118 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Snowbluff, on 20 February 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Can we start with the HBK IIC and work our way up? Does a regular hunchie was as well as the clan one in this capacity.

I don't think the two are necessarily comparable, outside of the vomit HBK-4P against the vomit HBK-IICA.

If you want to compare 55 ton pop-tarts, though, I'd suggest looking at the SHD-2K. If you want to compare dakka boats, I would again suggest the SHD-2H rather than any of the IS Hunchies.

[Dr Hobo]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 February 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

I don't think the two are necessarily comparable, outside of the vomit HBK-4P against the vomit HBK-IICA.

If you want to compare 55 ton pop-tarts, though, I'd suggest looking at the SHD-2K. If you want to compare dakka boats, I would again suggest the SHD-2H rather than any of the IS Hunchies.

Nobody runs SHD's anymore. I think I was the only one when I last played. They aren't meta enough anymore.

[Y E O N N E]

Dr Hobo, on 20 February 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

Nobody runs SHD's anymore. I think I was the only one when I last played. They aren't meta enough anymore.

That's not how it works.

The SHD is actually extremely meta, with its cockpit-level mounts and narrow geometry. However, nobody is running SHDs because the HBK-IIC, NVA, and HMN exist. If those 'Mechs didn't exist, we'd probably be running them (and/or the BJ-3) all the time as the Medium pop-tart because they are otherwise the best. Even the 2H can rip out some nasty damage as a dakka boat using a UAC/5 and two AC/2 (or two AC/5 and one AC/2), I'd say roughly comparable to the quad-UAC/2 HBK-IIC. But the isXL really lets it down vs. the cXL.

[Snowbluff]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 February 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

I don't think the two are necessarily comparable, outside of the vomit HBK-4P against the vomit HBK-IICA.

If you want to compare 55 ton pop-tarts, though, I'd suggest looking at the SHD-2K. If you want to compare dakka boats, I would again suggest the SHD-2H rather than any of the IS Hunchies.

forhr e purpose of the though excitement, I think PPCs would be best.

I have a shadow hawk. I think it's alright. Haven't poptarted wth it, though.

[Dr Hobo]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 February 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

That's not how it works.

The SHD is actually extremely meta, with its cockpit-level mounts and narrow geometry. However, nobody is running SHDs because the HBK-IIC, NVA, and HMN exist. If those 'Mechs didn't exist, we'd probably be running them (and/or the BJ-3) all the time as the Medium pop-tart because they are otherwise the best. Even the 2H can rip out some nasty damage as a dakka boat using a UAC/5 and two AC/2 (or two AC/5 and one AC/2), I'd say roughly comparable to the quad-UAC/2 HBK-IIC. But the isXL really lets it down vs. the cXL.

Oh I agree perfectly,it's a great mean mech in the right hands. I'm just saying in reality,you don't see them much. All that I ever tend to see is whatever new mech is out at the time,or the current crop of whatever happens to be patch meta. I mean I think I've seen one Heavy Metal and it's Feb.

But again,it pales compared to a 12 ERSL Quad MG Nova,or a meta build Storm Crow.

IS XLs aren't survivable compared to Clan XLs.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Snowbluff, on 20 February 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Effective Alpha Value: They are equal.
Effective DPS: Slight edge of indeterminate value to the CERPPC.

The effective alpha values ARE NOT the same. The cERPPC has 25%-50% more damage per alpha, it just has the same PPFLD. DO NOT conflate effective alpha values with PPFLD alphas because they are not the same in this case.

Snowbluff, on 20 February 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Weight and Slots versus heat: No, get the math out. .12 more HPS, counter acted by a heat sinks that weighs 1 ton and 2 slots.

Which still doesn't counteract the extra damage you get and the fact that energy boats on the IS side have steeper diminishing returns involved (because they can get capped on crits a lot faster).

Snowbluff, on 20 February 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Now, look at your quirked corner case, WHK

The reason I bring up the Warhawk is because I've tested both the Warhawk and Awesome for 85-ish at extreme range and while the convergence, range, and velocity is better on the Awesome, the raw damage the Warhawk does typically invalidates those advantages (if only slightly, it is a close fight in that regard).

Snowbluff, on 20 February 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Can we start with the HBK IIC and work our way up? Does a regular hunchie was as well as the clan one in this capacity.

BJ-3 is the best comparison, and again, that extra damage is pretty big.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 February 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

And still wonder why they can't add a toggle or the like to simply constrict the choke (aka spread) of LBX cannons from Spread to essentially "solid shot". If I recall correctly it's just an XML file correction... and it would mean one wouldn't have to program alternate ammo, etc for it. Choke it enough, it will essentially emulate a solid shot.

If PGI did go this route, they'd also have to have the "choke" remove the critical hit chance and damage multipliers. Otherwise, the "slug" mode would be just as good at crit-seeking as the buckshot.

[Y E O N N E]

Snowbluff, on 20 February 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

forhr e purpose of the though excitement, I think PPCs would be best.

I have a shadow hawk. I think it's alright. Haven't poptarted wth it, though.

I wouldn't bother pop-tarting unless it's a 2K. Even then, I find it runs a little too toasty with twin ER PPC, but if you drop one of the ERs to a standard it's much better. It runs faster than the HBK-IIC and jumps gooder, too. If it had a stronger velocity quirk to compensate for requiring greater precision (lack of splash means there are no "partial" hits on a component), it would be absolutely top-rate. Better than the BJ-3. The BJ-3 is what it is because it has monster heat and velocity quirks, but even those aren't enough to save it from still being 45 tons. You actually hardly see them in QP, let alone comps.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 20 February 2017 - 06:54 PM, said:

If PGI did go this route, they'd also have to have the "choke" remove the critical hit chance and damage multipliers. Otherwise, the "slug" mode would be just as good at crit-seeking as the buckshot.

So you mean it would still be terrible?

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 February 2017 - 07:05 PM, said:

So you mean it would still be terrible?

Yes, although even more terrible from a "relative" standpoint (as in, you could just choose to never buckshot). It kind of goes against the spirit of the LBX to only use one of the ammo types for it.

[Metus regem]

FupDup, on 20 February 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

Yes, although even more terrible from a "relative" standpoint (as in, you could just choose to never buckshot). It kind of goes against the spirit of the LBX to only use one of the ammo types for it.

How is that any different from now....

[Y E O N N E]

Metus regem, on 20 February 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

How is that any different from now....

It isn't and that's his point.

[FupDup]

Metus regem, on 20 February 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

How is that any different from now....

Because right now clusters are your only option.

Really, I think that it would be a lot faster and easier to just make clusters not stink so much.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 20 February 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

Because right now clusters are your only option.

Really, I think that it would be a lot faster and easier to just make clusters not stink so much.

4+ years of MWO argues against that. The only hope is to make it as convoluted as possible, and then we should see a mrginal improvement in some situations, .... if we hold it up to the light juuuuuuuuuust right.

[Dr Hobo]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 February 2017 - 07:51 PM, said:

4+ years of MWO argues against that. The only hope is to make it as convoluted as possible, and then we should see a mrginal improvement in some situations, .... if we hold it up to the light juuuuuuuuuust right.

Even though Mythbusters proved it's possible to polish a ****,it's still a **** at the end of the day.