21 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings MechWarriors. Today I have a simple question. Is PGi repeating the past by making a few glaring and obviously bad ideas in a PTS with a feature that we otherwise would like to see implemented? Energy Draw wasn't a perfect solution, but it had the potential to be a superior alternative to Ghost Heat and even fixed some of the loopholes present.

After seeing what supremely awful ideas PGI had during the 2nd and 3rd PTS we quickly turned from cautious optimism to BURN IT WITH NUCLEAR FIRE FROM ORBIT. The community will almost never agree to any one balance change, but will understand and maybe even respect a well explained or reason argument - even if that argument is contrary to their beliefs.

PGI critically fails at this key element of communication, to explain why they are doing something and what their goals are. Part of it, I think, is limiting themselves to Twitter and that 140 characters or less limit will always hurt your argument but the rest, I think, is simply that Russ is a poor speaker. He may have some genuinely good ideas, or at least, will give his OK on them, but he's terrible at communicating them to both us, the playerbase, and his own dev team responsible for seeing his vision brought to this game.

I want a new skill tree. I want a new skill tree that makes logical sense, has reasonable progression, and honestly, I'd prefer not to spend C-Bills on it but I can at least tolerate the last point, begrudgingly.

[Bellum Dominum]

Yeah I understand that frustration.

I still remember one of my first matches where a dev posted across the game:
Server restart in 2 minutes to fix something I screwed up. (The message was actually more humorous than that but that is the jist of it).

That message actually sold me on sticking around. It was nice to see communication, humility, and humor... something that online games had been missing for a number of years.

[cazidin]

Bellum Dominum, on 03 March 2017 - 10:09 AM, said:

Yeah I understand that frustration.

I still remember one of my first matches where a dev posted across the game:
Server restart in 2 minutes to fix something I screwed up. (The message was actually more humorous than that but that is the jist of it).

That message actually sold me on sticking around. It was nice to see communication, humility, and humor... something that online games had been missing for a number of years.

Unfortunately, and despite efforts to the contrary, PGI is unwilling to invest in a PR representative to communicate directly with the community, and relay their feedback effectively back to them. I've even offered, twice, to do this but was declined. I think that they didn't like how critical I can be of them.

[Bellum Dominum]

cazidin, on 03 March 2017 - 10:19 AM, said:

Unfortunately, and despite efforts to the contrary, PGI is unwilling to invest in a PR representative to communicate directly with the community, and relay their feedback effectively back to them. I've even offered, twice, to do this but was declined. I think that they didn't like how critical I can be of them.

lol and I'm simply too.... abrasive

[MechaBattler]

Would them telling you that they want you to make sacrifices to maximize things, would it change anything for you?

Having someone to complain to isn't going to change what their intent is. They are reading and listening. But clearly they don't want linear progression.

[Splatshot]

Then they don't want our money.

This will be make or break for a bunch of fence sitters.

Edited by Splatshot, 03 March 2017 - 11:02 AM.

[cazidin]

MechaBattler, on 03 March 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

Would them telling you that they want you to make sacrifices to maximize things, would it change anything for you?

Having someone to complain to isn't going to change what their intent is. They are reading and listening. But clearly they don't want linear progression.

Not really, but if they were speaking to me directly, I could very easily change their mind. You may also have missed the part where poor communication can lead to a problem, in-house, with the implementation of mechanics. If you're a programmer, and you were given vague or unclear instructions and cannot receive more, then you'd have to try and interpret them leading to mixed results in most cases.

[MechaBattler]

cazidin, on 03 March 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

Not really, but if they were speaking to me directly, I could very easily change their mind. You may also have missed the part where poor communication can lead to a problem, in-house, with the implementation of mechanics. If you're a programmer, and you were given vague or unclear instructions and cannot receive more, then you'd have to try and interpret them leading to mixed results in most cases.

It's not really realistic to expect a one on one with a dev. Let alone enough to convince them to change their design goals. If you want it to change. Need to get the weight of the community behind you. They do listen when they see enough people repeating the same thing. We probably will see a higher base agility for lights due to all of the combined feedback about that. But expecting them to open a line of communication with individuals is not practical.

[chucklesMuch]

I think they are bitting off too much at a time.

A new ST... okay cool let's give you some feedback
Decoupling engines and mobility... interesting, maybe should have waited till a working/tested/agreed ST bedded in.
Nerfing deceleration... no I don't want to play straff warrior with my fast mechs.
Nerfing under performing mechs by reducing there current quirks... er what?
Giving players the ability to bankrupt themselves with consumables... what the!!??

Edited by chucklesMuch, 03 March 2017 - 11:47 AM.

[cazidin]

Did nobody appreciate the pun in the title?

[Alistair Winter]

I almost liked your post for the title, but then I read that you thought Energy draw was promising, so I couldn't go through with it.

I don't think Russ Bullock is bad at public speaking. I think he just doesn't have the personality type and the stamina to constantly interact with his playerbase in a constructive fashion, without getting defensive or simply exhausted by the criticism headed his way. He seems to be better suited at just making games without interacting with players and then releasing them on his own, like an independent artist. And yet, he has a desire for control that compels him to interact with his fans directly, because he doesn't want to leave that job to a community manager. He likes keeping the finger on the pulse, even though it's exhausting for him. So he's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

[cazidin]

Alistair Winter, on 05 March 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

I almost liked your post for the title, but then I read that you thought Energy draw was promising, so I couldn't go through with it.

I don't think Russ Bullock is bad at public speaking. I think he just doesn't have the personality type and the stamina to constantly interact with his playerbase in a constructive fashion, without getting defensive or simply exhausted by the criticism headed his way. He seems to be better suited at just making games without interacting with players and then releasing them on his own, like an independent artist. And yet, he has a desire for control that compels him to interact with his fans directly, because he doesn't want to leave that job to a community manager. He likes keeping the finger on the pulse, even though it's exhausting for him. So he's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

To be fair. Energy Draw wasn't a perfect solution, we have a working heat scale and I prefer that, but if PGI put in thought and better effort, it could've been an improvement to Ghost Heat, another bad idea. Make no mistake, I don't think Energy Draw was a particularly good idea, just a slight improvement if handled right.

Also. Thank you.

[WolvesX]

The financial situation of PGI is dire I guess.

This is the only explaination how it would make sense.

[Nesutizale]

cazidin, on 03 March 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

PGI critically fails at this key element of communication, to explain why they are doing something and what their goals are. Part of it, I think, is limiting themselves to Twitter and that 140 characters or less limit will always hurt your argument but the rest, I think, is simply that Russ is a poor speaker. He may have some genuinely good ideas, or at least, will give his OK on them, but he's terrible at communicating them to both us, the playerbase, and his own dev team responsible for seeing his vision brought to this game.

I have to agree on the lack of communication and restriction to Twitter. Its also why I tried to tell them, with the other thread I made, that I like it when there is at least some form of "we read your comments" reaction.

Now we need to encurage them to be more open, talk to us, make some videos...anything.

[oldradagast]

MechaBattler, on 03 March 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

Would them telling you that they want you to make sacrifices to maximize things, would it change anything for you?

I don't care if my mechs end up stronger in some areas and weaker in others, but that is not where this is going.

They are generally nerfing things and thing expecting me to RE-GRIND to get my stuff back... and when I'm done, in general my mechs will still be weaker than before

They are nerfing weaker mechs, thus driving the game towards an even narrower, stale meta

They have created a skill maze that is a tangled and illogical web of gated skills and utter trash that does nothing but try to replace CONTENT and CHOICE with GRIND. It also sucks for new players who can't afford to bankrupt themselves leveling mechs, only to realize they got lost in the skill maze and need to start over to get the good skills.

That's the problem, not making mechs a bit weaker overall.

Edited by oldradagast, 05 March 2017 - 08:07 AM.

[Nightmare1]

PGI's problem is that they are always reaching for too much. I'm pretty sure that everyone here thought, "Cool, new Skill Tree!" when the new Skill Tree was initially announced. I doubt that anyone here thought, "Alright! New Skill Tree with nerfs and balancing changes!"

There were just about an endless supply of options that PGI could choose from while creating the new Skill Tree. They could do something like Star Trek Online that uses mostly linear nodes with a small number that branch. These nodes are gated at levels, requiring you to unlock a certain number to progress to the next set. It's similar to what PGI has done now, but vastly simpler and more direct.

PGI could have done something like Vindictus, where you can choose every single skill at will, provided that your personal level is high enough to do so. Once a skill is unlocked, you can continue to level that single skill as you earn AP. That is also a simple, direct skill tree that works.

Instead, PGI decided to take this Charlotte's Web approach where everything is interconnected and junk nodes are sprinkled throughout every tree to serve as a kind of "Node tax." PGI gave us 91 nodes, which sounds really good, but the reality is that we only get about 50 or 60 nodes that are functional with respect to our Mechs. The rest are all invested in junk nodes just for the sake of accessing the locked nodes that we actually need.

Once again, PGI has overreached itself. Instead of confining itself to just revamping the Skill Tree into a direct, meaningful utility that facilitates Mech Roles, PGI has instead decided to try to change game balancing at the same time. Mech quirks and base stats have all been tweaked. Skills have been nerfed severely to the point where many only provide minimal gains. Entirely new skills have been tossed into the mix, further disrupting the game balance. Agility has been nerfed, particularly for the Light and Medium classes (ironically, the most underplayed classes!). It's too much!

Over the years, PGI has time and again repeated the same mistake of trying to do too much with each balance pass or game change. Instead of focusing on just one issue, the devs always try to address several at once, inevitably earning the ire of the community while simultaneously dooming themselves to failure due to their needlessly complicated approach.

[WolvesX]

Nightmare1 wow.

[Cpt Zaepp]

I think PGI should consider hiring a game-designer.

[MechaBattler]

oldradagast, on 05 March 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

I don't care if my mechs end up stronger in some areas and weaker in others, but that is not where this is going.

They are generally nerfing things and thing expecting me to RE-GRIND to get my stuff back... and when I'm done, in general my mechs will still be weaker than before

They are nerfing weaker mechs, thus driving the game towards an even narrower, stale meta

They have created a skill maze that is a tangled and illogical web of gated skills and utter trash that does nothing but try to replace CONTENT and CHOICE with GRIND. It also sucks for new players who can't afford to bankrupt themselves leveling mechs, only to realize they got lost in the skill maze and need to start over to get the good skills.

That's the problem, not making mechs a bit weaker overall.

I was responding to the original post. He wanted an explanation from PGI for what they're doing. I'm not arguing that what they're doing is right. I was just saying knowing their intent won't really change how you feel about it. They could spin it ten ways to Sunday and people would still disagree.

[xe N on]

Cpt Zaepp, on 05 March 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

I think PGI should consider hiring a game-designer.

Only one? I think they need a whole team of people actually knowing what they do.