12 replies to this topic

[Stone Wall]

Shouldn't a Mech perform the same for everyone? I think the pilot's own skill should be the deciding factor, not a "skill" point that gives a bonus to combat.

Can anyone explain how this is positive for MechWarrior Online?

The past games didn't have skill points, why now?

Thanks in advance.

[MrHail]

The only reason I see is because people feel the need to progress towards something.
If you don't have a progression of some kind people just quit playing after a while.

I hate this type of progression because the new player will always get crushed in their first matches if there isn't a good system in place. Something like diminishing returns the farther you get in the skill tree.

First skill point gives you 6% cooldown, next gives you 4% etc.

I think people will get tired of giving feedback because this skill tree feels like it's so far away from what it should be.

[Nesutizale]

I think the point is the feeling of progress. People will, at some point, ask themself "Why am I playing this game?"

While everyone will most likely come up with a different answer, in the end the feeling of moveing forward or short progress is what drives "free to play" games.

Some may play "Pokemech". Haveing all the mechs there are is their feeling of progression.
Others want all the weapons they need, all the archivements unlocked and so on.

All of these things have in common that there is some form of progress that keeps people playing the game and theirfor open the posibility to buy something.
Would you spend real money on something that you don't play very often or do you spend money on things you play all day?

The skilltree is just another one of these "progress" mechanics. So even setting back people who had all the skills in the previouse system and let them do it again is a progress..in a sarcastic way.

Sure some will drop the game but I did say that even with a lot of complaining now most people will at some point come back and go through the grinding again.

Question is are there better ways to give people the feeling of progress thats more logical and works better then this overcomplicated skilltree.

We allready have Pokemech going, we have archivements, we kinda have faction warfare, buying all the gear you need (including modules and consumables) and skills.
So there isn't much more you can do except going back to the beginning and see if you can change something of what you have.

Pokemech is just releasing new mech every now and then. Maybe making them harder to get by upping the C-Bill /MC prizes.

Archivements...there are allreay a lot, don't know if we could cramp in some more.

Buying gear...well you allways need something so there is very little in the way of progress as it is more of a nececcity then progressing along a path.

Skills...we currently see a rework.

Faction Warfare....the greate chance of progress that just fails and fails again. Here I see most of the potential with building up a unit. The reputaiton of that given unit, takeing over a planet, creating bigger units that help out smaller ones like Wolfs Dragoons with their Outreach program.....and lots of other stuff.

I forgot another progression mechanic....Leaderbords. For some people beeing first is also some form of progress but the game leaks the modes/promotion that realy gives you a good feeling of showing of. Putting you in the spotlight so its realy worth something.
Thats where a Solaris mode (I know that thing is its own topic) or in general more tournaments between units would be come in.
These tournaments would be promoted ingame (give people a short message at the beginning "XY is now leading in teamfights! Congrats to them") and youtube/switchTV.

So do we need a JRPG/RPG Skilltree system or Skilltree at all? Kinda, as long as we don't have something else people can grind into.

I dare to say that if faction warfare / tournaments / Solaris where more of a thing, we wouldn't see the skilltree rework.

[Acehilator]

Stone Wall, on 02 March 2017 - 04:32 AM, said:

Shouldn't a Mech perform the same for everyone? I think the pilot's own skill should be the deciding factor, not a "skill" point that gives a bonus to combat.

Can anyone explain how this is positive for MechWarrior Online?

The past games didn't have skill points, why now?

Thanks in advance.

Stop trying to blend some kind of "in-universe" logic with the game design needs of a real world lobby shooter. Thanks.

[Nesutizale]

StoneWall has a point even in the world of "Looby Shooter"
It is indeed a problem many shooters these day face that if you are not one of the persons that buys them "day one" you are left behind because you simply can't affort all the stuff these people have.
The skill of the player him/herself is watered down by systems that let you either have Skill-unlocks or weapon-unlocks that tip the favor to thoose who just have more time/money instead of skills.

It easly creates frustration for casual players and people who just don't have the time to play...even if they are good players.
Thats for example a reason why I haven't played any of the "Battlefield or Call of Dutys" since the first two games of each series. Its just to frustrating.

In case of MWO as is, the drawbacks have been mild compared to these games but they are still there. So saying "Should a mech allways behave the same when using the same tech" is a valid point.

An alternative could be to give older players the option to buy weapons that are fitting more to their playstyle but also have drawbacks to them. That would even out the playfield and lead to much less frusttration.
Still the old guys with the money or people with enough time on their hands could have something to look forward to in optimising and have a chalange to balance out the drawbacks.

Edited by Nesutizale, 02 March 2017 - 05:36 AM.

[Skribs]

CBills give us a grind, and MechLab gives us customization.

I agree that skills are unnecessary.

[Acehilator]

Skribs, on 02 March 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

CBills give us a grind, and MechLab gives us customization.

I agree that skills are unnecessary.

C-Bills grind and Mechlab are one and the same. That is why a second type of advancement/currency/whatever is neat, and has been part of gaming for forever. Like, D&D pen&paper RPG 1. edition forever.

[Nesutizale]

Well Cbiil grind only works as long as you don't have everything you want. So except there are new weapons/systems or mechs comming constantly you will run into the "nothing to spend it on" stop for CBills...even if it takes you ages

As for MechLab for optimising/customization, I agree that is where the "skills" should be. Be a good engineer and not a good grinder.

[Nesutizale]

Acehilator, on 02 March 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

C-Bills grind and Mechlab are one and the same.

Indeed.

Acehilator, on 02 March 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

That is why a second type of advancement/currency/whatever is neat, and has been part of gaming for forever. Like, D&D pen&paper RPG 1. edition forever.

Also true, but the skill system as its now isn't working for Mechs as well as it would do for a pilot or a character in another game.
A Barbarien in "whatever" uses his strength to do more damage. Its logical, its a progression system done right.

A laser has more range because the pilot is better.....dosn't work that well.
A mech beeing more manouverable because the pilot is good with it...yes that can work pretty well.

So while there is a need for a progression it should stay in a way that it makes sense. Also when you have or should I say could have so many different weapon systems to cover all the skills, then you should put your focus their.
I don't know if you are aware what options there are when the timeline moves forward but let me say that if they concentrate on these possibilities, they can put the weapon part of the skilltree to rest.

Also as mentioned before, there are other ways to give people something worth to do without breaking "ingame logic".
Why are people so focused on breaking MWO down into a generic shooter?
There is so much in lore that can be done to make this game different and still interesting and playable.

[Acehilator]

Nesutizale, on 02 March 2017 - 06:55 AM, said:

Also as mentioned before, there are other ways to give people something worth to do without breaking "ingame logic".
Why are people so focused on breaking MWO down into a generic shooter?
There is so much in lore that can be done to make this game different and still interesting and playable.

MWO already is a generic shooter, it just uses Battletech skins. And PGI is not willing and/or not capable of doing it another way. It is just beating a dead horse at this point (and has been for several years), so just let it go.

[Davegt27]

Quote

Shouldn't a Mech perform the same for everyone? I think the pilot's own skill should be the deciding factor, not a "skill" point that gives a bonus to combat.

Can anyone explain how this is positive for MechWarrior Online?

The past games didn't have skill points, why now?

Thanks in advance.

cant say on how positive it is but

not knowing what's in the minds of the devs
but logically people want to do something with what they bought
its designed to give the player something to grind on or strive for

the grind should be somewhat easy but also somewhat continuous
the problem with MWO is all the try hards have already mastered every aspect of the game
so its reasonable for the devs to change the game to make a new way to grind (work on their Mechs) their Mechs

also the old system did not work very well sure it said you where getting such and such
but now way did I believe it

this gives them a chance to fix the problems add a new way to grind and add new content
all in one

IMHO or in my humble opinion

[Nesutizale]

Acehilator, on 02 March 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

MWO already is a generic shooter, it just uses Battletech skins. And PGI is not willing and/or not capable of doing it another way. It is just beating a dead horse at this point (and has been for several years), so just let it go.

I don't quite agree with MWO beeing a generic shooter, at least not completly. Yes many things here are like every other generic shooter but there is still a bit of differance left. Mechs, depending on their weight act different then your usual foot soldier. You can play more tactical with the different roles, even if its badly done and most people just run straight into the enemy but there are little things that make me play MWO before other shooters.

And yes its kinda like beating a dead horse but I don't think we should let it take the way of beeing completly broken down till it has nothing more then the title in common with Battletech. So yes I will voice my opinion about changeing the way it is done till I stop playing, because I care and I want a change.
Sadly I don't have the money to just buy PGI and order them to change it ^__^

[Stone Wall]

What kept people playing the past games online were competitive leagues and the "1v1 bro, I'm better than you" battles.

PGI is thinning the herd starting with MC only Mechs then moving into the Skill Tree. If this is introduced, they will need to keep the new players safe in their own bucket until they skill out a Mech. Otherwise new players will be too frustrated to continue, unless the point is to make them feel as if they need to pay to catch up.

Edited by Stone Wall, 02 March 2017 - 08:30 AM.