150 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Alright, gentlemen. I'll ask again. Why can't we simply host our own roundtable discussion with one of the popular MWO Streamers as the host and then tweet to Russ that this will take place and make him aware of everything discussed - and then further discuss it on these forums or Reddit?

[Appogee]

cazidin, on 14 February 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Alright, gentlemen. I'll ask again. Why can't we simply host our own roundtable discussion with one of the popular MWO Streamers as the host and then tweet to Russ that this will take place and make him aware of everything discussed - and then further discuss it on these forums or Reddit?

You can do that I suppose.

But the better question is: why would you bother to do this...?

Edited by Appogee, 14 February 2017 - 09:29 AM.

[Alan Davion]

Appogee, on 14 February 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

When? I'm not aware of it ever actually being attempted.

AFAIK PGI simply didn't want to redo the matchmaker and team screens and that would accommodate 10v12.

I don't believe they ever actually tried it.

I'll admit I wasn't around at the time personally, but I recall several times where people had said that PGI tried implementing the 12v10 rule to try and give the IS a slight advantage against the Clans, but from what I gathered the matchmaker completely failed every time, giving literally every combination of numbers EXCEPT the required 12v10.

The 12v10 might have been one of PGI's earliest PTS', but because of either some limitation of the matchmaker, or PGI's ineptness I don't think we'll ever really know.

Lostdragon, on 14 February 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

It makes no sense to say 12v12 was added to give the IS an even footing with the Clans. 8v8 or 12v12 is still a 1:1 ratio so that logic is silly and I never recall PGI going down that rabbit hole.

I never said 12v12 was added to give the IS even footing. Go back and re-read what I wrote, very carefully.

[Appogee]

Probably Not, on 14 February 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

Second: I remember absolutely no such PTS, ever. I am not infallible, but even when I was relatively inactive here I was still doing some lurking and was catching occasional commentaries on YT.

I am certain there was never any PTS of 10 vs 12.

It was ruled out preemptively by PGI, IIRC because it would require too much recoding of the UI and they had no confidence it would work.

Many players also did not want to even try it.

[cazidin]

Probably Not, on 14 February 2017 - 09:24 AM, said:

Well, alright. What are our options again? Fantastic Tuesday, MoltenMetal, Shivaxi (maybe? Does he still MWO?), Snuggles Time, TheB33f... I'm sure there's at least a few more. How do we decide?

Honestly, I think Fantastic Tuesday or Kanajashi would make the best hosts. The B33F would make it entertaining but that could undermine the conversation, plus I don't know if he could even fit it in his schedule.

Appogee, on 14 February 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

You can do that I suppose.

But the better question is: why would you bother to do this...?

The answer is the same for why do this at all. We want to get our ideas noticed and brought to PGI. Russ is very unlikely to have a proper roundtable discussion. The last two Faction Warfare roundtables didn't produce much, did they? The first Russ was obsessed with his one true love of buckets, and the second I didn't even bother watching. Apparently not many did and whomever survived it had few notes of importance to make.

My hope would be that if it's player controlled that we can bring up points in a constructive and unimpeded fashion. We won't have questions softballed, like NGNG. If we come up with enough good ideas and if we can get Russ' attention we may even get an official response, or get Russ to join us for the second one.

If I streamed one, OK. First. How would I get anyone to follow me? I don't do anything on Twitch. Two. If I could get viewers, who would attend my meeting?

[Metus regem]

cazidin, on 14 February 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

The answer is the same for why do this at all. We want to get our ideas noticed and brought to PGI. Russ is very unlikely to have a proper roundtable discussion. The last two Faction Warfare roundtables didn't produce much, did they? The first Russ was obsessed with his one true love of buckets, and the second I didn't even bother watching. Apparently not many did and whomever survived it had few notes of importance to make.

I caught the end of the second one, and was filled with disgust at one of the suggestions, that Merc units, and only Merc units be able to use mixed drop decks...

If anything, it could be done so that at every 5 levels of faction loyalist rank you could add a weight class from the other faction, such as 5 = light, 10 = medium, 15 = heavy and 20 = assault, with the caveat that you could only ever have one mech from the opposite faction in your drop deck. For fluff reasons it could be seen as you are being rewarded for your service to your faction.

[cazidin]

Alright, well, since we can't really agree on who should lead the community-organized Roundtable, I'm taking that spot. Nobody else wants it, or at least, can't agree on who exactly should hold it so for now I will. The next order will be what to discuss. I'm going to let everyone have a few hours to propose ideas, and I'll read them all, and then try to compile and discuss them further.

Any objections?

[Metus regem]

Probably Not, on 14 February 2017 - 10:32 AM, said:

I guess. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Marik, Liao or Davion loyalists to even have ACCESS to Clan mechs (yet, anyway - after the timeline jump, Davion loyalists would be probably be swimming in Clan salvage), That said, Loyalist career path needs all the help it can get, regardless of affiliation...

You're telling me brother...

Offical time line would have FedCom doing fairly well with Clan Salvage, thanks to the Falcons and Wolves slugging it out with the AFFC in Lyran half of FedCom.... So the New Avalon Institute has Clan Tech to study...

[Alan Davion]

Probably Not, on 14 February 2017 - 10:32 AM, said:

I guess. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Marik, Liao or Davion loyalists to even have ACCESS to Clan mechs (yet, anyway - after the timeline jump, Davion loyalists would be probably be swimming in Clan salvage), That said, Loyalist career path needs all the help it can get, regardless of affiliation...

You forget that the Wolf's Dragoons, stationed on Outreach produced a limited number of Clan mechs, and as they were based very close to Davion, Liao and Marik space, it makes perfect sense for them to have access to Clan mechs.

Victor Davion and Hohiro Kurita piloted Dire Wolves for many years after receiving them on Outreach in late 3051.

[Oberost]

Probably Not, on 14 February 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

OK, first: so basically you heard from other people that it had been tried, you cannot verify yourself that it was ever tried.

Second: I remember absolutely no such PTS, ever. I am not infallible, but even when I was relatively inactive here I was still doing some lurking and was catching occasional commentaries on YT.

I remember this thing (10vs12) being tried in the past. I can't remember exactly in what conditions (probably in some kind of private matches), but I'm pretty sure that I remember this as being a thing...

[Alan Davion]

Probably Not, on 14 February 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

I guess? I mean, I would think that entails taking them from the Wolf's Dragoons as salvage, which is no mean feat, because IIRC the Wolf's Dragoons weren't exactly willingly SHARING their Clan/SLDF-era tech.

Wrong. You haven't read the Blood of Kerensky series lately I take it?

During their stint as Mercenaries starting in 3005 to 3030, you might have a point, except they essentially turned their backs on the Clans in 3029 when they made their last communication with them, the only exception to that being Natasha Kerensky as she returned to the Clans in 3050/3051.

But in the 20 years between 3030 and 3050 when they were on Outreach they were using the hidden Star League Industrial Complexes there to build Clan mechs both for themselves and for the Inner Sphere. But because they only had the one planet to build mechs on, they could only build a severely limited number and variety of Clan mechs.

The aforementioned Dire Wolves being prime examples. They probably built some Timber Wolves as well, beyond that I can't offer much speculation as to what other Clan mechs the Dragoon's could have built.

[Lupis Volk]

Don't forget 3060 is when the rasalhague/ghost bear dominion is formed.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 14 February 2017 - 11:33 AM.

[Metus regem]

Lupis Volk, on 14 February 2017 - 11:33 AM, said:

Don't forget 3060 is when the rasalhague/ghost bear dominion is formed.

And a bad time was had for the Combine.... seriously, just look at the history for the Ghost Bears, every time someone picks a fight with them, the Ghost Bears go and stomp a new mud hole in them...

Clan Wolf, over the whole not-named-Clan thingy...
Hell's Horses, for well being Clan Hell's Horses...
The Combine for picking a fight with the Ghost Bear Domnion
The WoB for nuking the Dominion...

[Alistair Winter]

This thread now has 7 pages and 125 replies. The last page seems to be mostly about Battletech lore.

[Lostdragon]

Alan Davion, on 14 February 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

I never said 12v12 was added to give the IS even footing. Go back and re-read what I wrote, very carefully.

Yeah, I quoted you and that is exactly what you said.

Quote

When the Clans were introduced it was necessary to go from 8v8 to 12v12. 8v8 worked because it was just IS v IS, but with how flipping OP the Clans are the IS would have needed more mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 February 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

Hey man, that hurts... I was only ever nice to him... and I got blocked for warning him of an incoming riot in the playerbase!

the tweets are so old, I can't even find them anymore... but I was never harassing or rude. Frustrated sure.

Dude.... reading. The post says MOST people Russ blocked.

[Johnny Z]

cazidin, on 14 February 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Alright, gentlemen. I'll ask again. Why can't we simply host our own roundtable discussion with one of the popular MWO Streamers as the host and then tweet to Russ that this will take place and make him aware of everything discussed - and then further discuss it on these forums or Reddit?

NGNG does this already in a way.

[cazidin]

Johnny Z, on 14 February 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

NGNG does this already in a way.

NGNG is paid by PGI. There's absolutely no conflict of interest.

[Alan Davion]

Lostdragon, on 14 February 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

Yeah, I quoted you and that is exactly what you said.

Yet aren't you forgetting one teensy-weensy, but ever so crucial little, tiny detail?

Alan Davion, on 14 February 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

2. How exactly was 12v12 forced on you? When the Clans were introduced it was necessary to go from 8v8 to 12v12. 8v8 worked because it was just IS v IS, but with how flipping OP the Clans are the IS would have needed more mechs.

They tried the 12v10 TT rule but it so utterly borked up the matchmaker they had to settle on 12v12 and then introduce quirks to IS mechs to bring them up high enough to have a snowballs chance in hell against the Clans.

I said that they needed to introduce Mech Quirks as well as the increase of numbers from 8v8 to 12v12.

You can't cherry pick my words to suit your argument. If you can't defend your argument against my full argument, then you have a rather weak argument don't you think?

That's why I said go back and re-read EVERYTHING I had said.

[Lostdragon]

Alan Davion, on 14 February 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

Yet aren't you forgetting one teensy-weensy, but ever so crucial little, tiny detail?



I said that they needed to introduce Mech Quirks as well as the increase of numbers from 8v8 to 12v12.

You can't cherry pick my words to suit your argument. If you can't defend your argument against my full argument, then you have a rather weak argument don't you think?

That's why I said go back and re-read EVERYTHING I had said.

That bit is completely irrelevant and doesn't make saying 12v12 was for balance any less wrong.