24 replies to this topic

[Malrock]

soapyfrog, on 21 February 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

I totally disagree. I have earned all 91 for all of my mastered mechs, I have modules I could place in them or if I wanted to I could buy more modules. So any mech I have mastered in my garage right now I can load up with modules and hit the game with that mech at the peak of it's capability.

I am not interested in going back and "levelling" mechs I have previously mastered. This is not a world of warcraft expansion where the level increase is justified by a bunch of appropriate new content to experience. No, I am simply being penalized, and then being required to play those same mechs in those same game modes a bunch more just to get them back to the point they were already at

It would be as if in world of warcraft instead of releasing a new expansion they just knocked everyone down 15-20 levels and then required them to level back up to cap through the same old content, but also charging them 100,000 gold per level.

Not that this game should be ANYTHING like world of warcraft! that's the point! The content in this game is new mechs and different builds and both of those things are now being heavily penalized with increased cost and grind.

I only disagree slightly in that the new skill tree's allow you to take way more "Modules" on your mech than was possible previously. So it does make some sense that there would be further compensation required to get the additional features, but it shouldn't be much and our previous grind needs to be properly respected. 72 points to spend as you wish per mastered variant would be a solid way to go and only require 20 additional points to achieve new full mastery, which gets you bonuses far in excess of what old mastery provided. Plus when the modules get refunded then you will have plenty of c bills to buy the rest of your points as it will only be 1.2 million per mech. To use your WoW analogy it is like after the first expansion not only did level cap increase but the skill tree that went form 21 points to 31 points (91 for MWO), now you have to grind out the extra 10 points (20 for mwo), but you still get to keep the 21 you had before (or in our case 72).

But I also tend to agree mastered before and mastered after has a real good feel to it.

Edited by Malrock, 21 February 2017 - 12:13 PM.

[Morggo]

Malrock, on 21 February 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

...One of the problems though is this still hurts new players, who are trying to get established, as there is still a hefty c bill sink, and no quick exp only way to get basic proficiency. The new player counts every last c bill and forcing them to pay a bunch of them to get these skills is going to really slow down their development. Plus it doesn't provide any guidance on the appropriate skills to take, although the consolidation of weapons should help with that somewhat. Probably need to consider tripling the c bill award after the first few matches just to give new players a fighting chance.

Given the new proposed cost changes I might partly agree it is hurting new players. But here's my logic why I'm not fully sold on it being harder for new players yet, I could be looking at it wrong but here goes.

• Most of my mechs took between 40 and 60 drops to fully master under the old system each.
  
• I earn on average 125,000cbills.

Now, early on my averages were a bit lower so I get that. But taking the average of 50 drops to fully master (and keep in mind that is only unlocking a module slot so not gaining a ton of performance but that is beside the point). Doing the math, you find that in the new system in the same amount of drops I end up with a mech running at an equivalent 'old master' plus have more than enough cbill to rank up all 91 nodes. And here's the thing that, imo, flips the balance to be a bit more kind.... in the old system it literally took me, my wife, and most the others in our group months and months to earn the GXP to unlock Radar dep, seismic, zoom, plus various weapon modules. With the new system, that new player can be rocking a mech with those helpful modules within his or her first week or two of playing the game. Further.. they'll likely have more modules equipped than even possible today due to no being limited to hard module slots. To me, new players will have it much easier than I did with the coming trees.

I may be looking at it and missing some critical point?

[Malrock]

Morggo, on 21 February 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

Given the new proposed cost changes I might partly agree it is hurting new players. But here's my logic why I'm not fully sold on it being harder for new players yet, I could be looking at it wrong but here goes.

• Most of my mechs took between 40 and 60 drops to fully master under the old system each.
  
• I earn on average 125,000cbills.

Now, early on my averages were a bit lower so I get that. But taking the average of 50 drops to fully master (and keep in mind that is only unlocking a module slot so not gaining a ton of performance but that is beside the point). Doing the math, you find that in the new system in the same amount of drops I end up with a mech running at an equivalent 'old master' plus have more than enough cbill to rank up all 91 nodes. And here's the thing that, imo, flips the balance to be a bit more kind.... in the old system it literally took me, my wife, and most the others in our group months and months to earn the GXP to unlock Radar dep, seismic, zoom, plus various weapon modules. With the new system, that new player can be rocking a mech with those helpful modules within his or her first week or two of playing the game. Further.. they'll likely have more modules equipped than even possible today due to no being limited to hard module slots. To me, new players will have it much easier than I did with the coming trees.

I may be looking at it and missing some critical point?

I think the problem is when you get your first mech, is that it is hardly in top shape to be driven around, and you need to properly outfit said mech, which takes a lot more c bills on top of all the c bills you already used to buy the damn thing. So a bunch of your next bit of c bills are going to go to improving the load out of your mech to fit your play style. This means that you are running around in a unskilled mech for an even longer period of time and the gap between your mech with out skills and everyone else's mech with lots of skills is pretty big, and is even bigger than currently on live.

My understanding is that many new players get in a match or two and quickly die, find it isn't fun to be insta gibbed and then quit the game. This skill system will exacerbate the difference between a new mech and a fully skilled mech by an even larger margin than we have now. Making this experience even worse.

For those who did stick with the game and the grind they were progressing the floor level of their mech with out spending c bills by spending the exp they earned while trying to grind out those c bills. Even while they were saving money to get their better equipment, they could also be progressing the skills of their mech to lessen the power delta between mastered and unmastered mechs, and also to get a sense of progression. Even just getting basics makes a pretty big difference. Thus they even the playing field in two directions at the same time one by getting better skills that were exp not c bill gated and two by getting better equipment to outfit the mech.

Now there is no increase in the power floor of your mech through exp expenditures alone. The only way to get those power increases is through c bill payments. Thus making the initial grind even more punishing, because now every improvement is locked behind a c bill pay wall, it almost makes exp worthless, as the biggest gate will always be c bills, and it makes the second mech purchase even further delayed. Plus new players won't naturally known the best trees to start investing in to get the most bang for their Skill Point node.

Also i would suggest new players probably are earning in the area more like 60,000 or less per match than the 120,000 that you currently average.

Edited by Malrock, 21 February 2017 - 12:44 PM.

[Morggo]

I can see your points. And agree avg earnings at first are lower. 60ish may have been more my first averages. Similar ratios on xp earned now and then. Still, that is a steady skill node per drop.. which should feel somewhat rewarding and definielty progress. And as each node unlocks, that is incrementally better mech, which in theory should begin to lift payouts.. which continues to run until in that 50 drop range you're probably getting close to that 'mastered' feel... brand new pilots true will likely be more than 50 drops I agree but think it's not that today either.

eager to see how it plays out, though likey the chips will fall somewhere between our two views

[Malrock]

Morggo, on 21 February 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

I can see your points. And agree avg earnings at first are lower. 60ish may have been more my first averages. Similar ratios on xp earned now and then. Still, that is a steady skill node per drop.. which should feel somewhat rewarding and definielty progress. And as each node unlocks, that is incrementally better mech, which in theory should begin to lift payouts.. which continues to run until in that 50 drop range you're probably getting close to that 'mastered' feel... brand new pilots true will likely be more than 50 drops I agree but think it's not that today either.

eager to see how it plays out, though likey the chips will fall somewhere between our two views

Yeah but even if they did earn a node per drop, lets say, they still can't change any of the equipment on their mech, which is half the fun of the game, so either they run stock, which we all agree is less than optimal and defeats the purpose of buying a mech (configuring to suite your playstyle) to begin with, or they get nodes. can't do both.