37 replies to this topic

[Miodog]

Since it pays the best too, I don't know why people hate it.

[Lykaon]

Probably Not, on 17 February 2017 - 09:39 PM, said:

I actually don't understand why Conquest is disliked. It's fun. Some maps for it are pretty poorly laid out, but it's fun.

Someone explain to me why Conquest is disliked.

I would say there are two reasons players complain about it.

ONE... It's not a skirmish on a tiny map fought in the same three squares on any particular map. For what ever reason there seems to be an endless supply of players who would play skirmish HPG or canyon all day every day if given the choice.

TWO... Puggies can and do frequently screw up some basic strategy on conquest by scattering all over to cap everything. This leaves your team lacking in a concentrated force to battle the enemy if/when they murderball into your team.


I can sum up conquest strategy....

Small map = cap two closest points with your two fastest mechs everyone else gathers and moves to suspected point of contact. The two capping mech rejoin ASAP and you attack the enemy with all mechs. Cap after a sizable kill lead is attained and mop enemy survivors.

Larger map= cap two closest points with your two fastest mechs, everyone else moves together at speed of slowest mech in the unit to suspected point of contact with the enemy. Second fastest mech rejoins main force ASAP fastest mech attempts to take a third cap point (enemy closest cap ussually) then rejoins main force.

The larger maps may require a point lead to be held for a while to prevent the enemy from having enough points to win on caps while you chase down the last couple of light mechs and attempt to capture the enemy controlled points during the end game.

That's about it.

Edited by Lykaon, 18 February 2017 - 01:36 AM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

From the viewpoint of a light pilot:

-drops into match. Is the only light, and is a slow light-

"lights, please cap."

"lights, please scout."

"only one of me, can't do both. which do you want me to do?"

-is ignored, team continues to wander off in the Four Winds Formation-

-caps first and second points because the other team already has theta, comes back to find the whole team dead-

"WTF STUPID LIGHTS WHY DIDN'T YOU SCOUT!?"

"...I'm capping, because this is conquest. Theta is taken, you know they're all there - and you STILL walked in, one mech at a time in a death conga line and failed."

"Noob lights! uninstall!"

Yeah. The life of a light pilot in conquest. I'll take skirmish any day, please.

[Clownwarlord]

I enjoy conquest. It gives some mechs a chance to be useful when in other game modes not nearly so. Example of this is a light mech without many hard points. That would be the Mist Lynx by allowing it to go cap while the rest of the team is fighting. This game modes also leads to some interesting games where if you are a mech that is up in tickets but down in mechs you can still win because you played the game mode. Furthermore, it can also be interesting because if you are up in mech but losing in tickets it gives you something else to think about; should we cap or continue to kill off the enemy mechs?

So unlike skirmish or domination I rather do enjoy it. I also enjoy assault game mode, always protect your base.

[JC Daxion]

I don't get it either...

But as far as people and strats go, it is kinda funny, that people don't get that all you need to do is get 3 caps and keep um.. Much easier to win this by ambushing the ones that come to steal a cap,, than the normal.. "lets keep capping"


it's my favorite mode for sure.. more chance to run into smaller fights

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

It does stop deathball matches mostly. Mostly.

I quite like this mode, it adds a completely different dynamic to win but the cap points need to be a small base that offers cover around the cap points. Most of the time they're deathtraps.

It's about time capping actually got seriously rewarded otherwise there's absolutely no benefit for capping (asides winning but who cares about that when you can blast people 24/7).

[Dee Eight]

On small maps i don't say anything, on polar and grim though I always say

"Mechs 90 or faster, focus on caps and 89 or slower do as you like".

On every other map the caps are close enough together for the most part (even on alpine 4 of them are within maybe a 4x4 grid) but on those two... they're spread out enough that a 150 ticket lead can be insurmountable with 3 or 4 cap points in your control still if all the enemy has left alive are a couple slow heavies/assaults, even if they've wiped you out (or vice versa).

That kind of tactical thought is just too deep and involved for many players though.

Edited by Dee Eight, 18 February 2017 - 03:46 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Best mode by far IMO.

It's inevitable that the more tactically interesting a game mode is, the more ways there are to fail at it. That is a good thing, if a game mode can be played successfully without coordination it's probably not a good game mode.

Also by far the best and most balanced game mode in faction play, the respawns make it the first time in MWO for objectives to take priority oved kills.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Because when people are forced to go out of their comfort zone of playing poke, nascar (or what ever it's called) and deathballing, people tend to hate that

[Wildstreak]

Those who complain do so for bogus reasons.
"I died first, I shouldn't have because of how awesome I am."
"Why can't this be more like Skirmish?"
"Look at the comp matches in MRBC and PGI hosted events, you do not see comp players capping much."
etc.

I think it is fine, these screens prove it.



Proof you do not NEED to do X amount of damage to contribute.




Ultimate Conquest Victory, winning when your whole team is dead.

[Coolant]

Conquest is a game mode where you theoretically do not have to fight at all. You stand on a plot of ground with no objectives other than standing in a square block and move on to the next one. You could take the giant killing death machines and all the weapons out of the game and still play Conquest...just replace the mechs with Mario Karts. Assault is at least better in that only having the 2 bases causes conflict in the center and so you usually have combat. But, in Conquest there is so many options for capping that the teams inevitably get split up and it's possible that you see no combat action, or you get stuck in a group of 2 or 3 and face a whole team.

I prefer in-your-face Skirmish by far, where the only goal is to fight, no distractions.

Edited by Coolant, 18 February 2017 - 10:24 AM.

[Phoolan Devi]

Lykaon, on 18 February 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

I would say there are two reasons players complain about it.

ONE... It's not a skirmish on a tiny map fought in the same three squares on any particular map. For what ever reason there seems to be an endless supply of players who would play skirmish HPG or canyon all day every day if given the choice.

TWO... Puggies can and do frequently screw up some basic strategy on conquest by scattering all over to cap everything. This leaves your team lacking in a concentrated force to battle the enemy if/when they murderball into your team.


I can sum up conquest strategy....

Small map = cap two closest points with your two fastest mechs everyone else gathers and moves to suspected point of contact. The two capping mech rejoin ASAP and you attack the enemy with all mechs. Cap after a sizable kill lead is attained and mop enemy survivors.

Larger map= cap two closest points with your two fastest mechs, everyone else moves together at speed of slowest mech in the unit to suspected point of contact with the enemy. Second fastest mech rejoins main force ASAP fastest mech attempts to take a third cap point (enemy closest cap ussually) then rejoins main force.

The larger maps may require a point lead to be held for a while to prevent the enemy from having enough points to win on caps while you chase down the last couple of light mechs and attempt to capture the enemy controlled points during the end game.

That's about it.

This "strategy" tends to loose conquest, rather than wins it. Lights and fast mediums should generally never get into combat at conquest!

[Ted Wayz]

Because it does not fall within the standard deviation of the other maps. Rest of the maps are faster pussycat kill kill kill in one form or another. So one build/mech is suitable for all of those modes. Conquest not so much.

If I ran more clan mechs it wouldn't bother me as much as they are in general faster. But in an IS heavy or Assault...ugh. Even some IS mediums are painful in conquest.

Still on some maps conquest is fun. Really liked it on the old Terra Therma, best mode for that map. New Terra not so much.

[Nesutizale]

Probably Not, on 18 February 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

Theoretically, you don't have to fight at all in Assault. Theoretically.

Thats not a theorie. I had enough matches that ended without a fight in assault that I hate that mode the most. Assault and skirmish are the worst unispired modes to play.
I prefere conquest and Escort. Both need a bit of coordination and working with the team.
I guess that most people don't like it just because of that. They want to be the shine hero that wins it all.

I say scrap skirmish and give us Solaris 1v1, 4v4, 8v8 and big stomping 24 free for all.
Also replace Conquest with a Attacker vs Defender scenario.

Ted Wayz, on 18 February 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

Because it does not fall within the standard deviation of the other maps. Rest of the maps are faster pussycat kill kill kill in one form or another. So one build/mech is suitable for all of those modes. Conquest not so much.

If I ran more clan mechs it wouldn't bother me as much as they are in general faster. But in an IS heavy or Assault...ugh. Even some IS mediums are painful in conquest.

Still on some maps conquest is fun. Really liked it on the old Terra Therma, best mode for that map. New Terra not so much.

Maybe PGI should create maps with fixed modes instead of every mode on every map. That way the maps could be optimized in regard of the mode that is played on them.

[Unnatural Growth]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 18 February 2017 - 01:40 AM, said:

From the viewpoint of a light pilot:

-drops into match. Is the only light, and is a slow light-

"lights, please cap."

"lights, please scout."

"only one of me, can't do both. which do you want me to do?"

-is ignored, team continues to wander off in the Four Winds Formation-

-caps first and second points because the other team already has theta, comes back to find the whole team dead-

"WTF STUPID LIGHTS WHY DIDN'T YOU SCOUT!?"

"...I'm capping, because this is conquest. Theta is taken, you know they're all there - and you STILL walked in, one mech at a time in a death conga line and failed."

"Noob lights! uninstall!"

Yeah. The life of a light pilot in conquest. I'll take skirmish any day, please.

^THIS.

Personally I think conquest blows chunks of dead mule's @zz. The only thing I can say good about conquest, is at least it's not
Escort mode. In QP, with pugs, who refuse to communicate, or hell do anything that makes sense? No thank you. Even IF I could pick my mech AFTER finding out I was dropping conquest, and even if the maps were redrawn to be totally conquest-centric, the mode still blows. Stand in a Box Warrior.

And the rewards are terrible. On the (thankfully) rare occasion I'm stuck playing conquest, and I'm actually in a fast medium or light, even on a "win" the Cbills are trash compared to an average skirmish or assault match. Because the rewards STILL don't reward capping compared to raw damage and kills. Even in CONQUEST MODE.

This is nothing more than PGI spitting in our eyes and telling us to "Eat Shizzle". They took the game mode voting out (TWICE, first time they had to put it back due to all the dumpster fires on the forums), and they refuse to do the obviously best fix of just putting the voting back in. Mostly from spite, it seems.

Could be so simple, you want to play conquest? Fine. Just check the box. So simple a toddler can figure it out. You don't want to play conquest? Fine. Just uncheck the box. Painfully simple. No dumpster fires. No drama. No endless counts of threads about this or that game mode. Just done. Everybody can just play the modes they like and be happy.

But that's not what PGI wants. They WANT us to eat it. "Here, choke on this, for complaining in the first place. You don't know what you want, or what's good for the game. We'll tell you what you want, and it's THIS."

[Ruar]

I don't care for conquest. It's a game mode you can win without actually fighting. Slow mechs can end the match with almost no action being seen. Fast mechs can lose the match for not playing smart. Which means a good player can be punished for playing smart while a poor player can have too much influence in a loss depending on what mech class they are in.


That being said, I think there is a pretty simple solution for these problems. Slow down the cap timer. Instead of one point per second per flag it should be more like one point per three seconds. Give slow mechs a chance to move around. Make fighting something you need to do because the match lasts longer. Give teams a chance to make up for a crappy player in a fast mech who refuses to cap.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Personally, I like Conquest just fine. I also like Escort, Assault and Domination too. In most cases, it doesn't matter what mech I'm in, I know how the mech I'm bringing plays well enough and understand my play-style and what's needed for the win that no matter what I bring, I can fulfill that role/task. Are some of my mechs more suited to Conquest than others? Certainly! But that's not a significant factor for me.

The only reason why I don't care for Skirmish (or, rather, didn't mention it) is because Assault and Domination more often than not end up playing exactly like Skirmish to the point that I consider those modes "Skirmish + additional objectives"

That doesn't mean Skirmish is bad in my eyes, it's just that when it comes down to voting for a match mode, if I vote for something other than Skirmish (even if I'm in the mood for it), I'm likely going to get Skirmish + flavor by picking the other option.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

I don't complain about conquest. I enjoy victory conditions that shape a given match's combat, and conquest mode often facilitates smaller, lance-on-lance engagements.

I complain about the stupid matchmaker dumping all the heavy slow-movers on one team, and the super-capping fast pack o' lights on the other.

[Snazzy Dragon]

I like conquest, it promotes map control

Unfortunately pugs are bad at that because other gamemodes and map design has trained the terribads to run to the center point of a map and die, or they are the sort that blame the lights and expect them to cap, not knowing that if they are at 30% HP in a heavy they are better off capping and sticking to a capped point to serve as a warning should it be attacked

It does not help that PGI has purposely designed most of the maps to have a strong central focus and the domination gamemode-- they would rather see an arena shooter I suppose, even if it creates predictable and stale gameplay

Forest colony is the extreme example-- nothing valuable save caps on conquest is there, so 95% of the map is just wasted space and scenery most of the time

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 18 February 2017 - 03:48 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Probably Not, on 18 February 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

Also, why the hell did PGI make so many maps "rounded triangles"? Alpine, Polar, and Grim Plexus are all like this. Terra Therma is sort of like that.

It puts emphasis on the center of the map by having fewer corners to worry about and because of where spawns are placed it often makes no sense to use those corners

blame ArenaWarrior Online

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 18 February 2017 - 04:01 PM.