50 replies to this topic

[TooDumbToQuit]

I thought and for months have tried to prove that being with the others and "sharing armor" and having weapons to shoot long range to match the LRMs was the way to go. And to try to only shoot LRMs within 4-600 meters and use a TAG.

I now consider a lot of that semi-BS.

If you are LRMing, that is fire support, MWO's version of artillery.

So stay behind the mechs in front and support them. But if you are killed trying to stand in the open firing on a Timberwolf and he kills you and you have 80% of your LRMs left, that is a mistake. An LRM users job is to fire as many of his missiles as possible.

Yes, I'm now firing at 900 meters. But I'm also firing smart. Assaults first but if someone is in trouble, I'll fire on a Light also. Look and make sure your missiles are doing damage, if not, change targets. Finding and changing to the right target at the right time is important. And look and see if your missiles are going over buildings etc, if not, move.

With an extra range module, I've killed mechs at over 1000 meters because they were standing still trying to snipe at me.

One big point I want to make is if you die before you fire most of your missiles, you have not done your job.

Yesterday in a game, a guy that died first bitched at me and a couple of others the whole game. If I was not so busy I would have turned him off. He "protected us" and we did not help him blah blah. I'm using a IS Mech and cannot hurt anything close so I'm careful not to get too close and almost every game, someone tries to charge me.

So all my lasers etc are short range now. I use mostly LRM 5's and I fire all of them at once so they are a tight flight.

Two of these kills were by laser including the last one which was a long duel with a Hunchback. And that guy was bitching the whole time, lol.

[Rogue Jedi]

if it works for you then great, but I have found LRMs to be next to useless without line of sight or a competant spotter ^{(e.g. someone to tell you do not shoot Delta, it is behind high cover, Echo is in the open, that sort of thing)}

For me LRMs work best as direct fire ^{(with line of sight, and preferably my own TAG on target)} preferably at 200-400m, max of 600, much further and travel time makes them useless ^{(the enemy gets to cover or breaks the lock before the missiles get there)}, unless you know that the target will not reach cover ^{(again needs line of sight or a good spotter)}

[Tiamat of the Sea]

One issue here is that 'stand at 4-600m' is not the same as 'stand in the open', and the word 'stand' should probably not be used at all.

When running LRM support and firing your LRMs, you really REALLY should not ever be standing still for very long, and you should be near or behind cover- so that you have protection both from enemies maneuvering to get shots on you and from enemy LRMs. Standing in the open (or slowly plodding across high-visibility open terrain) is always a horrible idea unless your whole team is doing it as part of a charge (and even then it's usually only an okay idea).

I've run one of my two Stalkers as LRM primary almost since I first started playing the game a couple (three? I don't recall exactly) years ago. It has, of course, a full suite of four medium and two large pulse lasers for a complete secondary weapon suite as well. When driving it, I don't fear taking occasional shots from enemy forces. I do, however, advance intelligently through sheltered terrain or from cover to cover while launching missiles, and I try to stay relatively close to the group. I never, ever stand so far away that I couldn't reasonably use my lasers to help my teammates. If nothing else, you want to be close enough to help other assaults scrape off light harassers or to roll in front of damaged allies to catch an enemy push.

In short, they're not wrong, but you aren't either- at least not outright. Try to be more flexible than either of those viewpoints.

Certainly shoot your LRMs at extreme range while you're closing with the enemy, just to keep heads down and/or contribute damage, but don't stay at that extreme range the whole match, you lose a lot of opportunities that way and can easily be ruined by someone sneaky diverting around your team's formation.

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 11 February 2017 - 09:44 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Im sorry, but So much of that post is just plain wrong and I can fully understand your teammate bitching about protecting you while you were being a useless leach in the eyes of the rest of the team.

Sharing armour does not mean you stand in the open for the whole enemy team to all shoot at you at the same time. It means being visible, but close to cover so that you can let someone else take damage if you become the focus target. Inversely you can also stay visible while someone else is focus target and hope that one or 2 opponents change targets to you and thus giving your teammate a slight breather.

Apart from that... 500 damage in an LRM assault is nothing even remotely special. If you were out of ammunition... then you should have theoretically been able to do double and close to tipple that amount of damage if every rocket had hit. Just from the damage on your screen, plus the fact that half of the kills were with your lasers as per your post.... I can guess that 70-90% of all your LRMs were exploding uselessly in the air or on the side of an obstacle.

The problem is that LRMs deal a lot of damage while needing help from others. These LRM players think themselves justified in their gameplay, just because they deal large amounts of damage... Big damage does not equal well aimed damage.

I have seen a few really good LRM players (not a single one of them ever played in an Assault btw.) and the main feature that was seen throughout every one of them is that they got their own locks, saw what they were shooting and always kept moving to reposition for better shots or cover from certain opponents while still seeing their prey.

[Koniving]

Aim... in the direction of the enemy. Preferably with a lock but this is unnecessary.
Ensure that missile doors are open if applicable (may suffer ghost heat even when chain firing if they are not).
Ensure that tubes are pointed in the general direction of the enemy as well, do not point your missiles tubes at yourself or your allies.
Fire.
If you have achieved a lock, continue to aim and maintain it for the entire duration of the missile flight in order to maintain tracking.

Success! You have learned how to successfully use...wait...why are your missiles turning around? You didn't just lock your foot as your target, did you? Oh boy....

------------------

Short version: Choose your class.

Medium LRM user.

Spoiler

Heavy LRM boat.

Spoiler

Truly dedicated Heavy LRM boat.

Spoiler

LRM boat (assault)

Spoiler

LRM brawler(assault)

Spoiler

Long version: (May as well be a one stop shop) <--If you only watch one video this will be the most useful one.

First match is for true beginners. Second is for somewhat more advanced goodness.

More advanced goodness being positioning, relocation, etc.

Edited by Koniving, 11 February 2017 - 11:34 AM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Two of these kills were by lasers. Including the last one that WON the game. I did not post the game for the damage, it was for the four kills and for me being the last one standing. KMDDs are the most important stat for me.

That clown could not defend himself let alone me, I never saw him. He was bitching at someone else till he died and I was alone.

I always use a TAG and always find my own locks, I've never asked for one.

But when I'm in my Night Gyr I'm ducking and finding cover while shooting UACS/Gauss etc so why expect an LRM mech to stand in the open and use a DOT weapon?

My point is to shoot from cover and survive to the "endgame".

I keep my 3 LRM mechs fast and I stay with the group, I can't stand the ones that sit back and never move. But I've stopped trying to be an LRM mech and a gunfighter at the same time. And with my 3 LRM mechs being IS ones, I cannot allow to get that close.

[Koniving]

I confess I didn't read the post originally.

The right way is whatever works for you and still benefits the team.

Sometimes they are slow but heavily loaded. Sometimes they are fast and quick to run out. If you are slow you MUST have a way to defend yourself.

Second line mechs tend to ask for assistance in acquiring locks if their builds are somewhat fragile. However, ideally an LRM boat won't need to ask for help in getting locks. Instead, the boat should offer to provide support against targets that they are focusing.
Like this. The guy never asked us to get locks. He just provided support.

Notice no one asked for locks. The missiles just come and they are much appreciated.

A way to address it is this:
"LRM support here; Spot an enemy, I'll make it rain."
"The chef's here. Use E to spot an enemy and I'll pepper 'em nice and good, like a momma used to make minced 'Mechs!"
"Want 'em softened? Lemme know and I'll shower your target."

=====
For fun... (Edit: Fixed link to the very first LRMs...)

Spoiler

Light LRM'ing.... from closed beta (I don't have anything more modern.)
I miss these missiles.

The good old days of Repair and Rearm, the LRMs with less of an arc (the original ones came straight down on you), cheap builds for fast cash grabs... Dang good reason to run lights back then.


Shame you can't do this.

Edited by Koniving, 11 February 2017 - 11:58 AM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I'm also having what I thought was server issues, which turned out to be on my end. And I thought it had been figured out but now I have to wait till Monday for a Cable guy because I'm not allowed to touch it......

This is why I'm playing my LRM mechs.

So I'm disconnecting and "transporting", lol. So yea, I only had 500 damage and four kills, but I also came back from a disconnect. It is not fair to the other players so I'm going to stop playing till the Comcast guy comes.

Trust me, I'm normally the guy annoying others with the speech about how long it takes your LRMs to go so far and the chances of hitting. I've tested it after watching a Snuggles Times video.

But there are times when doing a little damage is better than doing no damage at all. And since I've been ending games with a lot of missiles, why not send a few "incoming missiles" chirping through their speakers, lol.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 11 February 2017 - 12:39 PM.

[snipercam7]

I've found moderate success (though I am a noob, so YMMV) with a Hunchback 4J build running LRM10s and missiles backed out the arse. I run out of ammunition almost routinely despite bringing 1.8k missiles. I've found sometimes the best route is to just take a few potshots that you know are going to miss, since the "Warning: Missiles Incoming" does seem to suppress enemies somewhat. Take this with a large pinch of salt though, as it may simply be my tier, though I do group-drop a lot.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Grrrr, dropped again. I remember when I started the game I hooked up an LRM 5 with an ER LL just so they would hear that warning, lol.

[Roughneck45]

Honestly, if you are running LRMs, you HAVE to do two things. Make sure your missiles are landing, whatever distance you are firing from, and be with your team, not 700m away from the front lines. Mech presence can be enough to make the enemy second guess a push and as long as you aren't wasting ammo into buildings you can contribute.

Being aggressive, fighting at shorter distances, and getting your own locks will get you better scores but if you do the two things above you are stepping in the right direction.

Edited by Roughneck45, 11 February 2017 - 01:55 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I no longer have any Clan mechs with LRMs (well, maybe one...sometimes), And so I no longer get "too close" while piloting IS Mechs that use LRMs. For me, the important targets are enemy mechs in combat with my teammates. Then you are adding to the DPS put on an enemy mech along with a teammate or two. For me, that is a good part of the whole idea of using LRMs.

I seem to attract a lot of attention so I'm doing something right. The difference is that I no longer stand there taking AC rounds while sending back LRMs, the math simply does not work. I'm also really starting paying more attention to the weapons targets are carrying. So if I see an enemy mech with ACs or big lasers, I'm firing at him from over a hill. Because I can hit him and he cannot hit me.

Cover is a good thing

If the enemy Mech has short range lasers or SRMs I will come out and direct fire on him staying 200 or so meters away from his weapons distance. I'm playing my weapon which is the ONLY ONE that can go OVER cover.

And I do not have big launchers, the most I have on one is four LRM 5's. I find that 5's go right for the CT.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 11 February 2017 - 04:44 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

The idea of firing at close range isn't to stand in the open and fire at close range (in general standing in the open's horribly stupid decision) but instead you are to be poking as if you were using other weapon types such as gauss or lasers. Peek your cockpit above a hill's cover and get a lock for yourself then fire and get back in cover before the enemy shoots you.

Do this from 200-400m so that the enemy has no time to react before getting hit by like a 40 damage LRM alpha. Be sure to have about 30 points of laser damage up close for defending yourself against lights and for brawling with anyone who tries to run up on the LRM boat.

Doing stuff like this in my Mad Dog gets stuff like 1000 damage matches and 6 kills on good matches in the T1 queue. Its much much more reliable than firing from way back and doesn't require leeching off your teammates. It also works against competent enemies who would actually get to cover to dodge your LRMs if you're giving them 5+ seconds to do so at 1000m.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Dakota1000, on 11 February 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

Peek your cockpit above a hill's cover and get a lock for yourself then fire and get back in cover before the enemy shoots you.

The enemy has a ping of 2000 and oddly has his back towards you?

I mean it's a really nice sounding idea to expose yourself to enemies, shoot at one of them without them shooting at you and pull back, but how exactly you can do that?


On the topic in general, I think each have to find their own way. I shoot LRMs at all ranges, I fear not wasting missiless on most buiilds. Being aggressive, I think it helps, even if you got nothing but LRMs. I like my LRM boats to have a fast engine.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 11 February 2017 - 07:25 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Teer Kerensky, on 11 February 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

The enemy has a ping of 2000 and oddly has his back towards you?

I mean it's a really nice sounding idea to expose yourself to enemies, shoot at one of them without them shooting at you and pull back, but how exactly you can do that?

Its not that hard to do really. Enemy shots have travel time too, but their weapons don't also lock on. Gauss has charge up and lasers have durations. Its all just out trading the enemy. Sometimes they'll be looking in your direction in particular, but 90% of the time the enemy won't have their crosshairs right on you ready to fire.

People have reaction times, especially from unexpected situations, they have aiming times, shots have travel times, mechs have twist speeds. Time's on my side. Often times you can also fire at distracted enemies, such as ones currently trying to fire on different targets, which gives you time to lock on and gives you their entire cooldown time to get a shot off and get out.

In general I'm pretty well trained on shooting enemies without them hitting me (favorable trading) from playing poptarts, laser poke builds, ballistic boats, and basically every other mech that is direct fire. I don't have any issue bringing that ability over to LRM boats.

[IraqiWalker]

I'm not a LRM pro. I only have had a handful of mechs per weight class across my entire career that were LRM boats (including a BLR-1S monster LRMer)

However, I use the artillery method for heavy, and assault LRMs (only assault LRM I accept are BLR-1S, and STKs, personally. Most of the others are so much better up close and personal - an exception can be made for the Cyclops, but I still think it's better up close with SRMs). For those, I don't even pack a TAG for most of them. Active Probe is practically mandatory. I always try and have some back up weapons (for the BLR I had 4 MLs)

This is how I approached it for excellent results per weight class (By excellent, I mean good damage, and on more than one occasion making the enemy team believe we had more LRM boats than there actually were)

(I'm using IS lights as the measuring sticks, because for clans literally any mech with missiles hardpoints can be a LRM boat with a decent tube count)

Lights:

Spoiler

You are a mobile harasser. Your job is to flush people out of cover. Your payload is generally between 10 and 15 missiles per alpha, so it's not there to do immense damage. It's there to core them from the side, drive the enemy team into a raging bout of idiocy, and make them leave their cover. If any of you were here for the days of the Trollmando, you know what I'm talking about.

Move around a lot, lob missiles, and keep moving. You're the flanker that funnels the enemy team into the jaws of your team's guns.

Mediums:

Spoiler

Now you're starting to pack a decent pay load, generally 20-35 missiles per salvo. You can cause quite a few dents in the enemy's armor at a decent range. However, you're still very mobile. Use that, work with lights and other flankers (looking at you Dragon pilots), to hit the enemy from the sides, and deal a lot of damage to them. You're still there as a skirmisher though, so don't forget that and consider yourself a front line mech. You should never be more than a second line mech on your bravest of days.

Heavies:

Spoiler

Now we have big payloads 35-50 per salvo. These can wreck anyone's day real fast. You're not that mobile, so you should focus on being close to the front line, and showering anyone that peaks out of cover. You're probably packing some decent back up weapons, and can use them to suppress enemies. Your job is somewhere between suppressing the enemy team while yours closes in on them, and tanking some shots every now and then (don't get cocky. Everyone and their mom knows you're using an XL engine 99% of the time). This is probably the best weight class to use Artemis launchers, in my opinion since you've got the space, and tonnage, without having your speed, or payload crippled.

Assaults:

Spoiler

You're not a battlemech. Don't kid yourself. You're a mobile artillery platform. This is the hardest weight class to LRM boat effectively in, because it relies on knowing the map, and its airspace, very well, on top of relying on your teammates. You're too slow to relocate, and you're too fragile to be at the front line since you must be packing an XL engine (you can bet the enemy team will want to knock your 80+ tons out of the game real quick and in a hurry). Thus, you have to know not just which place to go to at the start of the match, but also which locations you can, and can't hit from that spot. Since you have to account for any intervening terrain along your missiles' flight path.

However, you make up for it by bringing an unholy amount of firepower down on your enemies. When played properly, you are an almost omni present force multiplier that makes any fight your team is engaged in swing to your favor. Your best friend is the TIG module, as it allows you to judge which mechs to focus first, as soon as possible.

Alongside lights, this the weight class least likely to benefit from Artemis, or TAG, in my opinion, since you're gonna be firing indirectly for about 80% of the time, if not more.

This is all from my personal experience, and is purely anecdotal. I don't know how the majority plays, or if I'm in it, or in the edge cases. However, this is how I played LRM boats, and still how I play them to this day. There might be a few tweaks to the playstyle for each weight class, but those would be my own personal quirks that I wouldn't recommend to everyone. So I tried to keep it close to general advice as best I could.


EDIT: I forgot to mention: On anything other than lights, and really speedy mediums, try not to fire at ranges above 600-650 meters. Use your own discretion of course. If an assault is out in the open at 800 meters, and there's no cover around, then shower them with love a.k.a. high explosive warheads of death.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 11 February 2017 - 08:45 PM.

[xe N on]

LikeUntoGod, on 11 February 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

I thought and for months have tried to prove that being with the others and "sharing armor" and having weapons to shoot long range to match the LRMs was the way to go. And to try to only shoot LRMs within 4-600 meters and use a TAG.

I now consider a lot of that semi-BS.

If you are LRMing, that is fire support, MWO's version of artillery.

The problem is: long range fire support can be done with any long range weapon system, using high hardpoints and clever positioning and fast medium/heavy mechs much better than with LRMs.

C-ERLL with modules and target computer or IS-ERLL with 10% rannge quirk and modules can reach out for 800+ meters and apply damage instantly. At this range your LRMs need seconds to reach the target. You have no change to back fire on those mechs with LRMs because they use hard cover for protection or even ECM. Exposure using high mounts is minimal, return fire next to none.

Best long range fire support mechs are e.g:
HBK-IIC-A with 4 C-ERLL
HBR with ECM and with 4 C-ERLL
Cicada with ECM and 3 ER-LL
Raven with ECM and 2-ERLL

comment: These are usually seen as "sniper" mechs, but in fact they are long range fire support.


So, in any case, LRMs boats are only superior if you have the right map as polar or arctic and a NARC-spotter.

Only resaon to take LRMs (and only as clanner because of weight) is as backup weapon for slow assaults that want to support fast skirmishers.

Edited by xe N on, 11 February 2017 - 11:41 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

LOL @ OP

... So, let me get this straight ... You are claiming that hiding behind your teammates and not sharing armor (i.e. having less mechs on your team facing more mechs on their team) in the most ineffective damage dealing mech is the proper way to play?

Yeah well, whatever. T5 ftw.

[Jankmon]

So I don't use LRM's any more other than the occasional ride in my Archer for laughs when I get sick of playing Polar Highlands for the 5th time in an evening and figure I will spend a game as one of the LRM leeches.

Having said that though I am generally confused at the hate for the LRM'ers. Now granted I'm still kind of new but it is a damn rare game where my MAD-IIC or even my Cheetah go down without usually missing both arms, at least one torso, and usually both. So the argument of LRM's not being targeted damage seems kind of a moot point, any player of at least middling skill will be torso twisting to spread the damage from all of those direct fire weapons. So what is the difference with LRM's?

On the standing back and not contributing to the over all armor front, I agree there but I see none LRM build assaults and heavies hanging FAR back only occasionally taking a pot shot all of the time. Usually they're the last one left on the team and I'm shoulder surfing watching as the 7-10 remaining mechs on the other team pummel them into dust as a team in a few seconds.

I don't know, again maybe I'm just too new to the game but I do not understand all of the hate on LRM's. I will say I dislike them as a deterrent to new players though, I hated the ever living **** out of LRM's as a new player before I got radar derp, after that no real problems.

[Ebins]

PhoenixFire55, on 13 February 2017 - 03:09 AM, said:

LOL @ OP

... So, let me get this straight ... You are claiming that hiding behind your teammates and not sharing armor (i.e. having less mechs on your team facing more mechs on their team) in the most ineffective damage dealing mech is the proper way to play?

Yeah well, whatever. T5 ftw.

How was this in any way constructive to the conversation? All I see dripping from your words is hubris and scorn. Elitist much?

At OP, I don't play LRMs myself, and for the most part don't worry about lrm boats (especially IS ones), but there are the few rare occasions where I come up across a really skilled mechwarrior with great support... and spend the whole match looking for cover. A lot of people here (minus the person I quoted) have offered some great advice. I hope it helps!

Edited by Ebins, 13 February 2017 - 07:37 AM.