46 replies to this topic

[Snowbluff]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2017 - 11:53 AM, said:

it also removed the grip of the Corrupt Jedi order from the galaxy. IIRC it was the Jedi, not the Seperationists who used an enslaved army of sentient beings given no choice but to fight and die at their command.... all to keep individual planets from exerting their right of self determination.

Uh, Battledroids were self aware, and the clone army was made by a rogue jedi as part of a sith plot, and then adopted as an army, by a Sith chancellor.

Man, it's like people didn't even watch those movies... they're better for it I guess.

Edited by Snowbluff, 01 March 2017 - 02:47 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Snowbluff, on 01 March 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

Uh, Battledroids were self aware, and the clone army was made by a rogue jedi as part of a sith plot, and then adopted as an army, by a Sith chancellor.

Man, it's like people didn't even watch those movies... they're better for it I guess.

and still willingly led by the "good guys" to the point that they would even hunt down and "bring to justice" any clone that deserted the Grand Army of the Republic because they DIDN'T want to fight.

BTW.... the Clone Wars cartoon is amazeballs, over all... but it doesn't change the fact the prequels were still unmitigated shite.

[Snowbluff]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

and still willingly led by the "good guys" to the point that they would even hunt down and "bring to justice" any clone that deserted the Grand Army of the Republic because they DIDN'T want to fight.

BTW.... the Clone Wars cartoon is amazeballs, over all... but it doesn't change the fact the prequels were still unmitigated shite.

Pressed into service by duty in a war completely fabricated by sith, bring justice through rules established by a sith in power, that they were mandated to uphold for the Republic. In short, Jedi are ascetic uphold order to the best of their ability, and are not not evil. Sith are self centered, greedy, therefore evil (at times it seems like they can't help it).

Clone Wars does get my +1.

[Bishop Steiner]

Snowbluff, on 01 March 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

Pressed into service by duty in a war completely fabricated by sith, bring justice through rules established by a sith in power, that they were mandated to uphold for the Republic. In short, Jedi are ascetic uphold order to the best of their ability, and are not not evil. Sith are self centered, greedy, therefore evil (at times it seems like they can't help it).

Clone Wars does get my +1.

Same defense many German Soldiers used in WW2.

As the so called upholders of Good and Order, the Jedi should not have willingly become military generals, and again, choosing to use a slave army, to force planets to be subject to the Republic. You can paint it how you like, their intentions may have been "good" their actions, not, which was time and again painted and explored in the Clone Wars cartoon, especially the final season or two, when the Order 66 implant is almost discovered....

The entire point was that while the Sith were indeed evil, the Jedi had lost their way and become trapped within their own narrow ritual, to the point there WAS no good guy. Which is why in "balancing the Force" Anakin ended up tearing down BOTH orders.

[0bsidion]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

and still willingly led by the "good guys" to the point that they would even hunt down and "bring to justice" any clone that deserted the Grand Army of the Republic because they DIDN'T want to fight.

BTW.... the Clone Wars cartoon is amazeballs, over all... but it doesn't change the fact the prequels were still unmitigated shite.

Yeah, it's kinda sad really, they had some of best special affects, and Darth Maul added a whole other level of choreography, that some how got mixed in with probably the worst dialog ever and then there was Jar Jar who was a in a realm of terribad characters all his own. Just when you thought Lucas couldn't do any worse than Ewoks.

[Bishop Steiner]

0bsidion, on 01 March 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

Yeah, it's kinda sad really, they had some of best special affects, and Darth Maul added a whole other level of choreography, that some how got mixed in with probably the worst dialog ever and then there was Jar Jar who was a in a realm of terribad characters all his own. Just when you thought Lucas couldn't do any worse than Ewoks.

Ewoks get a unfair bad rap, just for being cute.

Little b@st@rds captured a Wookie and a bunch of armed humans twice their size.... and were planning to EAT them. Then beat the hell out of the Empire with sticks and stones.

The real question should be..... remember all those storm trooper helmets used as drums at the end? What did the Ewoks do to the meat INSIDE dem cans?

*Hint.... Stormtrooper Jerky



Chimpanzees are all cute and stuff too... until they tear your arm out of socket. (being less than half our size..but more than three times stronger)

[Snowbluff]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

The entire point was that while the Sith were indeed evil, the Jedi had lost their way and become trapped within their own narrow ritual, to the point there WAS no good guy. Which is why in "balancing the Force" Anakin ended up tearing down BOTH orders.

Except it was the sith who cause the losses to the Jedi way of life. It worked fine before then, no paint needed. In fact, that's a failing of the whole "point" of the Clone Wars. The Jedi weren't doing anything wrong of their own volition. They were manipulated into doing so by the Sith.

It's like putting someone in a room for days, with only a sandwich with a note on top that says "my sandwich, don't steal," then when they eat the sandwich because they are starving to death, you have them arrested.

And as for German soldiers, wayward clones were a legitimate potential danger to civilians. It's kind of what happens when the Sith breed something only for killing. Past that, when you are in a fight for your society's survival, morals do get tossed to the wayside. However, given the change back to normal operations, they would have gone back to the constructive society they were. That is to say, false equivalency.

0bsidion, on 01 March 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

Yeah, it's kinda sad really, they had some of best special affects, and Darth Maul added a whole other level of choreography, that some how got mixed in with probably the worst dialog ever and then there was Jar Jar who was a in a realm of terribad characters all his own. Just when you thought Lucas couldn't do any worse than Ewoks.

I was watching the cruiser crash landing in the start of Ep.3. I think the effect holds up.

Edited by Snowbluff, 01 March 2017 - 03:11 PM.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

Chimpanzees are all cute and stuff too... until they tear your arm out of socket. (being less than half our size..but more than three times stronger)

[Valdarion Silarius]

Star wars in MY battletech? HELL NO!



(I dream of seeing a mech lance just swiping the floors of the ****** storm troopers, AT-AT's and AT-ST's of star wars just to see how triggered the fanboys would get.)

[Snowbluff]

Arnold The Governator, on 01 March 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

(I dream of seeing a mech lance just swiping the floors of the ****** storm troopers, AT-AT's and AT-ST's of star wars just to see how triggered the fanboys would get.)

Meh, Star Wars navies are much more formidable than their Battletech equivalents.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Snowbluff, on 01 March 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

Meh, Star Wars navies are much more formidable than their Battletech equivalents.

Please. The only thing I need to do is find the self destruct button for your Executor and Deathstar.

[Bishop Steiner]

Snowbluff, on 01 March 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

Except it was the sith who cause the losses to the Jedi way of life. It worked fine before then, no paint needed. In fact, that's a failing of the whole "point" of the Clone Wars. The Jedi weren't doing anything wrong of their own volition. They were manipulated into doing so by the Sith.

It's like putting someone in a room for days, with only a sandwich with a note on top that says "my sandwich, don't steal," then when they eat the sandwich because they are starving to death, you have them arrested.

And as for German soldiers, wayward clones were a legitimate potential danger to civilians. It's kind of what happens when the Sith breed something only for killing. Past that, when you are in a fight for your society's survival, morals do get tossed to the wayside. However, given the change back to normal operations, they would have gone back to the constructive society they were. That is to say, false equivalency.

I was watching the cruiser crash landing in the start of Ep.3. I think the effect holds up.

Jedi Sympathizer, noted. Wrong, but so it goes. My Jedi, right or wrong, MY JEDI!

[Felicitatem Parco]

Snowbluff, on 01 March 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

Meh, Star Wars navies are much more formidable than their Battletech equivalents.

Psh... Anyone who engages within 100km is seriously amateurish.

[Kalimaster]

I never thought that I'd see the day when the Bushmaster joins the darkside. Nice paint job dude. I guess I'm going to have to outfit my Locust with Ewok Pilots now if I am ever going to stand a chance against you.

[Battlemaster56]

Arnold The Governator, on 01 March 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

Star wars in MY battletech? HELL NO!



(I dream of seeing a mech lance just swiping the floors of the ****** storm troopers, AT-AT's and AT-ST's of star wars just to see how triggered the fanboys would get.)

Eh if even rebels can simply survive traveling the wild space without getting lost, or worse. They'll be lucky if they avoid Thrawn's, Vader's, or Tarkan's fleet in battle.

[Snowbluff]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

Jedi Sympathizer, noted. Wrong, but so it goes. My Jedi, right or wrong, MY JEDI!

Hey, we know you are wrong!
What was your complaint? "Jedi are too insular/set in their ways."

Who is the last Jedi to confront Palpatine? Mace Windu.
His area of expertise? Channeling and redirecting the dark side. He demonstrates this by redirecting Palpaltine's lightning. Set in the jedi ways, he is not.

Darth Vader's (a sith) complaint? Killing Palpatine wasn't right. This is being set in his ways. Absolutely do the Jedi thing.
A jedi Koan: "Only the Sith deal in absolutes." Normally, it's not literal. It's a koan meant to invoke thought, but here it is true.

Mace Response? No, kill him. He is right, of course. Leaving Palpatine alive could me him escaping and finding a new apprentice and starting the cycle anew, and actually leads to bloody civil war that kills millions.

So if we agree that there is supposed to be a mesage about the Jedi (which I don't, the movie isn't that smart), the message at the end is that the remaining Jedi are not set in their ways, but the Sith are.

Edited by Snowbluff, 01 March 2017 - 10:41 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Battlemaster56, on 01 March 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

Eh if even rebels can simply survive traveling the wild space without getting lost, or worse. They'll be lucky if they avoid Thrawn's, Vader's, or Tarkan's fleet in battle.

And I think alot of people underestimate battletech's space fleet and aerial combat capabilities. Now I'm not sure how lore accurate the star wars movies are to the lore (nor that I really care to), but if a rebel a-wing can crash into an executor thus blow up a deathstar (lol), then what is to say that a well orchestrated clan can send a few visigoths to target a shield generator and/or send a few dropships with covering fire to breach the hull with a few mechs?

Don't forget about clan Ghost Bear's Leviathan II. That would seem like a very capable warship.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Leviathan_II

[Battlemaster56]

Arnold The Governator, on 01 March 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

And I think alot of people underestimate battletech's space fleet and aerial combat capabilities. Now I'm not sure how lore accurate the star wars movies are to the lore (nor that I really care to), but if a rebel a-wing can crash into an executor thus blow up a deathstar (lol), then what is to say that a well orchestrated clan can send a few visigoths to target a shield generator and/or send a few dropships with covering fire to breach the hull with a few mechs?

Don't forget about clan Ghost Bear's Leviathan II. That would seem like a very capable warship.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Leviathan_II

Vader's Super Star Destroyer was out of position for most of the battle following orders to stay, and forward shields wasn't up. But if it was in the battle the rebel fleet couldn't win as Executor class Star destroyers are built to solo and entire fleet and conquer entire planets without reinforcements. And their were around 15 in legends, and 6 in canon and in both their one that have stealth capabilities.

Also a super star destroyer is not large and or heavy enough to do any remote damage to the DS2 battle station. It core was destroyed by the millennium falcon. Also Idk bout Battletech starships that much.

[Snowbluff]

Arnold The Governator, on 01 March 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

And I think alot of people underestimate battletech's space fleet and aerial combat capabilities. Now I'm not sure how lore accurate the star wars movies are to the lore (nor that I really care to), but if a rebel a-wing can crash into an executor thus blow up a deathstar (lol), then what is to say that a well orchestrated clan can send a few visigoths to target a shield generator and/or send a few dropships with covering fire to breach the hull with a few mechs?

Don't forget about clan Ghost Bear's Leviathan II. That would seem like a very capable warship.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Leviathan_II

The standard Star Destroyers are only slightly smaller than the LII. There were 25,000 of these. We never really get to see how formidable they are, as the only major engagement with them in the movies, they were just holding position for the Emperor's trap.

And for sending mechs or fighters at them, they carry 72 fighters each. While this seems smaller than a LII's capacity (300?), the number of star destroyers would simply outnumber them. In short, Star Wars is meant to operate on an insanely large galactic scale. I'd say the technology is a little further along as well (judging by stories concerning inter galactic travel being a possibility). They're really different franchises all in all.

[Philosophical]

carry on..