27 replies to this topic

[Kazenoma]

Okay. This needs to be said.

Clan players in scouting need help. The amount of bad mechs / bad builds in this mode is staggering. I'm not just talking about trials, either. I'm talking about people who have no idea how to play the mode.

If you want to win at scouting, run any of the three below mechs:

ER Med Ice Ferret

• Nearly 140KPH, tanky as a griffin, and around twice the range. Stay at distance, alpha, fade, repeat.

Small Pulse Arctic Cheetah

• Also 140KPH, short range, but with the benefit of ECM. Use these to gather and / or leg loners when the pack splits.

SSRM Adder

• 105KPH. "I am death, the destroyer of lights." Use this to pick off those pesky Locusts / Oxides that make last-minute DS runs.

The ideal team is three Ice Ferrets and one Adder. You cover all your bases this way: You have enough speed to gather intel on both attack and defense. You have range to deal with the IS SRM mob. If your enemy is running a locust deck, you have a flyswatter. Mixed SRM deck with mediums and Oxides? You can deal with both. The only hard matches are against teams with four Oxides or odd medium LPL builds. Those come down to individual skill.


The ideal strategy is to either:

• On Offense: Collect 10 as quickly as possible, bait the pack with one or two people and/or engage near the drop zone. If you need to fight early, string them out. Focus or leg stragglers.

• On Defense: Collect around 7 or 8, begin searching. When you find them, fight at range. Alpha, fade, repeat. Same strategy: string them out, pile and leg stragglers.

"But Kaze! You're not sharing armor! Hanging back and not suiciding into 104542506 missiles is hurting your team! You're a bad player!"



Stuff it.

I've heard this nonsense time and time again. It's a mantra thrown out by lazy people who can't be bothered to use any semblance of tactics. Hold down W, hit the alpha button. This is the extent of their playing ability.

Armor sharing is a myth. Especially in this context. It doesn't matter if you all decide to charge; any team with half-decent players will pile upon the first target locked like that one morbidly obese guy on BBQ ribs at Old Country Buffet. The chance of this happening is about 80%; if they're on coms, it's 100%. And guess what? I don't care what you're running; if they're in range, you will die. There's absolutely nothing you can do.

Don't let it happen.

Stop bringing bad mechs. Stop diving headlong into Bushwackers and Griffins like suicidal idiots. Your large pulse shadowcat can't brawl. The only mechs comparable to IS SRM meta right now are Huntsmans and short-range Ice Ferrets. If you decide to engage at short range, and you don't have four of these and a coordinated team, you're setting yourself up to lose.

Stop being bad. Start using your brain.

This has been a public service announcement.

[Eidolon 29]

I'm a IS loyalist and I'd have to say that even when the clans were able to take Stormcrows into scouting, I felt a good clan pilot using an Ice ferret was more dangerous/effective. Not always depending on the map, but by in large too many clan pilots seemed to lean on the crows ability to pack streaks or laser vomit. Against new IS players using light mechs or mechs designed for quick play (poke, alpha, duck back into cover, but relatively slow) this worked great, but then what well made/piloted mech doesn't do well against inexperienced players. It just seemed the crow was the preferred mech for newb bashing, and easy for a clan newb to bash IS newbs.

Cents (D's, AH, and Wangs), hunch 4sp, Shadowhawks 2d2 (I think with all the missile hardpoints), and griffins could handle most any payload a crow could take to scout pretty well. Not a stomp or roll by any means but we seemed to hold our own quite well. Heck on the bigger maps I'd use cicadas against them and win with large pulse and staying out of their most effective range legging them (few clan pilots would equip long/mid range weapons on their crows).

Ice ferrets are a whole other matter. While tougher to pilot well, their speed along with the ability to take some good hits and still pack a punch make them much harder to counter in scout. They are even worse on gather cause if all they want to do is get intel and get out there are not many mechs IS can take to chase them down and kill them easily.

Though the above posts says to use mediums lasers and stay at range, you can equip an Ice ferret for brawl with an alpha pretty close to that on IS 50-55 tonners. In my experience decent clan pilots brawling in Ice ferrets do as much or more damage than their crow allies.

Edited by Eidolon 29, 19 February 2017 - 10:58 PM.

[Kazenoma]

Eidolon 29, on 19 February 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

Though the above posts says to use mediums lasers and stay at range, you can equip an Ice ferret for brawl with an alpha pretty close to that on IS 50-55 tonners. In my experience decent clan pilots brawling in Ice ferrets do as much or more damage than their crow allies.

Agreed on this and all other points. In the right hands, Ferrets can be absolute monsters in brawls. They're as good or better than anything on the IS side, especially since they have the option to hybrid pinpoint damage (SPLs) and splash (SRMs).

SPL / SRM Ferret, as an example.

For the PUG queue, I advise going with range because it's more versatile based on your team setup. With an ER med build, you might still eke out a win if you find yourself in a 2 (or even 3) vs 1. It's possible to chip away and get kills even if the IS SRM pack stays together. It's much harder to do that in a brawler.

For premades though, four of the above is as good as (or better) than any IS option out there.

(And yeah, Streakcrows were 99% newb bashers. Too many clan pilots were reliant on them.)

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

As a Ferret pilot this thread warms my heart ^^
And yes SPL / SRM ferret is the way to go.

[justcallme A S H]

cERML Ferret? Please... cSPL or go home. cERML duration too long for a brawl, and that is all scouting it.


That said if you want to do better, simply bring the better mechs. OP suggestion, not the best at all. These are the best, these kill. That is what scouting is about. Have one light to gather if needed and run any mix of the below, brawl it out - gg.


NOVA 1 - The DPS on this is absurd

NOVA 2 - Make sure you use the Heat Gen quirk arm.

NOVA 3 - Warmer, but if you can't almost insta torso a IS XL build, you're doing something wrong.

Huntsman 1 - straightforward

Huntsman 2 - even more straightforward

Huntsman 3 - just more outright dmg, straightforward

Huntsman 4 - undertonned a little. Can swap to streaks to fill out tonnage

Running around the map gathering intel pays POORLY. As in, you will earn sub 100k cbills. What a waste of 10mins that is.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 21 February 2017 - 09:10 PM.

[Unendingmenace]

SPL Ferret can be devastating in the right pilots hands!

Ash has provided a heap of staple builds above that will surely net great results. Remember in scouting, sticking with the group is the best way to ensure victory. Don't be afraid to have a light with SRM's/SPL either, if they're good pilots they can use the speed to their advantage once the main brawl starts.

[Appogee]

Viper C and Medusa (SPL & MG) can also hold their own in a short-range fight.

But only if the rest of your lance is also equipped for short range. You can't have your 3 other guys standing 400m away while you become the only short-range target.

Edited by Appogee, 22 February 2017 - 04:17 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Unendingmenace, on 22 February 2017 - 02:37 AM, said:

SPL Ferret can be devastating in the right pilots hands!

Ash has provided a heap of staple builds above that will surely net great results. Remember in scouting, sticking with the group is the best way to ensure victory. Don't be afraid to have a light with SRM's/SPL either, if they're good pilots they can use the speed to their advantage once the main brawl starts.

Indeed I agree RE: Ferret - Can 4 of them though, take on a bunch of SRM IS brawlers?

Not so sure, you need that extra POW the Nova/Huntsman bring to the table IMO, the first Nova build I stuck up there is doing TWICE the DPS a Ferret does... That is nothing to dismiss.

Objectives either way mean jack.

[JENNER llC]

BrawlCat scout

UAC10 + 3 x SRM4 shadowcat

just enough ammo for scouting if u make shots counts

a little slow and delicate but great dps & agility to come in at odd angles

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

The Ferret is not good if there are 4 of them.
However if you have 1 Ferret and 3 HMN/NVA/HBK with you, the enemy can either ignore the IFR and let it have their backs, or focus it and hit alot of air and get nice and toasty for the main brawl, or even better turn their backs to the real dangers.
The longer the IFR is ignored the worse, because its limited hardpoints means excellent Heat efficiency.

Edited by Poptimus Rhyme Wallace, 24 February 2017 - 10:03 AM.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

justcallme A S H, on 22 February 2017 - 04:02 AM, said:

Indeed I agree RE: Ferret - Can 4 of them though, take on a bunch of SRM IS brawlers?

Not so sure, you need that extra POW the Nova/Huntsman bring to the table IMO, the first Nova build I stuck up there is doing TWICE the DPS a Ferret does... That is nothing to dismiss.

Objectives either way mean jack.

purely personal experience, But right after the tonnage nerf, we were running a 4 man with 4 novas 8 smpls and 6 smpls/4mg mix, and we hit the same IS 4 man 3 times in a row, lost in the brawl close 3 times. We switched to 4 Ferrets with small pulse. Hit them two more times, and rolled them 4-0 and 4-0.

A light pack with 45 ton armor and additional structure shouldn't be under estimated.

just personal experience though.

[Commander A9]

Jenner IIC and Arctic Cheetah with 4-6 Small Pulse Lasers.

Focus fire.

Legs legs legs mother[censored] legs!

Victory!

[MovinTarget]

Having *1* Jenner IIc with 6 SPL (and max engine) is not a bad thing, just in case they have lights... As long as it's not focused, it will be plenty effective in the brawl but still fast enough to hunt down any light...

You need to have a true scouter's mentality with it though... don't try to tank or rush in and sacrifice yourself to get the kill...

Edited by MovinTarget, 26 February 2017 - 12:43 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

I have two primary mechs for Scouting. They both are fantastic at the job.

My heavy hitter is my Pakhet, "Arbitrator."
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1f0437a20099c2f

4x ASRM6, NOT streaks, backed up by 4x SPlas. 72 point alpha and zero ghost heat. Point towards enemy, two shot any IS or Clan medium mech from the front CT. Or make legs vaporize. The Active Probe is there to counter Grif ECM, but can easily be replaced with a TC1 to slightly increase crit chance across the board, as well as slightly bump the SPlas range.

My second pick is my Shadow Cat, the "Stabby Tabby."
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...11e18bc1ff0c32f

3x ASRM6, again NOT streaks, with two SPLas for support in case the ammo runs dry. You provide the team's ECM coverage, and can range ahead to spot the enemy before the enemy sees you. I have done some serious work in this thing, and it is one of my more enjoyable mechs to pilot. Alternatively, you can swap the SPLas to ERSLas for an extra DHS, or replace them altogether with Flamers to try and lockdown IS mechs. However, I find IS mechs are more resistant to flamer induced lockdown than Clan machines, due to lower heat caps and hotter weapons.

[Wolfways]

Kazenoma, on 19 February 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

"But Kaze! You're not sharing armor! Hanging back and not suiciding into 104542506 missiles is hurting your team! You're a bad player!"



Stuff it.

I've heard this nonsense time and time again. It's a mantra thrown out by lazy people who can't be bothered to use any semblance of tactics. Hold down W, hit the alpha button. This is the extent of their playing ability.

Armor sharing is a myth. Especially in this context. It doesn't matter if you all decide to charge; any team with half-decent players will pile upon the first target locked like that one morbidly obese guy on BBQ ribs at Old Country Buffet. The chance of this happening is about 80%; if they're on coms, it's 100%. And guess what? I don't care what you're running; if they're in range, you will die. There's absolutely nothing you can do.

I've been saying this for years. It never goes down well.

[Dee Eight]

justcallme A S H, on 21 February 2017 - 08:37 PM, said:

Huntsman 1 - straightforward

Huntsman 2 - even more straightforward

Huntsman 3 - just more outright dmg, straightforward

Huntsman 4 - undertonned a little. Can swap to streaks to fill out tonnage

Running around the map gathering intel pays POORLY. As in, you will earn sub 100k cbills. What a waste of 10mins that is.

It amuses me how dumb your straightforward huntsman builds are for scouting, given #1 that they all rely on a player having hero pods available for the side torsos, and #2 the ones which are streak boats ignore how often ecm griffins show up on IS scout teams. Great...you can counter a single ECM mech... what happens if there's a pair ? Oh that's right...you're jammed by both and then you cannot fire back at all until hopefully...someone on your squad carries you long enough that they brought other weapons and can kill one of the griffins. Or you can extract yourself from the brawl far enough to get out from the double ecm bubbles. They also rely on players never accidently tripping the ghost heat in the thick of an intense brawl unless shutdown and death is the goal.

Want to give someone helpful builds ? Maybe not rely strictly on omnipods unavailable for C-bills to do it.

[MovinTarget]

That's not really "dumb"

Perhaps a bit harder to emulate universally, but not dumb.

[Pariah Devalis]

Given my old comment is outdated, and limited, here's my updated set:

https://mwomercs.com...couting-builds/

TL;DR:
4x ASRM6 4x ERSLas HMN, either with standard or hero pods (standard pods putting the SRM in the arms) has zero ghost heat, high damage, and is less susceptible to hit detection crapping out on your SRMs. Pakhet would be best, however, for superior SRM spread. Failing that, a 6xASRM6 HMN using non-hero pods is rock solid.

4x ASRM6 2x ERSLas SHC does not require any hero pods. Highly underrated mech. Not a beginner's brawler, because you need to focus even more on how you move, in addition to everything else. You are not as tanky as virtually anything else on the field, but you have way more mobility than most things out there. Use that to your advantage, and punish anyone who ignores you with an extremely potent weapon payload.

10 ERSLas Nova Prime is pure stock pods. No hero required. Oldie but a goodie, still eviscerates mechs. Can easily be given 10 HSL instead, at the sacrifice of range. Better at nuking smaller targets and specific components because of hitscan lasers, but can get you overheating in a heartbeat if you are sloppy.

[InvictusLee]

@OP

*high five*

[Commander A9]

Better idea.

Shut down Scouting.

Entirely.

Because it drags players out of Invasion.