5 replies to this topic

[AWOL 01]

I came up with this idea to help fix a number of the issues people have been bringing up regarding the skill tree design. It is in no way finalized, and is more of a starting point that could be expanded upon. Suggestions for improvements are welcome.

I figured the easiest way to explain this is to describe the process of unlocking skills.

When you first buy a 'Mech (or are otherwise just starting the skill unlocking process), you pick a role for your 'Mech:



The numbers represent the maximum "tier" that can be unlocked for that specific role, with each role being ranked from 1 to 5. (A Scout needs to be the most mobile, Brawler less so, Support least of all. Explanations will be provided later.)

Scouts do just that - scout. They provide information for the rest of the team and excel at flanking maneuvers and harassing.
Snipers fire from long ranges with ERLL, Gauss, PPC, etc.
Brawlers get in close and kick the snot out of the other 'Mechs.
Supports provide LRM cover (BOO! I know...) and other support (ECM, AMS, possibly arty/airstrike benefits?)
Skirmishers fight at medium ranges and rely on outmaneuvering rather than brawling; they tend to stick with heavier 'Mechs and are 'Jack-of-all-Trades'.

Once you select a role, you go to each separate sub-category: Mobility, Survivability, Weapons, Operations, and Auxiliary. These are shown below:


(These would all connect to form a tree, but it's too wide to show on the screen...)


5 Scouts need to be most mobile, obviously.
4 Skirmishers need to be able to flank and stick with any Assault/Heavies they are escorting.
3 Brawlers need to be able to spread damage when brawling.
2 Snipers have time to react to threats, so don't need as much mobility.
1 Supports just have to stick with the deathball...


5 Brawlers need to be able to take a beating.
4 Skirmishers need to be able to trade without worrying too much about their fragility.
3 Scouts need to be able to escape from behind enemy lines without it being a death sentence if they're caught.
2 Supports need to be able to survive flanking attacks.
1 Snipers shouldn't be receiving too much return fire.


This one's a little different. Each role tends to focus more on one type of weapon quirk than the others. Longer range fighters get range quirks, while roles that require quick take-downs get cooldown quirks.



5 Support 'Mechs don't rely on speed, strength, or weapon power to win - they rely on their team, and need to keep providing cover for them.
4 Snipers need to know which targets have priority.
3 Scouts need to be able to relay information to their team quickly and accurately.
2-1 Skirmishers and Brawlers are more focused on other strengths (armor, weapon quirks, etc.)



5 Again, Support 'Mechs focus on helping the team.
4 Brawlers would benefit from Radar Derp, AMS, and Seismic.
3 Snipers need Advanced Zoom? (*cough* this is just preliminary *cough*)
2 Meh...
1 This could use some work...

Anyway, hopefully you get the idea.

Depending on your role, you will be able to unlock up to a certain tier for each specific skill tree. For example:

A Scout can unlock 5 nodes on each of the Mobility skill tree branches (Accel/Deccel, Speed Tweak, JJ Thrust), while a Support can only unlock the first node on each. This means if each node provides a 3% increase for, say, Speed Tweak, the Scout can unlock up to 15%, while the support can unlock only 3%. This way, no skills are "locked" or blocked by, what some would call, useless skills.

In the weighted total you can see the maximum number of skill tree branches available. Some roles (Scouts, Supports) have more than others (Skirmishers, Brawlers). The max number of Skill Points could be below the minimum to make it fair. Let's say, 70. Then, underperforming 'Mechs could receive more, maybe up to 80, while OP 'Mechs would only get, say, 60. Also, because the number of Skill Points is less than the current number available, each node would provide more benefit when it is unlocked, for the same total when fully unlocked. Finally, the percentage increase for each node could also be affected by the weight class of the 'Mech, as is currently the case in the PTS (Lights get more benefit per node than Assaults).

Thanks for reading through all this, or at least looking at the pictures. Again, suggestions are welcome.

[Sandslice]

A few questions.

1. How is this different from making your choices organically and tailoring your choices to a role?
2. Respecs often occur for a change of role (imagine a Griffin changing from SRM/wub brawler setup to a classic LRM/PPC support.) How would you change your 'Mech's role in this system without doing an absolute respec?

[oldradagast]

I proposed something similar in another thread here - 4 roles: Brawler, Fire Support, Scout, and Skirmisher.

You'd probably end up with something like this:
Brawler = firepower and durability focus
Fire support = firepower and sensors
Scout = Sensors and Speed
Skirmisher = durability and speed

Or something like that. Then, vastly cut down the number of skills per role (say, 20 total) with no tangled web of prerequisites, pick a maximum number you can have active at any time (we'll go with 12), and get rid of any respec costs to switch roles or skills between matches. Finally, display what role your allies have active on the "TAB" screen when you look at your team.

Done. You have valid choices to make, a form of role warfare, no convoluted web of skills full of false choices, and you have more information about your team's strengths and weaknesses. But it will never happen.

Edited by oldradagast, 03 March 2017 - 04:57 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Honestly I think role warfare is going to work in Battletech 5 but not in MWO.

[AWOL 01]

Sandslice, on 03 March 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

A few questions.

1. How is this different from making your choices organically and tailoring your choices to a role?
2. Respecs often occur for a change of role (imagine a Griffin changing from SRM/wub brawler setup to a classic LRM/PPC support.) How would you change your 'Mech's role in this system without doing an absolute respec?

1. At this point it seems like people are more focused on certain builds rather than specific roles. They build a 'Mech with ACs, or lasers, or missiles, choose between armor and/or mobility, and then throw in some SPs in the Infotech or Operations trees. Organic trees like we have now also seem to introduce more problems, like blocking skills with ones you don't want or need. By choosing a role, you still get to choose which areas you focus on without having to invest SPs into areas you don't want.

2. To me, respecs are stupid... If you already have a skill why would you have to relearn it? If you already own a module that increases your 'Mechs speed or some other physical system like reinforced armor, you would still own it even if you take it off. In this system, if you unlock a skill, you will always have it, but there would still be a limit to the number that can be applied at a time. This way you can truly 'Master' a 'Mech by going through all the roles and unlocking every single node - then when you switch roles you could place all 91 or whatever wherever you want without paying for it again and again... and again. For example, I start out with a Scout role and unlock all 5 tiers of Mobility. When I switch to Brawler, only the first 3 tiers are available to apply SPs, but since I unlocked them in the Scout role I wouldn't have to pay XP or C-Bills, I would just invest the SPs I wanted.

I hope that makes sense, thanks for taking a look at this idea.

[Pyed]

This is one of several propsed frameworks I greatly prefer to the web system on PTS.

Brawlers need heat buffs tho.