196 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

WolvesX, on 02 March 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

I don't understand that, could you please explain it more simple.

What does "Pepperidge Farm 'Members." mean?

Does " 'member " mean remember?

"Pepperidge Farm Remembers" is an internet meme that originated from Family Guy.


"Do you member?" is a meme that comes from South Park Season 20.



Some weird people like me sometimes combine both memes together for Pepperidge Farm Members.

Edited by FupDup, 02 March 2017 - 12:34 PM.

[WolvesX]

Thank you for explaining the meme!

If some of the no voters could please explain thier reasoning. It would help me to understand the choise, as no one explained the no vote so far.

Thank you!

[R Valentine]

It's really not rocket science. Clan only makes gains with the new skill tree. IS has losses from quirks, and then gains from the skill tree. Only gains > gains - loss. Clan doesn't have to "compensate" anything.

[WolvesX]

Kiran Yagami, on 02 March 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

It's really not rocket science. Clan only makes gains with the new skill tree. IS has losses from quirks, and then gains from the skill tree. Only gains > gains - loss. Clan doesn't have to "compensate" anything.

But why do so many disagree? I don't get it.

[Gagis]

Quirks are a bad solution to an urgent problem and it makes perfect sense to get rid of them when a better way to customize mechs comes around.

[Stone Wall]

WolvesX, on 02 March 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

Wow. That is amazing.

50% think that nerfing chassis after an universal change that affect all chassis the same way is ok.

Sadly not many stated why they picked NO.

All Mechs should function the same for everyone. What should matter in a MechWarrior game is the pilot's own skill. These skill points are even worse than quirks. It's another step on the ladder for a new pilot to take to keep up with veterans and whales.

MechWarrior 3 and 4's competition/leagues kept people playing. No one was looking to max out/grind out XP. Maybe the combat is flawed to the point of boredom and people are looking for something to do other than compete?

So enter the Duke Nuke'em gang to put JRPG/CoD skill points into a MechWarrior series that never used them online before. In past online titles, people used the Mechs they had. Why do we need to grind XP for quirks/skills or even buy Hero Mechs with special load outs? Skill in MechWarrior is being replaced with wallets and grinding. It's sad to see.

Edited by Stone Wall, 02 March 2017 - 03:34 PM.

[Acehilator]

Gagis, on 02 March 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

Quirks are a bad solution to an urgent problem and it makes perfect sense to get rid of them when a better way to customize mechs comes around.

And what is that "better way"? I don't see IS mech getting more skillpoints?

[WolvesX]

Acehilator, on 02 March 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

And what is that "better way"? I don't see IS mech getting more skillpoints?

Excatly! If lets say the Orion would get 40 skillpoints more (free of charge) it might be a bit more balanced. (40 is just a wild guess)

[FupDup]

WolvesX, on 02 March 2017 - 03:57 PM, said:

Excatly! If lets say the Orion would get 40 skillpoints more (free of charge) it might be a bit more balanced. (40 is just a wild guess)

Problem with that is that the bad mechs would be even more bad until they finish their longer grind. Good mechs would have a much shorter grind with immediate effectiveness.

The only ways to make the higher SP thing work is to either make the bad mechs come free with some ready-to-use SP or reducing the XP/C-Bill costs of the bad mech so that the total end cost is the same.

[WolvesX]

FupDup, on 02 March 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

Problem with that is that the bad mechs would be even more bad until they finish their longer grind. Good mechs would have a much shorter grind with immediate effectiveness.

The only ways to make the higher SP thing work is to either make the bad mechs come free with some ready-to-use SP or reducing the XP/C-Bill costs of the bad mech so that the total end cost is the same.

I tried to say with "free of charge" that you get 40 skillpoints for free when you buy the mech. So we thought the same I guess, you worded it much better.

[FupDup]

WolvesX, on 02 March 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

I tried to say with "free of charge" that you get 40 skillpoints for free when you buy the mech. So we thought the same I guess, you worded it much better.

I missed that part. >_<

There have been proposals about this in the past, so my brain went on autopilot when I saw you mention it.

[Maurice Thorez]

I am with you on not understanding the rationale of reducing quirks on mostly middling to clearly underperforming mechs. I understand that quirks are a source of animus for some members of the community and that the skill tree was part of an attempt by PGI to alleviate that concern, but these changes are just demonstrating why the quirks still need to exist at the moment.

I would undoubtedly welcome the eventual implementation of individualised skill trees for a chasis or even individual mech variants, but until then quirks need to be kept at their current levels except for obvious overperformers. That does not seem to be on the immediate horizon yet though.

Honestly, a number of mechs such as the Commando and Dragon could use further quirks to improve their general performance instead of the reductions they are receiving. This will only result in reducing their capabilities compared to weight class rivals such as the Artic Cheetah and TBR.

Edited by Maurice Thorez, 02 March 2017 - 05:27 PM.

[Appuagab]

I don't understand PGI obsession with removing quirks while testing every major update. To distract players and abandon new features halfway due to misunderstanding of how things are working compared to live version? Because that's what happened multiple times before. Quirks should be tweaked and balanced separately after everything else is tested properly.

[WolvesX]

Players explained personaly to me why they voted no:

IN general they are against quirks in the first place and want quirks removed from the game, so they don't like it as a balance method.

At least I have I general idea now.

Stone Wall, on 02 March 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

All Mechs should function the same for everyone. What should matter in a MechWarrior game is the pilot's own skill. These skill points are even worse than quirks. It's another step on the ladder for a new pilot to take to keep up with veterans and whales.

MechWarrior 3 and 4's competition/leagues kept people playing. No one was looking to max out/grind out XP. Maybe the combat is flawed to the point of boredom and people are looking for something to do other than compete?

So enter the Duke Nuke'em gang to put JRPG/CoD skill points into a MechWarrior series that never used them online before. In past online titles, people used the Mechs they had. Why do we need to grind XP for quirks/skills or even buy Hero Mechs with special load outs? Skill in MechWarrior is being replaced with wallets and grinding. It's sad to see.

Gagis, on 02 March 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

Quirks are a bad solution to an urgent problem and it makes perfect sense to get rid of them when a better way to customize mechs comes around.

I understand you guys, but what would be your solution then to balance a Dragon with an Mad Dog (or with an Rifleman) if you don't want quirks?

[WolvesX]

The missing part doesn't seem that big, but that is just the visual effect.

The important part is the effect: You nerfed a underperforming chassis.

[chucklesMuch]

WolvesX, on 03 March 2017 - 12:45 AM, said:

The important part is the effect: You nerfed a underperforming chassis.

Repeatly...

[DAYLEET]

It's fine to remove quirks and replace it with a skill tree. Its fine if the tree and everything that comes with it, skill point numbers, how nodes interact with each others, different buff per weight class, is used to balance per chassis. Then re-add quirks per super underperforming variant when needed.

Whats not fine is that we have no clear idea on how PGI plan to use the tree for balance purposes. Yes we know they want to but how? Are they gona limit the skill point number? Increase difference between weight class per node? Keep reworking the tree?

Right now all mech have been nerfed. I actually laughed out loud when i took my Wolfhound for a spin. Newplayers will never get out of T5 if they take a light or med with that pts system. Even with every mobility nodes taken its worse than live, it turn like a boat, stop like a boat, and was previously volume-scaled like a boat and for all that it cant sustain the same firepower output as before. Im fine with a nerf across the board but lights are not gona survive this time. Remember, I WAS the guy defending the scale increase on lights, that light werent dead. Admittedly i didnt like the mobility hit and thought it needed buff i that area... Well its worse now, with all the "you get more with the tree", its worse, yay.

[WolvesX]

DAYLEET, on 03 March 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

It's fine to remove quirks and replace it with a skill tree. Its fine if the tree and everything that comes with it, skill point numbers, how nodes interact with each others, different buff per weight class, is used to balance per chassis. Then re-add quirks per super underperforming variant when needed.

Yes, but in the current system PGI has, this is not the case.

- Underperforming chassis have the same skill tree.
- They do not have more skill notes, they have teh same as every other chassis.

IF you give underperformers more FREE skillpoints, you could make them more even, but that is sadly not the case.

[Clownwarlord]

Voted other.

This has more to do with PGI saying, "OK you want your mech to do that, then say good bye to this." You now have to pick and choose your nodes to fit you mech and a single play style/role instead of having a good all-rounder. So while some mechs might only have on purpose before are still only going to have that one purpose, but others that may have done 3 things good will only do 1 thing good now.

That coupled with they are not removing all quirks but adding some of them to base line stats while leaving the other to be grabbed in the skill tree with nodes.

[WolvesX]

Clownwarlord, on 03 March 2017 - 02:28 AM, said:

Voted other.

This has more to do with PGI saying, "OK you want your mech to do that, then say good bye to this." You now have to pick and choose your nodes to fit you mech and a single play style/role instead of having a good all-rounder. So while some mechs might only have on purpose before are still only going to have that one purpose, but others that may have done 3 things good will only do 1 thing good now.

That coupled with they are not removing all quirks but adding some of them to base line stats while leaving the other to be grabbed in the skill tree with nodes.

Yes.
PGI thought they would do that.

But as I explained if you take two chassis and compare them now and on the test server fully skilled, the (for example) HBK-IIC is now stronger compared to the HBK-4P.

Look here: http://static.mwomer...re%20Quirks.pdf

As visualized in the pics you can see the effect.

I know, its very confusing, but if you look at the PDF and my visualisations if should be clearer.