234 replies to this topic

[Monkey Lover]

Exard3k, on 13 February 2017 - 07:29 PM, said:

Never test things like crits and damage on mechs in the testing grounds. They got stock builds and everyone playing 3025-MWO knows that these explode regularly, esp. the Atlas-D with it's left torso (RT at a lesser degree but still). No CASE with several tons of ammo in the side torsos isn't a rare sight in 3025.

Never use stock mechs for these tests...get a buddy and do lobby tests to get accurate results on "real-world" mechs. Also armor values in testing grounds...most mechs barely have 50% armor. E.g. Cicada legs only have like 14pts or so.

OK but, this had nothing to do with a test.... Its showing the crit system we have always had. I dont like we can get weapons critted because someone brushes an er laser at 1800m at me.

Even if it didnt have the ammo in would have be down to 2 weapons after the second hit. This is the crit system they have in the pts.This should be accurate.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 13 February 2017 - 07:46 PM.

[MechaBattler]

I like their idea of HP based on slots. But perhaps the amount per slot is a tad light? I like the idea. Just need to increase HP a touch to see if we can find a balance where weapons aren't flying out of the mech the second the armor goes, but is still a factor of the game.

I also think this is an opportunity to add more stuff to the skill tree. Either in the form of crit reduction. Or HP increase skill.

Edited by MechaBattler, 13 February 2017 - 07:55 PM.

[Exard3k]

Monkey Lover, on 13 February 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

OK but, this had nothing to do with a test.... Its showing the crit system we have always had. I dont like we can get weapons critted because someone brushes an er laser at 1800m at me.

As modules always have an HP value and module is destroyed when it reaches 0, you can always have a situation where a single laser pulse destroys the module from like 0.5hp to 0.

edit: Same with cherry red CT where a brush from an ERLL can kill your mech.

Monkey Lover, on 13 February 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

Even if it didnt have the ammo in would have be down to 2 weapons after the second hit. This is the crit system they have in the pts.This should be accurate.

You know the exploding ammo basically kills everything in that component and transfers damage to other components, right? I see 2 modules destroyed by the first volley (50 dmg) which is fine, while the second volley basically are the 3 tons of missile ammo chain cascading and wrecking everything else.

Yeonne Greene, on 13 February 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

Okay, so I'll just shoot the legs of every ballistics-carrying IS 'Mech in the live game after this rolls out.

ggez?

Like you already do today. I've done this a lot with LRM mechs in small/medium mechs in the past. But don't worry about me....got no ammo in my legs/arms when driving IS mechs with ballistics People just adapt when they realize the ammo isn't in a protected spot and CASE is a 0.5ton disadvantage compared to clantech and sometimes necessary (Right now it's a useless module in almost every build I know).

edit: Clanmechs should worry about leg ammo as well. Can result in leg explosion although no damage transfers to torso.because of CASE

what does ggez mean?

Edited by Exard3k, 13 February 2017 - 08:39 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Snowbluff, on 13 February 2017 - 03:04 PM, said:

They're being replaced with armor anyway.

Explain that to the skill tree that includes structure buffs.

[oldradagast]

So, long story short, a buff for range and hiding behind rocks, tinkling people, in the hopes that their weapons all magically fall off the moment their armor is breached. Also, a buff for Clans because of the range advantage, targeting computers, and generally higher number of hardpoints. If IS mechs all had ARMOR buffs instead of now nearly-useless structural buffs, they'd still be competitive, but that's not to be since PGI still thinks keeping your torsos while being an weaponless hulk is somehow the same as playing a match and having fun.

This unnecessary change will punish weaker mechs (few hardpoints, useless structural buffs, etc.) harder and discourage brawling even more. Brilliant - that's clearly what the game needs.

Edited by oldradagast, 14 February 2017 - 04:19 AM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

If the PTS crits go live I'm not even going to bother with STD engines. No point in being alive with all armor on both arms and all three torsos gone, but because you spread that damage you have no guns.

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 14 February 2017 - 04:28 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Probably Not, on 13 February 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

Bit of a monkey's paw there. Of all the ways to increase TTK they're going to pick the one that's really not fun.

because too many people define "fun" with winning, and they are too lazy to adapt to the new situation of one or a few lost weapons.

I'n my opinion it's cool, because that is part a what a battle of attrition needs

[Bradigus]

Lily from animove, on 14 February 2017 - 04:30 AM, said:

because too many people define "fun" with winning, and they are too lazy to adapt to the new situation of one or a few lost weapons.

I'n my opinion it's cool, because that is part a what a battle of attrition needs

Then I hope you do not mind the targeting computer assisted laser crit fishers and machinegun lights that take out half your weapons before you even get to the main battle.

Have fun with that "battle of attrition" or whatever.

[Bud Crue]

Snazzy Dragon, on 14 February 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

If the PTS crits go live I'm not even going to bother with STD engines. No point in being alive with all armor on both arms and all three torsos gone, but because you spread that damage you have no guns.

I believe that is the whole point.
I think what they are doing here is in their eyes "fixing" the XL problem by simply making there be no reason to run standards, the illusion of extra survivability is now made clear...and thus there really is no reason to take a standard since even if you live your inevitably a stick...so who cares.

My guess is that PGI is once again trying to apply a broad based change that in their eyes affects everyone the same, across the board. While that is true in application, the resulting effect is in at least several modes the last mech standing will win and thus the clans are still at an advantage.

Of course if I am right, it still boggles the mind that they would consider this...this ultra-crits idea...as a solution to the XL problem. Then again if it isn't directed at the XL problem, then I'll be damned if I can think of any other reason for it other than to make the game less fun; and of course they wouldn't do that for no reason...would they?
Face palm indeed.

By the way, where are y'all getting that this is definitely coming into the live server? I looked around for a post and didn't see anything here or on twitter.

Edited by Bud Crue, 14 February 2017 - 04:43 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Bradigus, on 14 February 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

Then I hope you do not mind the targeting computer assisted laser crit fishers and machinegun lights that take out half your weapons before you even get to the main battle.

Have fun with that "battle of attrition" or whatever.

that sounds like the nonsense of someone not even knowing the mechanics, So when I come with my NVA, how many HP do my 6 lasers per arm have? Surely not more than the arm itself.

Weapons do hardly explode currently because the damage you have to do to them is often as much as the component has itself. And I don't even know how lights prevent you from getting t the main battle with mg's LOL, ever heard of twisting, those mg damage is still low and they would need a lot time to chew throuhg armor and I will surely shoot back and scrap them hard before they coem through my armor. So no idea what game, but surely I am not playing the not "walking by" warrior you seem to play. How cna people shoot your armor off without you being part of the main battle and tearing their armor too? Really I would like you to explain me how you get into this theoretical situation without being the pilots fault.

Mcgral18, on 13 February 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

Well, ACTUALLY, Gauss and PPCs still one shot any 7.5 HP item (cERPPC, cGauss, MLs, SLs, heatsinks, etc...)
Gauss had their 2 and 3x Crit rolls removed, but got 17 stacked onto their default 17, so they still crit at a 42% rate, but exclusively for 1 Crit.




I do find it funny how I suggested EXACTLY what this is well over a year ago. The sub-1 CritDamMult for the Gauss Rifle.
I did not, however, expect HP to be reduced to match it, so it's still a fantastic Crit weapon.

-<Weapon faction="InnerSphere" HardpointAliases="Ballistic,LargeWeapon,GaussRifle,ISGaussRifle" name="GaussRifle" id="1021">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\GaussRifle.dds" descTag="@GaussRifle_desc" nameTag="@GaussRifle"/>
<WeaponStats maxDepth="10.0" volleydelay="0" speed="2000" lifetime="10" duration="0.0" tons="15" maxRange="1320" longRange="660" minRange="0" ammoPerShot="1" ammoType="GaussAmmo" cooldown="5.0" heat="1.0" impulse="0.05" heatdamage="0" damage="15" numFiring="1" projectileclass="bullet" type="Ballistic" slots="7" Health="10" critDamMult="0.5" critChanceIncrease="0.17,-1.0,-1.0" InternalExplosionDmg="20" ExplodeChance="0.9" groupedlocally="1"/>
 
-<EffectList>

isLPL is at 10 HP, isPPC family at 12.5



I still stand by the fact that a 40 HP AC20 wouldn't last long

maybe, but how much earlier before component destruction would it actually truly go boom? not much I guess.

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 February 2017 - 06:01 AM.

[NRP]

This crit system change worries me a lot more than the skill tree change. Being immediately stripped of weapons and just running around getting nibbled to death is about as far away from a fun experience as I can imagine.

[KodiakGW]

oldradagast, on 14 February 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

If IS mechs all had ARMOR buffs instead of now nearly-useless structural buffs

Agreed. I think PGI tipped their hand that they were doing this crit change by moving all of the Cataphract structure quirks to armor on the last patch. I think they wanted to see if they would become the meta. See a few more on the field, but nothing like the numbers of PPFLD Night Gyrs you see. They all didn't become OP from that change.

So, time to change the rest of those structure quirks over to armor quirks. If not, I'm glad I already stripped and shelved my Thunderbolts.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

This is sad news, Pariah hit the nail on the head in his video regarding the current state. Critical hits simply aren't any fun, no one likes being stripped of weapons when they have all sections with health still. No one likes being able to neuter mechs that fast either, it cheapens the win. Sorry but critical hits don't add good play and they run counter to the whole point of bonus structure.

[Ultimax]

Prosperity Park, on 13 February 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

Some people like the hair-raising effect you get by being busted down to the last gun, trying to stay alive.

Then play table top?

In this game, unless your opponents are a sack of useless potatoes - you might as well be dead at that point.

[Snowbluff]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 14 February 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

This is sad news, Pariah hit the nail on the head in his video regarding the current state. Critical hits simply aren't any fun, no one likes being stripped of weapons when they have all sections with health still. No one likes being able to neuter mechs that fast either, it cheapens the win. Sorry but critical hits don't add good play and they run counter to the whole point of bonus structure.

Lies. Generalization. Hearsay.

I find it fun when I see weapon pop off as red on an enemy mech. I have fun with the extra immersion I get from damage weakening my mech.

[Gas Guzzler]

Snowbluff, on 14 February 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

Lies. Generalization. Hearsay.

I find it fun when I see weapon pop off as red on an enemy mech. I have fun with the extra immersion I get from damage weakening my mech.

I think you are a minority. Most people like playing the game, not the immersion of weapons disappearing in the middle of a fight.

I can only imagine the butthurt of running around in a splat jenner IiC and destroying weapons from behind. The salt will be real.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 14 February 2017 - 08:05 AM.

[Novakaine]

As much as i hate to admit this, but this may not be such a bad idea.
Will need some fine tuning though.
Hunchbacks and it's ilk will need some favorable structure improvement.

Edited by Novakaine, 14 February 2017 - 08:16 AM.

[Kira Onime]

Deathlike, on 13 February 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

The current system on the PTS is totally broken and wasn't thought through at all whatsoever.

[TercieI]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 February 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

I think you are a minority. Most people like playing the game, not the immersion of weapons disappearing in the middle of a fight.

I can only imagine the butthurt of running around in a splat jenner IiC and destroying weapons from behind. The salt will be real.

I admit that the one upside to this dumb idea is that it's a shadow buff to lights.

[Gas Guzzler]

TercieI, on 14 February 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

I admit that the one upside to this dumb idea is that it's a shadow buff to lights.

I'd prefer they were buffed in other ways...