discussed, most of it is band-aid solutions that give you a perk up for 2-3 months and then nothing, again.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 27 February 2017 - 07:04 PM.

[VitriolicViolet]

yeah while phase 3 sucked and decreased the amount i play, 4.1 killed it i think i might have 4 games in CW since 4.1.
I think the worst thing they did was add QP maps. from the few games i played it was terrible, everyone simply did what they do in QP but 4 times in a row.

The problem is no depth and repeated mistakes which take to long to fix (The Dong). That is why population is a problem its why i dont play, i was a Kurita loyalist. Really if PGI could rollback to before The Dong and then implement some of the ideas relating to makeing planets and factions meaningful i think the population would return at least a bit.

[MNML86]

Jables McBarty, on 27 February 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

In the several weeks since first posting this I've also noticed an increase in wait times. And it seems that the novelty has worn off for pugs, so there are fewer of them.

My anecdotal experience has been to queue up for ~10 minutes then switch to QP. If I do get a match, it tends to be ~8 man on one team, the other is mostly pugs who crumble.

1) Balance is still in the eye of the beholder. My friend who I play with always complains about how OP the IS are. I try to correct him but you'll always have these perceptions.

2) Binaries vs. Lances could be fun, but it would then throw off all balance in the QP arena, and since that's 90% of the game's content, I doubt they'd even try it. They could do something where different rules and quirks apply to FP and QP, but I don't think that'd go over well with the player base, mostly because it wouldn't be communicated well in game.

Well people get tired of being targets. Games are supposed to be fun, it got frustrating for most of them.

Actually the Binaries vs. Lances should only be for FP though since for QP the teams are mixed clanners and IS.

Did they need to nerf or quirk by the way? Was the gap too much to be covered by numbers?

From lore clan tech is supposed to be OP, IS countered by tactics and greater numbers. A hundred years of research will result in a tech gap. Just that IS is used to war rather than honor duels and has far greater resources, manpower and Industrial capacity to throw at the clans. A clan cluster can destroy one IS regiment only to find another two on the way.

R.I.P. Smoke Jaguars They quickly got annihilated when they got attacked by mostly Kuritan, some Fedcom and Comguard Regiments. When the IS task force reached their home world the other clans did not want to get involved.

[MischiefSC]

Why a OP clans vs more numerous IS absolutely will not work and will never, ever happen (as well as why it was an abject failure even in TT and abandoned by the developers in favor of 1 to 1 balance) has been gone over repeatedly.

At one time FW was full of unit players. Thousands and thousands. In FW 1 we would have 20 drops with no wait and rarely see pug only teams.

People didn't leave because of teams - they left because the depth and purpose they wanted from FW was missing and never provided. Getting people back into FW isn't going to be the result of more amputations of content - we're back to the same waits we had in FW 3 only with irrelevant factions (which drove the loyalists out) and a worse put experience.

One bukkit fixed nothing. Adding more modes was good. Removing choices, depth and content "to get faster matches" is a lie. Just gives you less people which makes for longer waits sooner or later.

Any change that isn't about adding depth, purpose and content to bring people back is another exercise in failure.

Edited by MischiefSC, 01 March 2017 - 07:25 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Long Tom tactical nuke killed phase 3.

A lot of group just stopped dropping FW and moved onto something else, either MRBC or another game.

[Deathlike]

Many people (especially PGI) ignored the foundational reasons why FP/CW wasn't successful. You have to make the mode fun, enjoyable, and deep... NONE of which was accomplished from the onset... and we keep talking about side issues that made it unfun (Long Tom, Ghost Drops, Bad Dropzones in early FP versions).

So, as long as we continue to talk about irrelevant things outside of "what makes FP drops bad" is where we'll continue to solve nothing except patching up minor failures and gripes instead of the core issues with this mode.

[justcallme A S H]

Yep, spot on.

MNML86, on 01 March 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

Actually the Binaries vs. Lances should only be for FP though since for QP the teams are mixed clanners and IS.

Did they need to nerf or quirk by the way? Was the gap too much to be covered by numbers?

From lore clan tech is supposed to be OP, IS countered by tactics and greater numbers. A hundred years of research will result in a tech gap. Just that IS is used to war rather than honor duels and has far greater resources, manpower and Industrial capacity to throw at the clans. A clan cluster can destroy one IS regiment only to find another two on the way.

My LORE antennai are going wild...

Sorry, but that idea is not functional in any way.

[Wildstreak]

Last time I played FP was around March/April 2016.
Don't see myself coming back.

[MNML86]

MischiefSC, on 01 March 2017 - 07:24 PM, said:

Why a OP clans vs more numerous IS absolutely will not work and will never, ever happen (as well as why it was an abject failure even in TT and abandoned by the developers in favor of 1 to 1 balance) has been gone over repeatedly.

Why will it not work and will never, ever happen? What has gone over repeatedly?

justcallme A S H, on 01 March 2017 - 07:38 PM, said:

Sorry, but that idea is not functional in any way.

What would the issues be?

I am sure people realise that the gameplay is currently clan trial style.

What would be the suggestion to make FP fun for new/casual players. Since some people say the game is balanced (even though the clans are winning planets and trials like its nothing) [the data is available if you want to look][or you can just look at the map] and some are not interested in the lore.

Note: Newbies are not new walking targets, they are the new lifeblood of MWO. Unless of course you buy thousands of dollars worth of MC by yourself each month to support the game then okay. You can decide how the game goes as one of the sponsors without regard for others.

Edited by MNML86, 01 March 2017 - 10:58 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Table top rules cannot apply to a FPS. That is simply just how it works. So let go of it for a second and this FPS.
10 v 12 is not balanced, there for the game is not balanced/even.

The biggest issue with MWO as a FPS is the IS XL. If you fix that, the majority of the balance issues are actually gone. Yes there are other minor things (on both sides) but it's pretty much fixed right there and then.


Clans are not winning planets mate. When we were IS for 4 weeks (basically all of Jan) Clan hardly won a phase in US or Oceanic. It was a stalemate. I know a few units have gone IS again this week, so I would imagine the stalemate to resume for 2-3 weeks.

Quite simply - FP is not for new players. The warning screen clearly says it's more competitive, more team work, optimised builds (ie. META). Until new players get on-board with that, they are in many ways only hurting themselves.


The lifeblood of MWO is not newbies. It's the people that spent money on the game, that get into league play/promote the game etc etc. How long said player has been around is irrelevant. I've spent $350 AUD on this game and I know so many who have spent WAAY more than I have. Most games I spend $70 AUD and that's it.

I enjoy MWO, I enjoy the community, but PGI is promising the world and delivering a rusty bathtub every, single, time.

[Carl Vickers]

10v12 has been tried and didnt work even with tech superiorty, 12 players beat 10 due to numbers and pin point accuracy. It has been tested multiple times, just so you know.

[MNML86]

Carl Vickers, on 02 March 2017 - 12:30 AM, said:

10v12 has been tried and didnt work even with tech superiorty, 12 players beat 10 due to numbers and pin point accuracy. It has been tested multiple times, just so you know.

Ah, I see thank you for telling me. Matches with the lore, though the numbers were more regiments than lances.

justcallme A S H, on 01 March 2017 - 11:35 PM, said:

The biggest issue with MWO as a FPS is the IS XL. If you fix that, the majority of the balance issues are actually gone. Yes there are other minor things (on both sides) but it's pretty much fixed right there and then.


Clans are not winning planets mate. When we were IS for 4 weeks (basically all of Jan) Clan hardly won a phase in US or Oceanic. It was a stalemate. I know a few units have gone IS again this week, so I would imagine the stalemate to resume for 2-3 weeks.

The lifeblood of MWO is not newbies. It's the people that spent money on the game, that get into league play/promote the game etc etc. How long said player has been around is irrelevant. I've spent $350 AUD on this game and I know so many who have spent WAAY more than I have. Most games I spend $70 AUD and that's it.

I enjoy MWO, I enjoy the community, but PGI is promising the world and delivering a rusty bathtub every, single, time.

Will fixing the IS XL engine really solve most of the problems? What will the benefits be? Beside of course it being no longer a death sentence when equipping it. Extra two weak CTs is no fun.

A stalemate? Really? Then the current map would be because?

Newbies are the New lifeblood of MWO. I don't think the game can be sustained merely by the old players. As you yourself have have stated that you spend $70 AUD at most. We need new players to spend their $70 AUD to keep things going.

Well if PGI listens and carries it out well that will be a nice change.

[justcallme A S H]

So what other major balance issues exist aside from IS XL from your point of view?

cUAC - nerfed hard (large)
cLPL - nerfed (medium)
Clan XL heat - nerfed (small)

And this is in the last 2 months or so. Clans have taken a good hit.
PPFLD potarts still need attention, but that is it really.


Yes stalemate. If Clan was winning every cycle the planets would be WAY deeper than they are now after 4 months of FP4.1

I've spent more than 5 new users. Who is more important? The guy wanting to spend money. NOT the 3 month transient gamer.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 02 March 2017 - 01:58 AM.

[MNML86]

justcallme A S H, on 02 March 2017 - 01:57 AM, said:

So what other major balance issues exist aside from IS XL from your point of view?

cUAC - nerfed hard (large)
cLPL - nerfed (medium)
Clan XL heat - nerfed (small)

And this is in the last 2 months or so. Clans have taken a good hit.
PPFLD potarts still need attention, but that is it really.


Yes stalemate. If Clan was winning every cycle the planets would be WAY deeper than they are now after 4 months of FP4.1

I've spent more than 5 new users. Who is more important? The guy wanting to spend money. NOT the 3 month transient gamer.

I am not asking you sarcastically I am asking you literally what the benefits are and why is the map's the way it is now.

Regarding your last statement:-
1. How do you know you are spending that much?
2. Are you going to spend more than your $70 AUD and continue to do so until this game stops being available?
3. Can PGI survive on just the current paying player base with all these increases in running costs?
4. Is PGI going to expand/ increase content?

It is better to get more paying players regardless of the type they are.

If there is one of you is its okay but it's even better if there are ten of you.

The only way to get these new sources of funds is through new players.
PGI must find ways to attract and keep these new players to survive.

Edit: spelling and grammar

Edited by MNML86, 02 March 2017 - 03:24 AM.

[iLLcapitan]

We gained smth like 16 planets the last 2 weeks as clans, while it seems significantly harder to even get close to that number on IS side. I don't rly care too much about planets, but at least it gave us some sort of incentive to grind through the qp modes every day quickly.

As far as I'm concerned PGI gave in to the vocal group of players not playing CW. While the qp maps/modes are (mostly) a welcomed change, it drove some of the diehard invasion fans off. I miss invasion too, even if we rush qp, pushing for objectives and stuff, it seems we get to invasion maybe 1-2 hours prior to the reset. So maybe reduce the amount of qp matches needed to reach invasion.

Domination doesn't work the way its implemented - up the timer, several smaller areas to hold, anything idk for sure - but it needs some attention.

I still believe the players are there, but most can't be arsed to play currently, so:
- LOVE for the loyalists, hell why are we still talking about this. Give away more digital (free) stuff, add new career trees, anything rly. Cant be that hard.
- Add a cap on group size (8?), so pugs get incorporated into groups. This needs some more refinement, I know.
- Big groups need a way to find each other, I'm tired of beeig accused of seal clubbing when we have ZERO means to determine who we play against. If 2 big groups are willing to play, field them against each other regardless of faction meaning clan vs clan, etc. Call such battles 'trial of whatever' (clan) and 'border skirmish' (IS), done.
- Better ingame social tools are needed badly.


Maybe PGI even takes a look at the mercenary sourcebook; many ways of rating units/ adjusting rewards/ ways of make even small units having an impact on the scenario. Let the community provide you with flavour texts to flesh out the barren mode, its rly no magic.

Edited by iLLcapitan, 02 March 2017 - 03:01 AM.

[The Basilisk]

The main problems of everything related to a MW title was, is and will always be the diversity of its community and to balance the sometimes quite opposing needs of the different factions of this community.

With MWO beeing a strict multiplayer PvP only title in contrary to the previous titles, there has been introduced a new source of problems for the franchise:
Competitive shooter gamers.

As we can see in this thread allone the outright hostile tune towards their more casual oriented fellow players of some of the posters proudly presenting their "top tier" designators hints on a quite loud and intense fraction of the playerbase.

During the start of MWO most closed beta testers where either long time fans of the MW series or the Battletech universe in general.
While sometimes divided about how true to lore and TTrules the game should be and if thats feasible at all their main goal is quite easy to sum up.
The game should be fun to play by itself.

And there you have the main problem for PGI to make an allaround enjoyable game mode for all players.
"Fun to play" versus fun by dominating other players by any means even if this requires to exploit the sh.. out of every unwanted game mechanic that is to be found.

To me those two sides seem completely incompatible.

Edited by The Basilisk, 02 March 2017 - 03:12 AM.

[iLLcapitan]

Tired of this - guys that don't want to compete vs real humans and that are just in to get their nostalgia kicks will get served well by the 2 upcoming BT titles. Bring all your joysticks.

Believe it or not, practicing with your unit, finding better loadouts, better ways to synergize is fun for some people. That's exactly what this mode is designed for, teamplay vs other human pilots. Trying to make everybody happy results in the current #nofish #nomeat situation we have now.

Going down that road, making CW more competitive could be its only saviour.

Edited by iLLcapitan, 02 March 2017 - 03:15 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

iLLcapitan said:

As far as I'm concerned PGI gave in to the vocal group of players not playing CW. While the qp maps/modes are (mostly) a welcomed change

In simple terms - this. Exactly this.

PGI did what people "wanted" and 2 months later, said people have thrown in the towel because they wanna "LORE" or "LRM" or just "anyoldcrapbuildtheywant".

This is the worst part. Many cried, got what they wanted, then stopped playing once they realise the level of ability require basic teamwork.

Poor for overall TBH.

[justcallme A S H]

1. My bank statement
2. Am i going to spend more than my $350 AUD right now? Now. I've had enough of PGI (Russ's) disgraceful attempts at FP
3. Yes it can. MWO has no doubt been pillaged to pay for MW5. Look into Transverse - if you want a TRUE picture of PGI.
4. Unlikely. Based on what FP3 and FP4.1 were over the last 12 months - PGI clearly doesn't understand, nor care, what players want. They are just apply a band-aid fix and promise new stuff within "90days", which is the company standard mantra for all deliverables. Even if they take 3 years and don't get delivered.