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Ethics Of Combat And A Proposed Morality System


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#1 razenWing

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 11:56 PM

From the beginning of time, technology is there to bridge the difference between physical limitations between individuals. It's because of this, Dwayne Johnson probably isn't our Heracles we sent out to slay the evil Russian/Chinese hero.

With that said, assuming we are all fighting at capability of a war machine 1000 years in the future, and they can fight just as well, if not better than us (basically, assuming that they play this game, they will all be EMP or better), the "skill" aspect between each pilots is very negligible.

We are basically talking about a mutual destructive scenario where as soon as both mechs see one another, the barrage of weapon from each other will probably kill one another.

So, what I am getting at, is that the capability of these war machines are not in question, but rather... the morality and ethics of pulling triggers.

Say a bunch of refugees stand in between your awesome 20 PPCs monstrosity and an entire camp of guerrilla fighters hiding in the ranks of such refugees. Would pull the trigger and lay waste to the entire encampment like your beeping targeting computer is telling you, or to fall back to improvise another solution?

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That's the premise. My point is, what if... future Mechwarrior games implement morality systems like these... kinda imagine Mortal Kombat where you can choose to Fatality someone, Babality someone, or friendship them.

Say you completely stripped a mech of weapons. Rather than finishing him/her off, you offer the option to surrender via something like the command wheel.

By doing so, you earned a "diplomat" point, for example.

For the defeated person, you can refuse the offer, and continue to fight as your teammate's shield. At which point, you will earn a "sacrifice" point.

Based on your cumulative points earned in various categories, you receive additional/different bonuses.

For example, a high level of "diplomat" rank might earn you an additional 5% cbill at the end.
or
A high level of "sacrifice" rank might earn you a bonus 10% chance to receive the supply crate. (Assuming your team won)

I think this adds a new layer of gameplay as it factors the pilot him/herself into the game, rather than just the mech itself.

By extension, we can also use these systems to address unwanted behaviors. For example, rather than having an ERLL Raven hiding from 10 guys at the end of the match, he/she can call for dropship pickup. By doing so, he/she can escape via a called dropship and earn "survivor" point for successful escape.

And vice versa, whoever hunted down the Raven before he/she escapes will earn a "hunter" point.

That way, it's a mini-game when the main action ended. You are not forced to fight an outmatched fruitless battle, spectators get more fun watching you, and opposing team has another objective than to wander around the wasteland looking for your shutdown @ss.

Now, ASSUMING even with that, you never even make an attempt to enter a designated zone, you will be given a "cowardice" point, which is the only negative reward that can affect you.

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Now, a second part of what I described is allowing players to eject. Upon ejection, you are either going to be alive because the enemy leave you alone after offering the olive branch, OR they shoot your escape pod, and your pilot dies. (At which point, they will earn a "backstab" point)

A new stat category is added called: pilot death. Basically, a new metrics for morality determination. You have regular mech K/D, and now you have pilot K/D.

And because I just thought of this 20 minutes ago, I have no idea what pilot K/D can show, other than how willing you are to accept surrender... but eh, someone will figure it out.

edit: I dunno, maybe your likability? I can totally see snuggletimes have a high pilot K/D. Who wants to shoot snuggle, right?

Edited by razenWing, 14 February 2017 - 11:59 PM.


#2 Alek Ituin

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 12:38 AM

Being able to call for aerodyne pickup would be... interesting. Like, once the enemy team has a X% health advantage over you, your highest-rated infowar Mech could call in an emergency pickup, and you have to defend said Mech till the aerodyne gets to you. Have a timer based purely on the infowar capability of said Mech, so something like a Lolcust or dedicated scout would be able to call it in ASAP, while an Atlas would have to wait for ages.

Could be a fun dynamic gameplay element IMO.

#3 Sjorpha

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:20 AM

Retreat mechanics might be cool as a more interesting way to end stomps. I'm sceptical about a whole morality system being worth developing in arena shooters though.

#4 Vellron2005

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:48 AM

The idea is sound.. but there has to be proper incentives to reward desired behavior, and punish unwanted behavior.

These points could be translated into cbill bonuses, MC rewards, or some other thing.. but here's the case..

If you rewarded saaaay, being last alive, and then calling for air pickup, you would have 4 guys out of 12 hiding at the beginning of the match and not doing anything, just to get that reward..

So it's one of those things that need to be implemented really carefully, or they will force extreme derping behavior.

Also, such moral dilemmas are currently, beyond the scope of PGI, cose' they add too much immersion and lore :P

#5 Bud Crue

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:56 AM

Nice idea and nice start. It could add immersion and still keep he pure trigger pullers happy.


Of course it is likely WAY beyond PGI to even get close to what you are visualizing here, and because it isn't Russ's idea it would never be considered in the first place. But don't let that rain on your parade. Keep thinking. Hell if it had good graphics I'd back a game designed around that sort of morality mechanism with real $, mechwarrior or not.

Combat and Consequences...a REAL thinking man's shooter.

#6 WolvesX

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:10 AM

Sorry I didn't get the point, could you make a more simple version for none-native speakers?

#7 vettie

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 09:13 AM

20 PPCs, wow, consider the ghost heat on that one....

Also, me thinks "K" is the default eject key...

#8 Jackal Noble

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:10 AM

No.

Would be very hard to implement and keep accurate

Orrrrr just turn on Skynet and we all become very well behaved.

#9 CK16

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:13 AM

I hear by claim you as my bondsman, Isorla of Clan Ghost Bear!

One day I will say this and have meaning actually >.>

#10 SuomiWarder

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:13 AM

A kinder-gentler MechWarrior huh? Well, my first thought is that the majority of on line gamers just want to frag something. What the picture looks like on the screen- soldier, wizard, BattleMech, star fighter - doesn't really matter.

Maybe is there was an actual campaign mode with slowly changing planetary ownership some type of retreat, surrender, truce offer type thing might work as people would want to conserve resources for another day and set up the change of later alliances.

But for pick up games of blast everyone on the other side....not that important. If we still had refit and rearm, sure I would want an eject to save what was left of my mech. But we lost that long ago.

#11 Hydr1um

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 12:58 PM

#1 rule of game design, don't get cute. Players will actively abuse any system that gives them an advantage.

Starting to lose? Up against a 12 man premade? 1 person disconnect? Someone running a less than optimal mech? Better run off into a corner and hide so you can get a better reward!

Edited by Hydrinite, 15 February 2017 - 12:59 PM.


#12 C E Dwyer

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:16 PM

to open to abuse to allow any kind of retreat or get out quick mechanism.

Enough people deliberately run out of bounds alpha strike with override shut down over run masc etc, as it stands.

#13 Xmith

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 03:37 PM

This can only work with a 1v1 scenario. Sticking together and focus fire is the best way to WIN the match. Because of this, there is no time in the game today to do anything else but survive or die.

Nice idea for something that can be implemented in a Solaris type gamemode.

#14 Dirus Nigh

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:09 PM

The type of morality you are asking for in game does not belong in a PVP game like MWO, Battlefield, Call of Duty, or similar games. What you, the OP, is asking for is better suited towards a single player, cooperative, or pvp, game based on campaigns, story, and character development. In other words, an RPG, or strategy game. Games like the Total War series, or Hair Brained Schemes' up coming Battletech game are more suited for this idea.

#15 Mudhutwarrior

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:22 PM

Please don't bring up morality with these guys. A big number have no morals to begin with. Just check the TS quick play channels or watch one of the Ne'erdo well Twicth posters. They all like to take advantage of others for fun. Wathed PGI's own make several drops with his mates into quick play the other day. They wrecked face. It was funny. for them anyways.

Morals and Gamers should never be used in the same sentence.

#16 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:18 AM

I think "lore-wise" the morality of BT would be to blast the enemy cockpit in order to have more salvage. In all honesty the IS degraded into pretty much medieval era both in terms of morals and technology, clanners were right to treat them as savages they were.

#17 Kaeb Odellas

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:47 AM

I don't know how this would work out in MWO, but it would be super interesting to see in MW5.

I remember taking a few contracts in MW2: Mercs that seemed a little (or a lot) shifty on the morality side, particularly Draconis contracts. I would love to see morality come into play when taking contracts in MW5. "Evil" contracts might pay more or be easier, while good contracts are harder or pay less. The contracts you take affect your reputation, opening doors or closing others.

God, it would be awesome to have a random enemy (or ally) pull an Inigo Montoya on you in the middle of a mission for killing someone dear to him/her.





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