142 replies to this topic

[CeeKay Boques]

Zakski, on 15 December 2011 - 11:50 AM, said:

It a rush, the same way Bush's "shock and awe" iraq campaign is a rush, i.e. the general state of mobile warfare these days. Also my arma disk is elsewhere

Luckily for you, Arma 2 is F2P with low textures.

http://www.arma2.com/free

[Evgeny Bear]

Yeah... rush is like "common lets build a mob, and **** on the others"

in World of Tanks you left behi d scouts and arty and just mob arround like an Ork horde...
That has nothing to do with tactics or skill.
Its just simple drive in and shoot at everything.

I really hope MWO will not go this way


or even better

the Lemming rush.

Rushing a well placed deffence just because "I WANT KILL" and in the end the team lost with Total defeat and only 2 enemies killed

Edited by Andar89, 15 December 2011 - 11:55 AM.

[TheRulesLawyer]

I'd love to see battlefield style conquest battles for sure. I'm not sure it impossible to have them without respawn, but games without respawn seem to end up a death match until one side has an overwhelming advantage most of the time. Smart objective placement could help with that though.

[Zakski]

Andar89, on 15 December 2011 - 11:54 AM, said:

Yeah... rush is like "common lets build a mob, and **** on the others"

in World of Tanks you left behi d scouts and arty and just mob arround like an Ork horde...
That has nothing to do with tactics or skill.
Its just simple drive in and shoot at everything.

I really hope MWO will not go this way


or even better

the Lemming rush.

Rushing a well placed deffence just because "I WANT KILL" and in the end the team lost with Total defeat and only 2 enemies killed

In the conventional sense, I guess, but its a little more than slightly off topic.

So to drift back I'll say this.

Quite frankly, for team games, I prefer some manner of respawning; not that respawning is a magic bullet, it introduces restraints on how a good few other things can be handled.

[MaddMaxx]

TheRulesLawyer, on 15 December 2011 - 11:59 AM, said:

I'd love to see battlefield style conquest battles for sure. I'm not sure it impossible to have them without respawn, but games without respawn seem to end up a death match until one side has an overwhelming advantage most of the time. Smart objective placement could help with that though.

Or a Team could be penalized for damage taken during the course of the Objective. That could leave a tactical approach as the only way to really win, as total annihilation of the other side is not the Objective and doing so FAILS the actual mission parameters.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 15 December 2011 - 12:05 PM.

[Evgeny Bear]

I would only be happy if I gain the salvage rights of the fallen mechs if my team wins.
If something like the Tonnage and BV thingy gets in.

And to find a consense. Respawns only if the remaining teammembers of the first Wave can acomplish their objective
and conquered a respawn point. Than Wave 2 can jump in via dropship and reinforce the Wave 1 Lance.
Everything limted

[Zakski]

MaddMaxx, on 15 December 2011 - 12:04 PM, said:

Or a Team could be penalized for damage taken during the course of the Objective. That could leave a tactical approach as the only way to really win, as total annihilation of the other side is not the Objective and doing so FAILS the actual mission parameters.

People failing because they killed off the other side, is counter-intuitive unless it some sort of scouting mission, You should never be put in a situation where the enemy is firing at, you have nowhere to escape and if you kill him you get penalised, that would be crazy.

[Omigir]

Ok, spawning, (IF ITS IMPLIMENTED) very easily could be you either get placed into a lance, or you chose friends to lance up with. You then orbital drop on a lance mate once you respawn. Easy way to do it. Its also on topic.

[MaddMaxx]

Zakski, on 15 December 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

People failing because they killed off the other side, is counter-intuitive unless it some sort of scouting mission, You should never be put in a situation where the enemy is firing at, you have nowhere to escape and if you kill him you get penalized, that would be crazy.

Unless the Contractor didn't want to **** off the owner of the Planet the Objective was on. Open your mind to the possibility please.

[Zakski]

Andar89, on 15 December 2011 - 12:06 PM, said:

And to find a consense. Respawns only if the remaining teammembers of the first Wave can acomplish their objective
and conquered a respawn point. Than Wave 2 can jump in via dropship and reinforce the Wave 1 Lance.
Everything limted

This could actually work, it may need a bit of tweaking, say the commander of the group can call down x amount of waves of reinforcements per point, slap in a time limit that the defender need to defend for and bobs your uncle.

MaddMaxx, on 15 December 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

Unless the Contractor didn't want to **** off the owner of the Planet the Objective was on. Open your mind to the possibility please.

Mechs are not subtle things, if the contractor hires you to destroy/capture/kill something on someone else's planet, he is invariably going to **** someone off.

Edit: Also from what we have seen, we are probably not going to get a complex eve-like contract system, which isn't exactly a bad thing.

Edited by Zakski, 15 December 2011 - 12:49 PM.

[Havoc2]

MaddMaxx, on 15 December 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

Unless the Contractor didn't want to **** off the owner of the Planet the Objective was on. Open your mind to the possibility please.

Because stealing intel / stealing assets / destroying assets wouldn't **** them off, but killing a few 'Mechs would?

[IceSerpent]

TheRulesLawyer, on 15 December 2011 - 11:02 AM, said:

I never said this was a hardcore group. This is just what happens with a group of friends tries to get together for a few games at night between wives/childred/girlfriends etc. Its certainly not a PUG. That would be a non issue as you just dump them and find a new group. This sort of stuff is exactly how a group of people trying to play together breaks up with pretty typical players.

How would you just "get together for a few games" in a faction based game? If you form a unit, you attack/defend as a unit. My understanding of what the devs told us so far is that one's choices of battles to join will be limited by affiliation. So, you get killed 30 secs into the fight, where are you going to find that "other battle" to join? If you are talking about arena style, free-for-all game mode, you can drop from it as soon as your primary match finishes.

Also, to address the point regarding large maps, multiple objectives, etc. Respawn/no-respawn makes no difference here - you can still do "5 objectives" campaign/mission with no respawn, it would simply be 5 separate drops instead of one continuous battle.

[Evgeny Bear]

IceSerpent, on 15 December 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

How would you just "get together for a few games" in a faction based game? If you form a unit, you attack/defend as a unit. My understanding of what the devs told us so far is that one's choices of battles to join will be limited by affiliation. So, you get killed 30 secs into the fight, where are you going to find that "other battle" to join? If you are talking about arena style, free-for-all game mode, you can drop from it as soon as your primary match finishes.

Also, to address the point regarding large maps, multiple objectives, etc. Respawn/no-respawn makes no difference here - you can still do "5 objectives" campaign/mission with no respawn, it would simply be 5 separate drops instead of one continuous battle.

Yeah thats what I mean with the compromiss in waves.
Its a set amout of players, and if one is down he can rejoin in another mech when a objective is taken.
If he has no more mech available in his Bay (or at the Dropship-->pre combat preperations) he can leave the game.
Another player could take over if so.

This would also be only reasonable for bigger Corp operations for planetary invasions

all inoperable mechs will be left on the battlefield, and the winning side can salvage them.

Salvage can be randomly given to each Lances
(points for damaging/final blow, mech chassis to the best player of the lance)


thought about this while cooking dinner xD

Edited by Andar89, 15 December 2011 - 02:50 PM.

[TheRulesLawyer]

IceSerpent, on 15 December 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

How would you just "get together for a few games" in a faction based game? If you form a unit, you attack/defend as a unit. My understanding of what the devs told us so far is that one's choices of battles to join will be limited by affiliation. So, you get killed 30 secs into the fight, where are you going to find that "other battle" to join? If you are talking about arena style, free-for-all game mode, you can drop from it as soon as your primary match finishes.

Seriously have people never played online with friends before? You all join the same faction. You all get online and jump into whatever matchmaker the game has as a group. It places you in an appropriate faction battle. This is really really basic stuff.

[IceSerpent]

TheRulesLawyer, on 15 December 2011 - 02:49 PM, said:

Seriously have people never played online with friends before? You all join the same faction. You all get online and jump into whatever matchmaker the game has as a group. It places you in an appropriate faction battle. This is really really basic stuff.

We are not on the same page here...let's say you and your friends are affiliated with FedSuns. At this particular moment there's an ongoing raid against the Combine that you all are participating in. If you get your mech shot to pieces and decide to join another raid/assault, you will need to find one that your affiliation allows you to join. I doubt that MW-O will let you join, let's say, FWL vs. Liao fight because you have no standing with either side. Even if you find a suitable battle that's going on at the same time, what makes you think that there would be any open slots in that fight?

Granted, we don't know how exactly meta-game is going to work exactly, but I just don't see how a normal matchmaker would function in battletech setup. There probably will be some sort of a queue or match making mechanism, but it will be governed by the meta-game rules and is unlikely to be as simple as "jump into whatever game is available" - that "whatever game" will have to be initiated somehow, presumably by CO of a unit. If your unit initiates a planetary assault, that doesn't mean that members of my unit can join/leave your fight at a whim, even if we belong to the same house.

[MaddMaxx]

}{avoc, on 15 December 2011 - 12:53 PM, said:

Because stealing intel / stealing assets / destroying assets wouldn't **** them off, but killing a few 'Mechs would?

Not if they didn't know how that Intel was actually stolen right? Sneak in, get a look at a new piece of secret tech, record said tech and make it back home. Paid in Full. Get caught or have to fight your way out to survive, and the contractor can simply disavow any knowledge of your existence. Let alone it was you who sent them. Your word vs mine. You know "real espionage".

Plenty of time for run and gun lads. Everyone asks for game Depth and the like and then balk at real Intel based type missions. Jeeze already.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 15 December 2011 - 03:13 PM.

[Dlardrageth]

PGI could just introduce a penalty for respawning. Reduce earnings and salvage chances by 33% with each respawn. so you end up with a whooping 1% of the original score at third. If the objective was not to encourage leeroying suicider gameplay, that should be no issue, right? After all, we're talking about matches of 20 minutes max. (according to PGI), so if you need a couple of respawns, you're doing it wrong... somewhat.

If the objective is to dumb the game sufficiently down by limitless respawning to rob it of any tactical challenge, well, then I'd rather have no respawning at all. Or make one game mode with perma-respawn where the suicide junkies can have their day and don't bother the rest of us with it? Because if I have to kill the same dumb leeroying guy the 3rd time in the same match, that sure as hell would be bothersome.

Edited by Dlardrageth, 15 December 2011 - 03:17 PM.

[Zakski]

IceSerpent, on 15 December 2011 - 03:03 PM, said:

We are not on the same page here...let's say you and your friends are affiliated with FedSuns. At this particular moment there's an ongoing raid against the Combine that you all are participating in. If you get your mech shot to pieces and decide to join another raid/assault, you will need to find one that your affiliation allows you to join. I doubt that MW-O will let you join, let's say, FWL vs. Liao fight because you have no standing with either side. Even if you find a suitable battle that's going on at the same time, what makes you think that there would be any open slots in that fight?

Granted, we don't know how exactly meta-game is going to work exactly, but I just don't see how a normal matchmaker would function in battletech setup. There probably will be some sort of a queue or match making mechanism, but it will be governed by the meta-game rules and is unlikely to be as simple as "jump into whatever game is available" - that "whatever game" will have to be initiated somehow, presumably by CO of a unit. If your unit initiates a planetary assault, that doesn't mean that members of my unit can join/leave your fight at a whim, even if we belong to the same house.

What makes you think if I died and had to wait, I would want play another mission or match of MWO? I mean I might, but after dying a few times, I would go play another game entirely, say for instance MechCommander2. Also if went into another FedCom match it still splits the team.

MaddMaxx, on 15 December 2011 - 03:10 PM, said:

Not if they didn't know how that Intel was actually stolen right? Sneak in, get a look at a new piece of Secret tech, record said tech and go home. Paid in Full. Get caught and the contractor can simply disavow any knowledge of your existence. Let alone it was you who sent them.

everyone asks for game Depth and the like and then balk at real Intel based type missions.

That's not real a team job though, I would just send one poor guy in a raven, not an entire lance or company

Edited by Zakski, 15 December 2011 - 03:20 PM.

[CeeKay Boques]

IceSerpent, on 15 December 2011 - 03:03 PM, said:

We are not on the same page here...let's say you and your friends are affiliated with FedSuns. At this particular moment there's an ongoing raid against the Combine that you all are participating in. If you get your mech shot to pieces and decide to join another raid/assault, you will need to find one that your affiliation allows you to join. I doubt that MW-O will let you join, let's say, FWL vs. Liao fight because you have no standing with either side. Even if you find a suitable battle that's going on at the same time, what makes you think that there would be any open slots in that fight?

Granted, we don't know how exactly meta-game is going to work exactly, but I just don't see how a normal matchmaker would function in battletech setup. There probably will be some sort of a queue or match making mechanism, but it will be governed by the meta-game rules and is unlikely to be as simple as "jump into whatever game is available" - that "whatever game" will have to be initiated somehow, presumably by CO of a unit. If your unit initiates a planetary assault, that doesn't mean that members of my unit can join/leave your fight at a whim, even if we belong to the same house.

This is horrifyingly bad news for people that want to play in leagues, let alone play a friendly game not run by our Mech Overlords. They said "Lots and lots of Servers". You think its going to be matchmaker only? Man I sure hope not... *looks WoT*... I bet you are though.

I hope you enjoy playing with my children and their friends on your faction! They're almost 10!

Edited by Technoviking, 15 December 2011 - 03:21 PM.

[TheRulesLawyer]

IceSerpent, on 15 December 2011 - 03:03 PM, said:

We are not on the same page here...let's say you and your friends are affiliated with FedSuns. At this particular moment there's an ongoing raid against the Combine that you all are participating in. If you get your mech shot to pieces and decide to join another raid/assault, you will need to find one that your affiliation allows you to join. I doubt that MW-O will let you join, let's say, FWL vs. Liao fight because you have no standing with either side. Even if you find a suitable battle that's going on at the same time, what makes you think that there would be any open slots in that fight?

Granted, we don't know how exactly meta-game is going to work exactly, but I just don't see how a normal matchmaker would function in battletech setup. There probably will be some sort of a queue or match making mechanism, but it will be governed by the meta-game rules and is unlikely to be as simple as "jump into whatever game is available" - that "whatever game" will have to be initiated somehow, presumably by CO of a unit. If your unit initiates a planetary assault, that doesn't mean that members of my unit can join/leave your fight at a whim, even if we belong to the same house.

I sure hope there is a going system that will place you in an appropriate battle at any time. Scheduled battles really suck. I've wasted enough of my life on those.