67 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

The Supernova is one of the most disappointed assault release since I joined this game a year and some months ago. The 3 jumpjets is just troll. I thought I could use it as an assault Shadowcat, nope. I can't even make it up the wall of Viridian Bog (the wall on the low trench), so much for 90 meters...

It's a mech full of paradox. It has so much free tonnage with no critical points. It boats light energy weapons without the appropriate heatsink compensation (again, critical slows issue).

But, all of that is expected... (ok, not the jumpjet part... that's just really disappointing), because it's pretty much like the lore described. But the damning thing is the speed. With such slow top speed, it doesn't have the appropriate armor like an Atlas. It can't punch through holes like a Mauler. In the current meta environment that focuses so much on speed, Supernova is a mech that's either way too far behind or way too advanced (here's hoping that X-pulse laser would save it in the future)

Which is the point of connection to the Annihilator.

Like the Supernova, the Annihilator also carries ridiculously small engine. It's the speed of urbie if I recall correctly. Because of the small engine size, I imagine that you would run into the same problem with tonnage vs critical slots. It can't be a gun turret, cause just like the Supernova, it's low hung arm weapons. So while it will look super cool with 4 gauss rifles, you either get to the action when it's beyond saving or already over. Basically, it survives horribly in today's meta.

However, today's meta play is basically assault. These mechs are not designed for assault roles. They are second line, defensive, or support mech. I remember seeing them for the first time in MW3 and be forced to load up some saved games due to their abilities to defend garrisons. (eventually, you remember their spawn locations and just snipe with ERLL)

What I am getting at, is more or less a critique of the static gameplays. Variability in gameplays doesn't just involve making new modes. Smart design of maps can drastically alter the advantage/disadvantage of mechs, and allow mechs of different roles to have the light of days in at least some situations.

I know people have been clamoring for cavern and urban. Come on PGI, make them happen.

(Someone once made a youtube video of mechs in real life... what if we can just straight up fight in Manhattan from Central Park down to Time Square? Best map ever?)

[Lupis Volk]

Disappointment? Man what are people on? I want it banned asap. The SuperNova is a great assault. Though it's not clan ubermench so that might be the issue. It's just average so it's fun for me. no repeat of Cuddles the Care Bear.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 24 February 2017 - 12:15 AM.

[meteorol]

You believed in the annihilator's viability in first place?

[Paigan]

razenWing, on 24 February 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

The Supernova is one of the most disappointed assault release since I joined this game a year and some months ago. The 3 jumpjets is just troll. I thought I could use it as an assault Shadowcat, nope. [...]

Okay, stop right there.

1.)
Anyone who knows the Highlander IIC (90t, 2t JJs) and the Marauder IIC (85t, 1t JJs, fast, tons of laser vomit with good hardpoints and hitboxes AND it looks good as well) already had absolute certainty that the Supernova would be hopelessly inferior to the MAD IIC. The only reason to buy it is if you like the looks more than being as good a help for your team as you can.
One year ago, I dreamed of it. But since the MAD IIC, my interest in the SNV dropped to zero.

It is the first newly released Mech (at least for heavier clans) that didn't flood its weight class queue on the patchday and days to come.
When the MAD IIC was released, we had up to 6 of them in one team.
Supernova: 1 at most, sometimes none at all.
NONE! A new Mech. A laser vomit clan assault Battlemech. None!

Everyone with the slightest sense for Mechs knew long before its release what the rest is slowly finding out now by naive trial and error.

2.)
That Shadow Cat statement regarding an assault Mech fits the usual impression of your posts.
Hilariously nonsensical to the point where it begins to hurt.

3.)
Annihilator viability ...

Edited by Paigan, 24 February 2017 - 12:25 AM.

[Android5000]

The marauder2c can do anything a supernova can do but better. Don't buy it for Cbills or Mc. M2c is a better mech in all ways for less tonnage. Annialhtor is going to be a super slow assault mech with lots of guns. So it's going to be slow moving brick that is worse than a dire wolf. You can't kill mechs that you are to slow to shoot...

[jjm1]

It can win against any single heavies or mediums that decide to stand in its way, as you would require of any assault mech, but I think it struggles with its crawling speed, easy to focus CT, and having its arm mounts thwarted by hills and obstacles in lots of scenarios. Just like the other slow assaults.

You really have to position yourself well, be lucky with the enemy teams composition, hope your team doesn't do the nascar thing or use you as a meat shield for the 2 seconds you'll live under concentrated fire and put up with their moaning because your too slow to rush to their aid after they left you behind.

[Bishop Steiner]

meteorol, on 24 February 2017 - 12:19 AM, said:

You believed in the annihilator's viability in first place?

exactly.

A fat mech with a MAX of a 240 engine, and waist high hardpoints sounded viable because........?

I mean we already have the GOOD version of that idea in the KDK3... except you know... with high speed, high hardpoints and non crap hitboxes.

smh

[Dee Eight]

razenWing, on 24 February 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

The Supernova is one of the most disappointed assault release since I joined this game a year and some months ago. The 3 jumpjets is just troll. I thought I could use it as an assault Shadowcat, nope. I can't even make it up the wall of Viridian Bog (the wall on the low trench), so much for 90 meters...

Its a chicken-walker HGN2C with more energy hardpoints and fewer missile/ballistic options. Expecting it to be anything else is your own fault. Anyone who can do well in an HGN2C will enjoy this mech.

[El Bandito]

razenWing, on 24 February 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

However, today's meta play is basically assault. These mechs are not designed for assault roles.

Nah, the meta is currently peek-a-boo trading until one side starts to crumble. CERPPC has been resurgent.

[meteorol]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 February 2017 - 01:05 AM, said:

exactly.

A fat mech with a MAX of a 240 engine, and waist high hardpoints sounded viable because........?

I mean we already have the GOOD version of that idea in the KDK3... except you know... with high speed, high hardpoints and non crap hitboxes.

smh

I guess a lot of people don't realize how much the game has changed by now. I remember how (back in the days, before clan arrival) people used to argue the KC can't be added to the game because it would be so OP that it would actually break the game.

Look at where we are now. It's a subpar assault with zero influence on the game at all. The annihilator maybe could have been viable years ago. Nowadays, there is no point in releasing it.

[FupDup]

In the Anni's defense, it relies primarily on ballistics so having a low engine cap doesn't hurt it as much as low engine caps hurt energy mechs like the Snova.

On the other hand, the current formula projects the Anni to have a 240 engine, which would be terribad even with the upcoming PTR agility changes.

Even breaking the mold and pushing the engine up to 300, which should totally be done, wouldn't really make it a good gundam (but it would help).

[razenWing]

First of all, let me make it abundantly clear, disappointing does not equate to having buyer's remorse. So, thank you for all of your concern, but no, I don't regret spending 20 (eventually will be 75, to get the collector edition to get one of the best paintjob PGI has come up with) on SNV.

It's disappointing because the tagline for this mech is "The Destroyer of Worlds"

not just one world... worldS. I don't know why I thought PGI would like waive heat penalty for this mech, or give it -50% heat gen quirk, but... it is what it is.

As for the Annihilator, my point is that IF we had scenario where it could succeed (more TMC-esque map, for example), it could be viable. It just wouldn't be viable now because of the high quantity of large space, free form assault battles that require a lot of speed and repositioning. (And yes, El Bandito, that's what I meant by meta. Doesn't matter what weapons you are using. Fast alpha peak, in and out of position... having a slow mech is very detrimental to health in that regard)

With TMC, because the map is small enough, positioning and chokes are uber important. In that sense, I can argue that one can survive with less speed by opting for more firepower. (Not the kind that will cause a heat meltdown in 10 seconds, but that's another issue with SNV all together). What I am saying is not that there should be more TMC spawn, but more TMC-esque mode (Defense/Offense) or maps (Urban + Cavern).

Edited by razenWing, 24 February 2017 - 03:55 AM.

[Acehilator]

The Supernovas are super nice mechs. Not OP, not UP, just at a point were most mechs should be. Not every mech can be the new KDK-3. Technically they are worse than the Marauder IIC (slower, worse hitboxes, less flexibilty), but I still do better (average over all variants) in my Supernovas compared to my Marauders... go figure. Boiler > Scorch anyways.

And the Supernovas are going to "profit" from the incoming changes regarding decoupling of torso twist from engine size, because it will be a nerf for most fast assaults (all that don't get an inherent twist speed bonus).

And if you want to compare the Annihilator to anything in game, it should be the Direwolf, not the Supernova.

[MadHornet]

If I can fit 4 LB-20X's on it, I would buy it so fast.

[LordNothing]

you mean heavy laser, x-pulse is is kit.

[NRP]

It's really hard to do well in an energy boat in this game, especially a Clan energy boat. Having said that, while I haven't seen a lot of Supernovas, the ones I have seen seem to do pretty well. That might be due more to pilot skill than the mech itself, however.

Edited by NRP, 24 February 2017 - 07:43 AM.

[jjm1]

NRP, on 24 February 2017 - 07:42 AM, said:

It's really hard to do well in an energy boat in this game, especially a Clan energy boat. Having said that, while I haven't seen a lot of Supernovas, the ones I have seen seem to do pretty well. That might be due more to pilot skill than the mech itself, however.

99% luck.

roll the dice: you encountered a gaggle of tier 5s standing out in the open: 1k damage, 6 kills.
roll the dice: you encountered a kdk-3 with a hill to peek over: fast zero damage game w/ rage quit

[Gas Guzzler]

Paigan, on 24 February 2017 - 12:21 AM, said:

NONE! A new Mech. A laser vomit clan assault Battlemech. None!

This shouldn't be that much of a surprise. Clan assaults are better off with PPFLD/dakka loadouts anyway. For instance, see how many KDK-1s are running around?

[Gas Guzzler]

For what its worth looking at my top 10 mechs based on average damage (admittedly have a pretty small sample size of SNV matches, but still), there are 2 KDKs, 3 MAD-IICs, 4 SNVs, and 1 SMN (in no particular order).

They definitely aren't ideal in a lot of ways, but they can make things happen. They just aren't very forgiving positioning-wise.

[Jables McBarty]

razenWing, on 24 February 2017 - 12:09 AM, said:

The Supernova is one of the most disappointed assault release since I joined this game a year and some months ago. The 3 jumpjets is just troll. I thought I could use it as an assault Shadowcat, nope. I can't even make it up the wall of Viridian Bog (the wall on the low trench), so much for 90 meters...

It's a mech full of paradox. It has so much free tonnage with no critical points. It boats light energy weapons without the appropriate heatsink compensation (again, critical slows issue).

But, all of that is expected... (ok, not the jumpjet part... that's just really disappointing), because it's pretty much like the lore described. But the damning thing is the speed. With such slow top speed, it doesn't have the appropriate armor like an Atlas. It can't punch through holes like a Mauler. In the current meta environment that focuses so much on speed, Supernova is a mech that's either way too far behind or way too advanced (here's hoping that X-pulse laser would save it in the future)

Which is the point of connection to the Annihilator.

Like the Supernova, the Annihilator also carries ridiculously small engine. It's the speed of urbie if I recall correctly. Because of the small engine size, I imagine that you would run into the same problem with tonnage vs critical slots. It can't be a gun turret, cause just like the Supernova, it's low hung arm weapons. So while it will look super cool with 4 gauss rifles, you either get to the action when it's beyond saving or already over. Basically, it survives horribly in today's meta.

So, I don't have a SNV (for all the reasons enumerated in this thread...also I'm a HGN-IIC owner so I knew the limitations), but I can't help wondering...

...perhaps you're boating the wrong thing?



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