106 replies to this topic

[Clownwarlord]

OK first lets go over some pros and cons:

Pros:
- Adds a new mechanic
- Adds a new weapon
- Adds an overall new aspect of mech on mech action

Cons:
- Very difficult to add into game
- Could be a broken mechanic (as in to good or horribly useless)
- How would you handle some one getting shot as they throw a punch?
- Would you also have to have kicking added?
- Melee weapons, and how they would be handled?

In all honesty I would love the idea of melee in the game but I also see there is so much work that would have to be put into it for it to be effective.

What does the community say and if it does eventually come about to being added what would you think that we would see?

[RestosIII]

No, just because of the facts that it would require knockdowns, which would be "fun" to see them try to implement again after all this time, and it would also have Skyrim syndrome where you smack people around without them reacting at all.

[FupDup]

RestosIII, on 07 February 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

No, just because of the facts that it would require knockdowns...

Citation needed.

What exactly about melee requires mechs to fall over? I'm not seeing the requirement here.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I'd like to see melee in a mechwarrior game... but...

not this one...
not in this style of gameplay with 1 life per match.
not in this type of ttk.
not in this type of enclosed map style where mechs death-ball.
Reasons? Melee animations will simply open you up to so many wrong things. Melee attacks will simply be screaming "HEY! FREE SHOTS ON ME!!!". It'll be like collisions and tipping mechs over all over again. The only difference is that you might be able to dish out some damage.

Melee is just another thing that Noobs will mis-use by using melee when:

• There's more than one enemy nearby.
  
• They have ammo or other weapons available.
  
• They they to combine melee and weapons together
  
• They thing because they're able to melee mechs, it means they should get up close
  
• They open themselves up to being punched in the face as well
  
• They think using melee is best when you're in front of somebody, rather than behind or flanking.

Not to mention, the only way to balance melee in this game is to make it deal absurd amounts of damage. Otherwise what's the friggin' point? So good luck to trying to balance something as situational as melee in a game like this where whiffing on a melee swing will basically paint you the biggest target, causing immediate death while you have dealt absolutely 0 damage.


Melee would be a huge waste of time in MWO. Certainly.


Also - I'm imaging melee attacks, big and slow animations. I know that seeing some firestarter doing Jet Li punches is just going to look so flipping stupid. Some people will go "HAHA NO THAT'D BE AWEEESOOOOOOOOOME, man!"
Yeeah... you're the one out of 10,000 people that would think that.

Melee is only going to work on mechs that have arms. So that rules out a bunch of mechs. So.. have fun trying to balance THAT now... Are armless mechs now useless?
Please don't say "BUT THEY CAN STILL KICK". Because this is now getting ridiculous, and if you are one of those people who say that like it's a good idea, you're trying way too hard to push this melee thing.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 07 February 2017 - 06:59 PM.

[Naglinator]

I would take proper collision detection first..... If it has taken 5 years for that and still not working... then we're looking at 2 decades for melee....

[CK16]

Knowing the average Dorito's and Mountain Dew junky would want it like Call of Duty melee...pass....

Mech melee is not a beautiful thing, its messy, sloppy, and usually would end up your mech getting just as damaged in the attack as the person you want to attack. Mech swords are a laughable joke....mech katana's even worse...and Mech vibroblades....just no......

I would say no, Mech knock down however? YES, my Kodiak really needs to be able to punt a Locust who is trying to naw my legs off.

[MechaBattler]

Yes I want it. I want to punch a jumped up Clanner mech right in the mush with my Banshee. THOSE HANDS WERE MADE FOR PUNCHING!

But yeah I don't think they could code it in a way that it wouldn't be abused.

I'll go win the lotto to buyout the company and make it happen, you guys wait here.

[RestosIII]

FupDup, on 07 February 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

Citation needed.

What exactly about melee requires mechs to fall over? I'm not seeing the requirement here.

If I punch/kick a Locust in an Atlas, it better fall down. Otherwise, it's going to be some of the goofiest garbage I've ever seen.

[MoonUnitBeta]

RestosIII, on 07 February 2017 - 06:54 PM, said:

If I punch/kick a Locust in an Atlas, it better fall down. Otherwise, it's going to be some of the goofiest garbage I've ever seen.

Locust special melee attack.

[Ori Disciple]

I'd like melee. Punching with an Atlas sounds cool.

[FupDup]

RestosIII, on 07 February 2017 - 06:54 PM, said:

If I punch/kick a Locust in an Atlas, it better fall down. Otherwise, it's going to be some of the goofiest garbage I've ever seen.

So basically, it's not a coding or mechanical requirement, it's a requirement for your power fantasy of being the biggest and most powerful thing on the battlefield.

[RestosIII]

FupDup, on 07 February 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

So basically, it's not a coding or mechanical requirement, it's a requirement for your power fantasy of being the biggest and most powerful thing on the battlefield.

What's the point of melee if you don't get some sort of feedback for your hits? the new Battletech game looks like it has it right, where mechs properly react to getting smacked around, but take that out? It would horribly damage my immersion to see people just standing there swinging at each other and not reacting.

[FupDup]

RestosIII, on 07 February 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

What's the point of melee if you don't get some sort of feedback for your hits? the new Battletech game looks like it has it right, where mechs properly react to getting smacked around, but take that out? It would horribly damage my immersion to see people just standing there swinging at each other and not reacting.

The feedback is the sound of crunching metal and the target mech having an animation that it just got hit (e.g. torso swings a bit, arms flail, etc.).

Why does the target have to be completely helpless and stunlocked on the ground for several seconds for you to be immersed?

Edited by FupDup, 07 February 2017 - 07:14 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Melee needs to happen eventually. There are two ways to implement it:

1 - Restrict it to hatchets (and eventually swords and such) only.
1a - This opens up several new designs, not least of which are the Nightsky/Hatchetman/Axman/Berserker set.
1b - Implement it as a weapon. It is included in your weapon list like any other weapon and is fired the same way.
1c - Make the mechanics super simple. Fire the weapon and the arm it is on will simply hack forward with the hatchet in the direction of the arm crosshair. If it hits a mech at some point along the path, it does damage just like a super short ranged gun. There might be some potential issues with weapons on the same arm as the hatchet, but they can probably be worked around.

2 - Restrict it to punches and hatchets only.
2a - This lets mechs like the Atlas and so on get a boost in a brawl. It also gives you two options for the hatchet, making it something any mech with a Hand Actuator can use, or make it a new category with its own hardpoint type.
2b - Implement it as a melee button. I would have it default to whichever arm has a hatchet or, if either both or neither are so armed, then have it default to the right arm until that is destroyed and left arm thereafter (or make it a menu option so you can choose which side to default punch with). Arms without hand actuators wouldn't work so even if you picked left arm on a mech with a HA only on the right it would punch with the right since the left wouldn't be valid.
2c - Keep the mechanic simple. When you press the button it simply extends the arm toward the arm crosshair and if the fist impacts a mech it deals damage.

For the mechanics of hitting, you wouldn't even need proper collisions and such. All you need is an intersection detector. If the arm passes into the target so be it, as long as the game figures out that the punch landed.

[RestosIII]

FupDup, on 07 February 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

The feedback is the sound of crunching metal and the target mech having an animation that it just got hit (e.g. torso swings a bit, arms flail, etc.).

Why does the target have to be completely helpless and stunlocked on the ground for several seconds for you to be immersed?

If a 320 lb weight lifter ran up to and punched a 100 lb person, that's running full speed, in the face with all their force, do you think they'd just slightly twist to the side, or would they fall flat on their rear? Because that's basically an Atlas punching a Locust. It would seriously mess with me to see anything otherwise with melee.

[FupDup]

RestosIII, on 07 February 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

If a 320 lb weight lifter ran up to and punched a 100 lb person, that's running full speed, in the face with all their force, do you think they'd just slightly twist to the side, or would they fall flat on their rear? Because that's basically an Atlas punching a Locust. It would seriously mess with me to see anything otherwise with melee.

I'm more concerned about the "gameplay" standpoint here.

As in, a mech falling either on its face or on its butt is going to pretty much die every single time. Being immobilized for several seconds is an automatic ggclose because of the amount of firepower that our mechs can put out in a short time frame. It's especially very easy to kill them since you can very easily headshot the mech (if on their back) or their rear torso armor (if on their face).

It sounds fun when you're the one who's on the giving end, but would you enjoy it if you were the one on the ground for five seconds, and all you can do is watch yourself get shot to pieces without being able to twist your torso or fire your weapons?

[RestosIII]

FupDup, on 07 February 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

I'm more concerned about the "gameplay" standpoint here.

As in, a mech falling either on its face or on its butt is going to pretty much die every single time. Being immobilized for several seconds is an automatic ggclose because of the amount of firepower that our mechs can put out in a short time frame. It's especially very easy to kill them since you can very easily headshot the mech (if on their back) or their rear torso armor (if on their face).

It sounds fun when you're the one who's on the giving end, but would you enjoy it if you were the one on the ground for five seconds, and all you can do is watch yourself get shot to pieces without being able to twist your torso or fire your weapons?

I'd enjoy it because there's no way in hell that I'm going to get within punching range of an Atlas with a light mech. I have the speed and agility to stay out of that range, I should be using it.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Only if they have polearms.



Now if they added a futuristic bardiche in the mix....



Then this would be literally my face when every match.

[FupDup]

RestosIII, on 07 February 2017 - 07:35 PM, said:

I'd enjoy it because there's no way in hell that I'm going to get within punching range of an Atlas with a light mech. I have the speed and agility to stay out of that range, I should be using it.

Knockdowns aren't a melee-only thing. If PGI did add them, they'd also be tied to ranged weapons and the mere act of touching other mechs (including your allies).

I hope you enjoy the massive 50 PPFLD alphas having a considerable chance of knocking down their already devastated victim, and I also hope you enjoy being constantly knocked over by your teammates brushing up against you.

Such immersion, wow.

Edited by FupDup, 07 February 2017 - 07:40 PM.

[cazidin]

Am I the only one who sees PGI throwing melee weapons into the game and pushing off the melee combat for a few months only to scrap it and say "Well, at least you got the Hatchetman Mechpack... you're welcome!"