74 replies to this topic

[chucklesMuch]

I wish that you could skip pass quirks/skills that are irrelevant to your mech... neither of the Cicada's (2A & 2B), that I was piloting last night, care at all about velocity... or high explosive or missile spread or Ammo mag.... but there sure are some appealing skills on the other side of these...

[JC Daxion]

I made a post about this on the PTS forums.. that they should be pushed down, and more useful nodes for all mechs moved up.. the top nodes, along with first row on each side, should be things like heat, cooldown, range ext..

One this helps multi-system mechs more, along with mechs that want to use other trees with out huge investments in the wepaons tree.

things like weapon specific, which is what vellocity is, should be pushed down, so it takes more points to stack them.

Putting some bellow missile and ballistics nodes as well if you are going for max stack

[GenghisJr]

CygnusX7, on 02 March 2017 - 06:14 AM, said:

PGI's gonna PGI.

Best comment ever!

[Ghogiel]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 March 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

You also have to realize that most mechs feel like they are walking in molasses as it is, so you can't skimp on agility.

It felt like the NTG had better base line agility in the PTS (i did spend some points in the right side of the mobility tree)

specifically the torso twist speed on it felt noticiably faster.

Also double coolshot 18s and double arty for not much investment seems pretty legit choice to me.

Edited by Ghogiel, 02 March 2017 - 03:49 PM.

[Duke Nedo]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 02 March 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

No, because it means un-basiced bad mechs like DGN-1N are even worse than mastered KDK-3s. The skill tree should NOT be balancing mechs (or weapons for that matter).

Sure, I was against the suggestion circulating before about giving weak mechs more SP to spend for that very reason, but I would be kind of OK with an aggressive scaling factor since you'd rather quickly grab the most important buffs and the over all skilling-up process wouldn't be longer. It's not perfect, but the upside would be that it would be extreme easy to maintain from PGIs perspective. Balancing by a single number, ought to be Pauls wet dream, which probably makes it a bad idea lol.

Edit: the slightly depressing thing with all this is that it seems to boil down to all quirks being necessary to keep just the way they were and the skill tree in the end did not do anything to improve balance (rather the current implementation makes it worse). It just replaces the old skills and modules (as predicted), and buffs some of the best mechs unfortunately, by pre-nerfing the worse mechs.

Edited by Duke Nedo, 03 March 2017 - 12:19 AM.

[meteorol]

Ghogiel, on 02 March 2017 - 03:39 PM, said:

Also double coolshot 18s and double arty for not much investment seems pretty legit choice to me.

That's actually the thing is dislike most about the new tree.

2x coolshot 18 and double arty costs 240k per match under the new system. That's something a long time player who sits on 1 billion cbills/has premium time running can afford.
Average player without premium will make like - 100k when using 4 consumables per match.

It gives further advantages to players who already have a lot while simply being inaccessible to the "average" player.

I'm ok with being able to use 4 consumables, provided that everyone can do so.

Edited by meteorol, 03 March 2017 - 01:02 AM.

[El Bandito]

meteorol, on 03 March 2017 - 01:02 AM, said:

That's actually the thing is dislike most about the new tree.

2x coolshot 18 and double arty costs 240k per match under the new system. That's something a long time player who sits on 1 billion cbills/has premium time running can afford.
Average player without premium will make like - 100k when using 4 consumables per match.

It gives further advantages to players who already have a lot while simply being inaccessible to the "average" player.

I'm ok with being able to use 4 consumables, provided that everyone can do so.

Seems PGI is taking the C-Bill sink to a new level. I don't like it.

[Clownwarlord]

El Bandito, on 02 March 2017 - 02:23 AM, said:

Under the new skill tree system players will only need to spend 8 SP in the firepower skill tree to get 20% velocity on their ballistics/missiles. Isn't that too big of a bonus for too little cost? I'm just imagining the potency of FLD builds (notably poptarts), and dakka builds getting a big boost from this, especially on Clan meta mechs. With set of 8 quirks and TCMK1, Jade Kite can actually get 50% CERPPC velocity, in exchange for bit lower energy hardpoints. That equals to 1950 m/s CERPPCs.

What do you think?

I like it, my Jump Nova Sniper will love it.

[Wil McCullough]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 02 March 2017 - 05:58 AM, said:

PGI works on a system that is intended to curb people trying to game the system

People like Zergling wants PGI to make an easier to game system.

And people wonder why the playerbase will never be happy.

I get what PGI's doing here, they want a spheregrid, they want something that forces you to diversify, they're trying to get you AWAY form the current meta.

But everyone's stuck in their ways, it's why you want a direct point system zerg, because then it's easy to game the system and get EXACTLY what you want.

and that's the point, PGI doesn't want you to have exactly what you want, because once you start doing that, you further break game balance.

So you're saying PGI is removing a current quirk system that doesn't allow players to pick and choose and putting in a system that DOES allow players to pick and choose quirks because they don't want players to pick and choose their quirks?

You must not the sharpest crayon in the box.

[Marius Romanis]

El Bandito, on 02 March 2017 - 02:23 AM, said:

Wrong forum just to stand out and get feedback ? shame on you !

However with pgis forum management well played sir.

[El Bandito]

CadoAzazel, on 03 March 2017 - 04:35 AM, said:

Wrong forum just to stand out and get feedback ? shame on you !

However with pgis forum management well played sir.

More feedback = more perspectives I will gain in regards to the issue. Simple.

[Weeny Machine]

I fooled around on the PTS with the skill tree and did some testing in the training ground.

2 things became apparent:

1. Weak mechs
Which struggled anyway, are in some cases even worth. Just use Grid Iron and you know what I mean. His Gauss is basically worthless because its skill got reduced and the skill tree barely compensates for it - the 3 energy hardpoints are a joke anyway because 2 are at waist level and one is in the head. And this mech was (lorewise) built around carrying a gauss

Same goes more or less for the Huginn


2. Overperforming mechs
As was already state: IS mechs got their quirks reduced and get a skill tree as compensation. At the same time, however, clans get the same amount of skill points. Have you tested what a Pedo Bear, sorry Kodiak, can do with those quirks? Try it!

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Wil McCullough, on 03 March 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

So you're saying PGI is removing a current quirk system that doesn't allow players to pick and choose and putting in a system that DOES allow players to pick and choose quirks because they don't want players to pick and choose their quirks?

You must not the sharpest crayon in the box.

No, I'm saying that pgi wants to give you the ability to diversify.

Look, why else would you be forced towards nodes you normally wouldn't take? Because they KNOW that players will go for the "optimal" so they're working a roadblock in to curb your ability to go 100% full hardcore optimal. you HAVE to take some things that won't go exactly for that awesomesauce minmaxed monster you've made.


So the hope is, that you'll re-evaluate your build, look at the quirks you end up given, and diversify a bit, by doing so, you'll also increase TTK since you'll likely have perks in area's you normally wouldn't take, encouraging you to take weapons that you normally wouldn't.

However, the failing here, is that the playerbase are so god damned far up their own arses, that they refuse to see that and adapt, they refuse to diversify, because all anyone wants to do is point, click, and win, instead of have a giant robot slugfest.

I've been here long enough to see the trends, I know what the "elite" want, and they want instant gratification, so they're going to continually push for the ability to min-max even harder with the current skill tree system. And right now, PGI's in a place where they're avoiding giving you what you want in that regard. And that's good.

I'm tired of hearing all the whining over this, I just want PGI to push this new system out, and be done with it. Then we can worry about the next balancing nightmare that will be expanded tech from 3060+

[Zergling]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 03 March 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

No, I'm saying that pgi wants to give you the ability to diversify.

Look, why else would you be forced towards nodes you normally wouldn't take? Because they KNOW that players will go for the "optimal" so they're working a roadblock in to curb your ability to go 100% full hardcore optimal. you HAVE to take some things that won't go exactly for that awesomesauce minmaxed monster you've made.


So the hope is, that you'll re-evaluate your build, look at the quirks you end up given, and diversify a bit, by doing so, you'll also increase TTK since you'll likely have perks in area's you normally wouldn't take, encouraging you to take weapons that you normally wouldn't.

However, the failing here, is that the playerbase are so god damned far up their own arses, that they refuse to see that and adapt, they refuse to diversify, because all anyone wants to do is point, click, and win, instead of have a giant robot slugfest.

I've been here long enough to see the trends, I know what the "elite" want, and they want instant gratification, so they're going to continually push for the ability to min-max even harder with the current skill tree system. And right now, PGI's in a place where they're avoiding giving you what you want in that regard. And that's good.

I'm tired of hearing all the whining over this, I just want PGI to push this new system out, and be done with it. Then we can worry about the next balancing nightmare that will be expanded tech from 3060+

/smh

You really don't understand other players at all.

[Wil McCullough]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 03 March 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

No, I'm saying that pgi wants to give you the ability to diversify.

Look, why else would you be forced towards nodes you normally wouldn't take? Because they KNOW that players will go for the "optimal" so they're working a roadblock in to curb your ability to go 100% full hardcore optimal. you HAVE to take some things that won't go exactly for that awesomesauce minmaxed monster you've made.


So the hope is, that you'll re-evaluate your build, look at the quirks you end up given, and diversify a bit, by doing so, you'll also increase TTK since you'll likely have perks in area's you normally wouldn't take, encouraging you to take weapons that you normally wouldn't.

However, the failing here, is that the playerbase are so god damned far up their own arses, that they refuse to see that and adapt, they refuse to diversify, because all anyone wants to do is point, click, and win, instead of have a giant robot slugfest.

I've been here long enough to see the trends, I know what the "elite" want, and they want instant gratification, so they're going to continually push for the ability to min-max even harder with the current skill tree system. And right now, PGI's in a place where they're avoiding giving you what you want in that regard. And that's good.

I'm tired of hearing all the whining over this, I just want PGI to push this new system out, and be done with it. Then we can worry about the next balancing nightmare that will be expanded tech from 3060+

And WHY would pgi implement a system to diversify nodes but prevent optimal node selection?

Would having completely optimal node selection affect their profit? Would having optimal node selection remove the fun players have?

Why would any player choose a suboptimal selection of nodes on purpose to gimp their build?

If there are such players, why is it other players have to ALSO gimp their mechs on purpose making it less fun for them to tune their mechs?

It's like saying you're all for racial diversity and equal rights for everyone. BUT not negros. because f them, negros suck. You dont like them and that's it.

Seriously.

You sound like an absolute ****.