358 replies to this topic

[K19]

Good. A note of version 2 Skills tree.

1º I'm having trouble using a mech with zero Xp the "Convert XP" does not work or I do not know how to use. When I open the menu there is no mech name or XP.

2º In the mech lab part of the "skills" in the menu "Current Mech Enhancemnts" nothing appears to activate XP or GXP is an error and if you try to use "Convert XP" does not work.

3º Change of code in the game PC seems to spend more memory with the images of Skills tree

[SuperFunkTron]

Do velocity nodes have any effect on PPCs?

[Cpt Contego]

Nutta88, on 02 March 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

I don't mind the cost of the skill "tree" but don't like the maze like nature of it. Just fitting the current set of skills and modules into a skill maze feels broken and an unnecessary change.

If you want the skill matix to have relationships then the “skills” should effect each other. Link the effect of the skills within the current branches and between them.

e.g. have speed tweak increase max speed but also decrease acceleration and have acceleration decrease max speed.

Though all of this needs for the current balance at least to be at least maintained. The lights on the test server feel like tanks. I am guessing that this is either a deliberate “test” or an oversite.

On live a mist lynx has +60 accel +60 decl +45 turn

On test this becomes +25 +25 and +20… after you have all the skills.

No one would ever pick a light that is performing like a heavy. It is bad enough testing light performance in 4v4 but this makes them silly.

The skill maze feels overly complicated, not adding to the game. The skills could be linear choices but with drawbacks. The drawback could start low and move high as you progress down a path.

Increase in Sensor Range - Increases the time to gather target info
Target Gathering info - decreases sensor range.
Target Decay Duration - decreases sensor range.
Radar Deprivation - Reduces Seismic sensor range
Advanced Zoom - ? Maybe increased screen shake.
Seismic sensor range - Reduces Radar deprivation
360 Target retention range - decreases sensor range.
ECM target range reduction - decreases sensor range.

So getting advantage creates a disadvantage, a trade off...

Reduce laser Duration - Increases Cool down
Reduce cool down - Increases Duration
Increase weapon range - Increases Heat gen
Reduce weapon heat gen - Reduces range

uac jam chance reduction - increases cool down
mag cap - ammo explosion chance or reduced damage per shot?

Normally there is a downside to improving something in a certain aspect, the more you improve a particular metric the more you decrease another. A lighter engine may be more fragile etc. It would be nice to make it so a non-levelled machine is not completely out of the game, just different.

I don't mind change, I just would like it to enhance a game that I am enjoying.

I like this +1 from me, this would be a much better way of implementing it

[Wintersdark]

SuperFunkTron, on 02 March 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

Do velocity nodes have any effect on PPCs?

yes.

catspider, on 02 March 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

Mechs that cannot possibly equip a certain type of weapon - ie Black night cannot have balistics - should not have to unlock balistic nodes to get past them

Which ballistic skills does it have to take?

[Xaat Xuun]

I don't think Hard break is working, I still coast the same distance, as if I don't have Hard break, I think it was 2m less with max hard break, essentially no change.

color of locked and unlockable being the same color is very confusing, the pad lock Icon is hard to see/notice. Specially with these old eyes of mine

the cost to get max UAC jam chance reduce, 5% . . is not really worth going for that one, 5%, not enough, and it's just a roll of the dice still. didn't notice any less jamming. The route to get max uac jam chance node is not bad, I would had selected those nodes any ways, but the gain was not there, for the amount of SP spent for it

I , really don't need 6 slots for consumables, but I do like getting the 3rd slot, I could go on playing never having that 3rd slot as well. I like the idea of extra consumable slots being added

I didn't see any gains to the PPC tool tips after Range and Velocity from the weapons tree, does this mean PPC gains nothing from weapons tree, or is it just broke for PPC.
The before and after of getting skills, nothing changed on it

[SuperFunkTron]

Wintersdark, on 02 March 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

yes.

Which ballistic skills does it have to take?

Ok, I think they just need to make sure that it shows when you hover over the PPC then.

[Amro One]

More silly minions forgetting that this is for all players.

[cougurt]

i would recommend just scrapping the whole tree structure, at least for the firepower nodes. my suggestion would be something a little more like the current module unlock system:

the firepower tree would be split up into 3 separate sets of nodes: range, cooldown, and weapon-specific upgrades such as laser duration, projectile velocity, and UAC jam chance. none of these would have any prerequisite unlocks, so you're free to invest in only the things you want. if certain skills are considered to be too powerful, then simply increase the skill point cost required to take them.

range and cooldown would be similar to the modules we have now, only they would become a series of generic nodes which apply to all weapons. the bonuses provided by these nodes could then be distributed among each class of weapons equipped on your mech. for example, let's say unlocking 5 cooldown nodes gives you a total of 50% faster cooldown. you could split that 50% evenly between your ballistics and missiles, or you could go all in on energy.

this would fix the problem of mixed builds having to invest in multiple skill trees, without punishing boats by making them take irrelevant nodes.

[anfadern]

Opened everything regarding agility on a PB locust just to compare how it will act.

It is surprisingly sluggish... Not certain if the skill tree is working properly, but yet again all
the mechs will be affected in various ways so it might be as it is supposed.

If it works as intended. the Locust is worthless. It stops and starts just like a basic mech
with no skills opened in the current system.

[Cyrilis]

Dear PGI...Pls don't nerf the Huggin any more... It is a hardly used Mech anyway and I still remember the times when it was released. great fun... but now, really less fun...

[AgBaphomet]

anfadern, on 02 March 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

Opened everything regarding agility on a PB locust just to compare how it will act.

It is surprisingly sluggish... Not certain if the skill tree is working properly, but yet again all
the mechs will be affected in various ways so it might be as it is supposed.

If it works as intended. the Locust is worthless. It stops and starts just like a basic mech
with no skills opened in the current system.

They are working... kind of.
Have you tried to pilot the mech without skills? It feels like a heavy, just faster.

Every mech is now less maneuverable. The King Crab feels like a star destroyer

[XX BURT XX]

A 100ton post WWII tank could move faster

I am sorry to bring negative feedback again, but honestly I do not see anything good that this update may bring to me, I am a newbie though. I understand the skill grind will bet MUCH longer, MUCH expensive, taking basicaly month of gameplay for me to tune up single mech. In the end I may forget about the mech tunning with skills (this is something that keeps me with the game) and just ocassionaly play stock mechs. Brings also a lot of confusion ( I feel I need user instruction for the tree). Not able to unlock even all I need and forcing to unlock nodes I do not like. Nerf to general mobility and quirks.... So I may call it a general game nerf.

I basicaly feel bad as I play for about a month, sofar liking this game - but this brings to me a lot of negatives I would say. What will exactly improve from current game? I dont see anything yet, wondering why oh why...

The question for me is now - guys can anyone explain to me, which positives over current game will this crap (sorry) bring to me? What makes it a better game after update? I will be happy to learn why is everybody so excited about this update.

Edited by XX BURT XX, 03 March 2017 - 12:31 AM.

[Michal R]

Why I must buy skill that I don't want?
WHY!

[Edward Hazen]

Cyrilis, on 02 March 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

Dear PGI...Pls don't nerf the Huggin any more... It is a hardly used Mech anyway and I still remember the times when it was released. great fun... but now, really less fun...

Aw, come on! The Hugin was OP for a few months until the ridiculous missile quirks were taken away and given to the Oxide (so people who owned Hugins would have a reason to buy the Oxide). Also, do not disrespect all-father Odin's raven Hugin, by calling it "Huggin" or your will forever be cursed to bad luck in battle

Edited by S0ulReapr, 03 March 2017 - 01:50 AM.

[Thomasso]

@PGI

Why did you made simple thing so complicated?

Why not to do skill trees just linear?

Example:

AC Velocity I +5% (1 SP) -> AC Velocity II +5% (1 SP)... and so on.

and.. at the end of each tree you could give as a special bonus for a bigger price in SP (or in C-Bills and/or XP).

In above example it could be: Ultimate AC Velocity + 10% (3 SP).

Another example:
Speed Tweak I +2.5% (1SP)
Speed Tweak II +2.5% (1 SP)
Speed Tweak III +2.5% (1 SP)
Ultimate Speed Tweak +2.5% (3 SP) - it would give us 10% speed bonus (like it was long time before).

????

Edited by Thomasso, 03 March 2017 - 02:08 AM.

[Aleski]

Cyrilis, on 02 March 2017 - 11:20 PM, said:

Dear PGI...Pls don't nerf the Huggin any more... It is a hardly used Mech anyway and I still remember the times when it was released. great fun... but now, really less fun...

I have made some tests with my Huggins and it seems dead and burried right now. It feels sluggish, take a lot of time before stopping when you're at full speed. Going in full reverse speed when you're at top speed forward take an eternity. Impossible to unlock lot of interesting stuff for missiles because the weapons tree is so convoluted and bizarre. Well it's very bad for this chassis... And it takes something like 15 minutes to choose what to unlock because it's so complicated !!!!

For helping this kind of variant, they have to made more nodes for "bad mechs". Like 120 node points on chassis who deserve it, like Pretty Baby, Huggin, some vindicators, Javelin, Commando, Lolcust, Gargoyle, etc...


What about the newbies ? Their eyes will blead when they will open the skill tree for the first time. Even for a vet you have to study the goddamn thing and take some notes on paper... AAAAAAAARGH !!!!

And i don't talk about some nodes that are completely randomly put in trees. Like, for exemple, you have a grid Iron and want the Gauss charge limit increase : four nodes are on the right of the tree, but the fifth is completely lost in the middle of ballisitic nodes !!!? This make no sense at all. And we have this kind of problem in all of the trees !

Other exemple : i want to unlock speed tweak on my Pirate Bane, I HAVE the obligation to take some agility arm nodes !!! This makes no sense ! PB has no weapons on his arms ! PGI your skill tree is so random it makes me think you have use the dartboard of quirks again when creating it ! It's impossible to release something that convoluted and complicating on a game like that... Really. It will takes hours to respec all fo my mechs ( something like 120 chassis)... Come on !
And for the newbies it will be horrible : if they made only one mistake when specs their mechs, they will have to respend XP to made their trees again... Yeah punish the new players, it will help the player base to grow... Damned i can't believe you have made some meetings and think those random trees are great ! That's insane.

[XX BURT XX]

How about putting some interestng things in the game...the mech world screams for real physics, hevy mechs crushing lights at collisions, pushing lighter mechs down from viridians rocks, heavies crushing buildings, lasers melting steel constructions, some new maps, or perhaps new weapons, magnetic guns, boosting machine guns to any use, or perhaps close combat... so much ways to make fun .... not thousand of nodes and unifying mechs to same level

[Black Dreamer]

Problem with balancing mechs in MWO is that they are trying make them all equal. Every chassis is different and some like jaggermech is simple better at poking from cower than quickdraw. We get quirks because of that differents and some from lore. The current skill tree is still doing the same thing. Some folks already claims they will go for seismic, depr nodes, and have max bonus armor + some else. If this skill tree is truly trying to make specialized roles in game it should do it in rough way. We already have "class" for mech, by mechcommander (Firepower, Mobility,..) and it could also work in this game too. The skill tree should have the same numbers of nodes in firepower, mobility, infotech tree. First choosen tree is main tree (specialization) and you have enough sp to complete only that main tree alone. After specialisation you can also spend some sp to other tree, but it cost additional sp. The tree should provide huge bonuses like (complete master tree): 2x current armor (A), Agility (speed tweak 10%,acc,dcc,..., sesmic, depr, more consumables ,...(I), 30% cooldown (W). The last group is tricky one because it could be like: 30%lbx spread or 20% duration + 10% cooldown. Mech Opertions tree should be able to all "classes" and cost 1s - some mechs can drop like Cool run and put sp to other trees, because they have gauss rifle or machine guns.
I think that way game could be more interesting.
Lets see some scenarios: You spot the dire wolf (F) in your firestarter (M) you are trying flank him, because attacing by front is suicial. You know, he have no chance when you are behind him. Secend scenario: In firestarter (F) you see enemy dire wolf back close enough to you and you immediately attack him. Unfortunately dire was in (M) class and he respond quickly to you and he took your leg, next the mech. (F) and (M) class - positioning and awareness are suggest for advances players, but, (A) class in good hands could be match changer.
Spotting will be more crucial that way than it is now.

[Thomasso]

XX BURT XX, on 03 March 2017 - 03:03 AM, said:

How about putting some interestng things in the game...the mech world screams for real physics, hevy mechs crushing lights at collisions, pushing lighter mechs down from viridians rocks, heavies crushing buildings, lasers melting steel constructions, some new maps, or perhaps new weapons, magnetic guns, boosting machine guns to any use, or perhaps close combat... so much ways to make fun .... not thousand of nodes and unifying mechs to same level

Well said. I don't know what is wron with the skill/module/quirk system we have now? Really.
New maps, new play modes, better physics (collisions) would be nice.
Interaction with buildings/objects also would be nice (like destructable objects, not only trees).

T.

[aGentleWarrior]

I like the changes alot!
There are just some small things in layout... and look.

Please make the chosen nodes more distinctive from the choosable, maybe make the choosable ones 50% transparent?


1: sensor systems - a lot of nodes need to be bought to get interesting ones... i for example do not want target info gathering or more sensor range... plz add more connections there

2: mech operations, add here some more shortcuts plz ... so many unwanted gyros and speed retentions

3: agility - i liked the speration from torso to leg... the putting together of those is contradicting the wish of making specialists

4: weapons - i like that tree more then the seperated one before - BUT the current layout makes it harder to build jack of all trades builds and autocannon builds feel like need to spend more skillnodes to get rewarded -
think of a layout with multiple root/entrypoints to solve that!

5: there are no skills for faster lockon for lrm and streak builds...

but overall - feels very promising to play around with that!