37 replies to this topic

[Zergling]

Amsro, on 02 March 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

That is the simplest fix at this point.

Give us less skill points to play with if need be.

I'd be satisfied with that, with less skill points.

[soapyfrog]

I agree the links are dumb. Especially since you can't follow a link upwards for some reason?

Removing them would help. But also just consolidate all the nodes!! And ditch the Miscellaneous tree completely.

We honestly do not need more than 30-40 total nodes, and even that might be overdoing it.

[WolvesX]

I hope that someone @ PGI reads this thread.

[Lyons De Flamand]

I'd be satisfied with us being able to go up to get around a node that you really don't want and adding a few lines....

for instance

instead of:

Target Retention 2 - Target Decay 3 - Seismic Sensor 1

being -able- to:

Target Retention 2 - Senso Range 5 - Radar Deprivation 3 - Seismic Sensor 1

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Can we get this as the main focus of PTS2: to make skill trees linear?

[WolvesX]

Dakota1000, on 02 March 2017 - 12:10 PM, said:

Can we get this as the main focus of PTS2: to make skill trees linear?

And not removing quirks to balance an universal change maybe?

Edited by WolvesX, 02 March 2017 - 12:14 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

WolvesX, on 02 March 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

And not removing quirks to balance an universal buff maybe?

One thing at a time, but sure. Quirks are likely going to be readded anyway.

[Drebin Cormack]

PGI keeps trying and trying to see what is the worst system we'd be comfortable with. 6 possible consumables costing 60k each? Burying decent skills behind crap that I don't want? I was having fun with the game; Mech packs at $20 netted me a month of premium and three mechs. This allowed me to have fun mastering them and made me feel that I got something for my money. Either PGI is unhappy with its current revenue or something else is going on. I see where this is heading. I'm done. You guys better go out and buy some lube now, because it's coming and it's raw.

Edited by Drebin Cormack, 02 March 2017 - 12:36 PM.

[WolvesX]

Drebin Cormack, on 02 March 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

PGI keeps trying and trying to see what is the worst system we'd be comfortable with. 6 possible consumables costing 60k each? Burying decent skills behind crap that I don't want? I was having fun with the game; Mech packs at $20 netted me a month of premium and three mechs. This allowed me to have fun mastering them and made me feel that I got something for my money. Either PGI is unhappy with its current revenue or something else is going on. I see where this is heading. I'm done. You guys better go out and buy some lube now, because it's coming and it's raw.

Well, the player base is getting smaller and smaller... I guess PGI hasn't a clue how to fix this.

[QuePan]

one of the things i consider broken with the system is no freedom to how you choose to path to skills you want without having to spend points on skills that your build wont benefit from . that in the nutshell is whats wrong with the system on pts right now , i still feel the pricing is off , hell i have mechs that i use from time to time but barely have the exp to get what the bare minims to what i was doing with modules on the same mech the mastery points should equal what we unlock now , so if you have a mech masterd then you should be able to master it in the new system .
Also the converstion system for XP to GXP needs to have its MC cost removed to make this system worthwhile to players that have been collecting mech packs so we can take any mech we have and be able to configure it with out a exuberant MC (cash cost) this doesnt need to be a cash sink , we have mechpack and mechbays,decals ,paints that are enough of a mc dump to have to worry about the over priced conversion from XP to GXP
with 5+million cbill per full point spec who is going to have money to buy cbill mechs after spending the money on mechs your going to use . .

also so all the consumables ive collected are now gone?? only the hiirer tier consumables are now avail ?? so all that time spent earning them is lost ??? no compensation?
while there are certain percenters that have a excess of currency and even more modules , i for one only have a couple of modules per weight class that i swapped between mechs of that chassis class . in this new system that is gone and the flexablity is gone of easily switching mechs to fit in groups and still be a boon for the team .unless you have a crap ton of resources to pull from is not viable for someone not in the 100billion cbill club

[Mycroft000]

*updated Linear Idea* What About Retaining Basic, Elite, And Mastery Skills?

[Cato Phoenix]

I wouldn't like slashing the number of skills you get.

I don't like to have to get SRM nodes on my mech without missile hardpoints to fill out the tree.

[Thor Sten]

Even worse "Forced to take useless skills and the end result is not even close to the prior state".

My Non-Playtest Pirates Bane is mastered, has Radar Derp, Hill Climb, Seismic Sensors, Machine Gun Range, SPLaser-Range and SPlaser-Cooldown.

In playtest I maxed out Agility (because a Locust survives on agility) and Mech Operations (to get that heat tweaks and to get close to the mastered state), nearly maxed out Sensors (to get Radar Derp) and even had a few points left to up my weapons(which doesn't come close to the original state at all).

I had to take a lot of stuff I didn't want (but could be nice to have) and a lot of stuff that's downright useless (If I could I would start the game without arms to save weight, but now I also have Skills for them). Of course, the weapons don't even come close to their original configuration, but on paper it all looks pretty close to the original, but in game even the maxed out Agility Tree doesn't feel anything like the original, the end result, feels like riding a drunken slug. Surviving on agility will be impossible. Think my contribution to matches will be pretty nonexistent in the future.

[R Valentine]

Gatewaying general skills behind specific skills is doing it wrong. It's supposed to be the other way around. I understand that there are some combinations that you should have to take penalties going for, but this is not the way.

[WolvesX]

Thor Sten, on 02 March 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

Even worse "Forced to take useless skills and the end result is not even close to the prior state".

My Non-Playtest Pirates Bane is mastered, has Radar Derp, Hill Climb, Seismic Sensors, Machine Gun Range, SPLaser-Range and SPlaser-Cooldown.

In playtest I maxed out Agility (because a Locust survives on agility) and Mech Operations (to get that heat tweaks and to get close to the mastered state), nearly maxed out Sensors (to get Radar Derp) and even had a few points left to up my weapons(which doesn't come close to the original state at all).

So the LOC would need free bonus nodes I guess.

Kiran Yagami, on 02 March 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Gatewaying general skills behind specific skills is doing it wrong. It's supposed to be the other way around. I understand that there are some combinations that you should have to take penalties going for, but this is not the way.

And one possible solution would be no links between the nodes?

[Alistair Winter]

It seems like the feedback on the forum is seriously handicapped because people don't know how to express what they want. If you're asking for total freedom without any links between nodes or any kind of structure... then you're not asking for a skill tree at all. You're basically saying you don't want a skill tree. You just want modules 2.0, with more modules than we used to have. Speed tweak module, weapon velocity module, torso twist module, etc.

As I see it, this is all a continuum between total freedom and zero freedom. Total freedom is basically what we already have with modules. We can pick any module, you don't need to pick Hill Climb module in order to unlock Radar Deprivation. So.... everybody picks Radar Deprivation and nobody ever picks Hill Climb module.

PGI seems to think that freedom is too difficult to balance, so they're giving us these scramble trees. You combine different 'colours' on the scramble tree and everyone ends up with different shades of brown in the end, because there's no way to pick only yellow and blue, or only purple and green.

I think there's a reason why RPGs like WoW and Diablo have stuck with linear skill trees. They're fairly effective. But I also like the Witcher 3 skill tree, which is based on Tiers. In order to unlock a Tier 2 skill, you need X amount of Tier 1 skills. In order to unlock a Tier 3 skill, you need X amount of Tier 2 skills. This prevents people from cherry-picking the best skills from each branch, but it also saves people from having to buy a Skittles bag of assorted skills, like PGI's scramble tree.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Alistair Winter, on 03 March 2017 - 02:47 AM, said:

It seems like the feedback on the forum is seriously handicapped because people don't know how to express what they want. If you're asking for total freedom without any links between nodes or any kind of structure... then you're not asking for a skill tree at all. You're basically saying you don't want a skill tree. You just want modules 2.0, with more modules than we used to have. Speed tweak module, weapon velocity module, torso twist module, etc.

As I see it, this is all a continuum between total freedom and zero freedom. Total freedom is basically what we already have with modules. We can pick any module, you don't need to pick Hill Climb module in order to unlock Radar Deprivation. So.... everybody picks Radar Deprivation and nobody ever picks Hill Climb module.

PGI seems to think that freedom is too difficult to balance, so they're giving us these scramble trees. You combine different 'colours' on the scramble tree and everyone ends up with different shades of brown in the end, because there's no way to pick only yellow and blue, or only purple and green.

I think there's a reason why RPGs like WoW and Diablo have stuck with linear skill trees. They're fairly effective. But I also like the Witcher 3 skill tree, which is based on Tiers. In order to unlock a Tier 2 skill, you need X amount of Tier 1 skills. In order to unlock a Tier 3 skill, you need X amount of Tier 2 skills. This prevents people from cherry-picking the best skills from each branch, but it also saves people from having to buy a Skittles bag of assorted skills, like PGI's scramble tree.

I'm all for Modules 2.0 if I'm honest. I like freedom.

[Alistair Winter]

Dakota1000, on 03 March 2017 - 06:09 AM, said:

I'm all for Modules 2.0 if I'm honest. I like freedom.

Personally, I'm fine with Modules 2.0, Tier-based trees and Linear trees, or any combination of them. They each have their advantages and disadvantages. The most important thing is to create a simple system that PGI can easily balance to reduce the power gap between the best and the worst skills / modules.

I don't think the module system was fundamentally flawed, it was just too expensive, too limited, too restricted, and PGI never really made any attempt to balance it by nerfing good modules and buffing bad modules.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 03 March 2017 - 06:15 AM.