34 replies to this topic

[ThePonyBoy]

I tried out the PTS and how it plays on the different weight classes. I was shocked when I stepped into my locust - which is my favourite mech. The turning speed and agility are ridiculously bad. I wouldn´t play any lights if the system goes live under the current conditions. Let us hear your thoughts. And let´s hope they fix it when they read this. I don´t want to lose my favourite class.

Edited by ThePonyBoy, 03 March 2017 - 08:02 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

its abit odd, but trying a LCT that goes 137 vs one what goes 165,
live you can feel the difference, but on the PTS no so much, which is good,
we can assume the numbers will be tweaked so light mechs may go abit abit still,
so im ok with it, and am willing to wait and see what changes with our feed back,

[kapusta11]

Dude, I've stopped playing them after the rescale. New mobility nerfs are just a final nail in the coffin.

[Alistair Winter]

I would stop playing the game all together, just on principle.

[Monkey Lover]

You don't have the option in group Q with more than 4 people most the time.

I might change over to more range and a slower mech 3er laser Raven maybe. Maybe run the adder,kitfox more and just load them up with srm.

[ThePonyBoy]

Andi Nagasia, on 03 March 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

its abit odd, but trying a LCT that goes 137 vs one what goes 165,
live you can feel the difference, but on the PTS no so much

The top speed is the same but decel,accel and agility are crazy bad. I don´t care about the difference between 137 and 165 but the difference between live server and PTS. It just feels some much worse.

[1453 R]

If things go live in the state they're currently in, I'm pretty much done with the game until those things change again.

I'm already mostly in a holding pattern waiting to see if FutureTech fixes anything. This tomscrewery would be beyond even the ability of FutureTech to fix. There comes a time when you just have to vote with your time as well as your wallet and say "you dun goofed too hard. I'm out until you ungoof."

We're getting awfully bloody close to that mark here.

[ArmageddonKnight]

The thing with lights is that very few light mech pilots actualy use a light mech as a light mech.

Most use them as Assault killers, and try to run around brawling in the mix.
Very few actualy use them as they are suposed to be used.

Granted the reward system scales best of damage so it does not incentivise the proper use of light mechs but still.

If the PTS goes live with the changes to light mobility and agility then it will force the proper use of lights, but will require the community to encorage PGI to put better incentives to pilots lights the way they should be.

IMO its medium mechs that people should worry about. Loosing mobility and agility on mediums is goign to make them even more of an easy target, and although mediums are meant oto be the core of any mech army, the most widly used.....in MWO they are not positioned that way, so somthing will have to be done to help mediums out.

The mobility and agility buff to Assault in particular was a great move, combined with the change to lights, they should have a much more menacing presence on the field, rather than a "oh look! a big shiney slow moving target for everyone to alpha down".

[Andi Nagasia]

ThePonyBoy, on 03 March 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

The top speed is the same but decel,accel and agility are crazy bad. I don´t care about the difference between 137 and 165 but the difference between live server and PTS. It just feels some much worse.

o it did for some mechs, but its odd UM WLK KFX and ADRs feel better, but others feel worse,
i think they just need to tweak the numbers abit, i think its more a stats problem then a problem with decoupling,

[Bud Crue]

As to the OP, the only IS lights worth playing after rescale was the Locust, Spider (5K), and occasionally Raven. Other than that lights are dead to me already. The way they are presented in the PTS just finished the rest of them off.

Secondly,

ArmageddonKnight, on 03 March 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

The thing with lights is that very few light mech pilots actualy use a light mech as a light mech.

Most use them as Assault killers, and try to run around brawling in the mix.
Very few actualy use them as they are suposed to be used.

In this here game, where damage is king, where damage gets you the win, where damage is the dominant factor in scoring, winning and advancing; just how do you see as the proper "use" of a light mech?

Scouting? Have you seen the maps we play on? With the exception of Endor, I can tell you where the enemy is starting from and thus can tell you with reasonable accuracy where they will be at any point during 90% of games. Plus if I scout and just poke a bit I will get a perpetual equal sign and never advance.

Harasser? Skirmisher? Well you better have good movement for that if you can be one shot by most heavies and assaults in this game. Let me know how that works for you on the PTS.

What else?

[ThePonyBoy]

Andi Nagasia, on 03 March 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

i think its more a stats problem then a problem with decoupling,

I am not necessarily against changes. And not against the decoupling in general. I would be OK with them changing stats to make up for the loss by decoupling. But please DO CHANGE those stats then! I really hope they do.

[Vidarion]

I freakin' LOVE the changes on the PTS. And, if I understand it correctly, there are fixes coming for some of the more egregious mobility bugs.

My Urbie is agile but slow on the PTS as opposed to sluggish and slow on Live. Love love love.

[ThePonyBoy]

ArmageddonKnight, on 03 March 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

The thing with lights is that very few light mech pilots actualy use a light mech as a light mech.

Most use them as Assault killers, and try to run around brawling in the mix.
Very few actualy use them as they are suposed to be used.

While this may be right, it doesn´t change my opinion at all. Because whatever argument you bring - the changes make lights no fun to play. And that is what counts after all. Why would you have a light weight class if nobody plays them? Even if they are "in their place"?

[Vidarion]

ThePonyBoy, on 03 March 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

While this may be right, it doesn´t change my opinion at all. Because whatever argument you bring - the changes make lights no fun to play. And that is what counts after all. Why would you have a light weight class if nobody plays them? Even if they are "in their place"?

You are making a common mistake in arguing your case here. You are taking a subjective statement ("the changes make lights no fun to play") and trying to make it an absolute, objective statement.

The Urbanmech is the perfect counter-example. A stock Urbanmech on Live is essentially a joke because it moves as though it's going in slow motion. That same mech (stock) on the PTS, has the agility (not speed, but twistiness) to be more than a joke. And, to be honest (and subjective), I love the way my Urbie handles on the PTS with a STD100. The same build on Live is ridiculously slow and sluggish.

So, lights won't be able to rock back and forth out of cover and harass from a single spot. Instead they will dash from cover to cover (going forward the whole time, so no decel problems) and harass that way. Or they will dash through the battlefield and be a nuisance to whole enemy team. Or they'll have to work together to take down larger mechs. So it will involve more teamwork and coordination than it does now and a change in tactics.

[Flying Blind]

ArmageddonKnight, on 03 March 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

The thing with lights is that very few light mech pilots actualy use a light mech as a light mech.

Most use them as Assault killers, and try to run around brawling in the mix.
Very few actualy use them as they are suposed to be used.

Granted the reward system scales best of damage so it does not incentivise the proper use of light mechs but still.

If the PTS goes live with the changes to light mobility and agility then it will force the proper use of lights, but will require the community to encorage PGI to put better incentives to pilots lights the way they should be.

IMO its medium mechs that people should worry about. Loosing mobility and agility on mediums is goign to make them even more of an easy target, and although mediums are meant oto be the core of any mech army, the most widly used.....in MWO they are not positioned that way, so somthing will have to be done to help mediums out.

The mobility and agility buff to Assault in particular was a great move, combined with the change to lights, they should have a much more menacing presence on the field, rather than a "oh look! a big shiney slow moving target for everyone to alpha down".

you are wrong about this.
1: lights have been assault killers since the dawn of tabletop if you knew how to play them. I played table top long before the clans were ever a thing and have killed countless assaults with locusts and cicadas, hermes, spiders, and mongooses.

2: PGI has stated outright that they were proud of accomplishing their goal of making every weight class a viable combat choice.

you are wrong please stop trying to convince people of this.

when it comes to medium mechs, I agree with you.

[Flying Blind]

deceleration and acceleration are key to good agility. it allows for sharp turns and the ability to dog fight and get behind your enemy. this is how lights fight and stay alive. it doesn't work in PTS lights cannot survive a fight and thus are Dead On Arrival if this goes live.

ok not all lights, just the ones that are fast and need agility to survive. PGI also said that mechs that needed agility to survive would get movement and agility bonuses. where are those?

[ArmageddonKnight]

Flying Blind, on 03 March 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

you are wrong about this.
1: lights have been assault killers since the dawn of tabletop if you knew how to play them. I played table top long before the clans were ever a thing and have killed countless assaults with locusts and cicadas, hermes, spiders, and mongooses.

2: PGI has stated outright that they were proud of accomplishing their goal of making every weight class a viable combat choice.

you are wrong please stop trying to convince people of this.

when it comes to medium mechs, I agree with you.

I would respectfuly disagree.

1) This isnt tabletop. This isnt chance bassed, its a FPs mech sim, in older MW games lights have generaly always been the weakest mechs unable to stand ofagainst heavies and assaults.

2) PGI's goals or aim's are not always the best of ideas, whether they are proud or not. There are plenty of game changes and additions they have made which were and are just bad. Ghost heat, the thankfuly unsed 'new' heat system they tested not that long ago, and now the shambles that is the new skill tree to name a few.

Think of it this way, in real world terms.

A Military speed boat (Light mech)
A Arleigh Burke class Destroyer (Assault)
Who wins ?

A M4 Sherman Tank (light mech)
A Tiger Tank (Assault mech)
Who wins ?


Im not saying a light mech should NEVER be able to take out a Assault mech, im saying a light mech should not have the ability to completly negate an Assaults ability to fight back, which any competant light pilot can do by staying behind it.
Instead it should have its own place , its own goals, other than brawling with the big guns.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 03 March 2017 - 09:22 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Maybe snipey poke lights...

[Flying Blind]

whatever happened to this being a team game? should we just go back to the old "bigger is better" standard so there's no reason to pilot anything but an assault? you were talking about how a light mech is supposed to be used but the game designers who made the original game and the designers who made this game have demonstrated through design and in some cases came right out and said something completely contradictory to your premise. this is Mechwarrior, not battleships or modern tactical warfare. mechwarrior is a bit unrealistic in someways, that's how we know it's Mechwarrior.

[C E Dwyer]

If decoupled Engines, went live now, without adjustment I'd stop playing, but I don't think it's going live in this state.

The fact that mech can stop on a dime is as bad on live as this is on the test server, some middle ground is required.

I'm also not voting as decoupling the engines has nothing to do with the skill tree, it's something P.G.I have pushed out as an extra.

The title of this thread is fake news

Edited by Cathy, 03 March 2017 - 09:30 AM.