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Linear Skilltree With Hard Decisions


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Poll: My idea of the skill tree, more details below (39 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you agree with this idea?

  1. Voted Yes (28 votes [71.79%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 71.79%

  2. No (11 votes [28.21%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 28.21%

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#1 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 07:22 PM

I'd like to suggest that PGI create a linear skilltree with hard decisions.

How they can do this would be to allow you to put a large number of points into any given tree.

Lets have an example. You have 75 skill points. Skills trees have between 3 and 30 nodes each.

Survival:
-Armor and structure tree has 40 nodes, the first 20 boost structure, the last 20 boost armor, each node gives 2.5% total boost. In total it would allow for 50% more armor and structure once filled out, so for an Atlas 62 extra points of armor.
-Crit resist tree has 10 nodes offering 5% each, reducing crit chance down to 50% of normal crit rate
-AMS Boost has 3 nodes, giving it a max boost equal to the live server overload module

Movement:
-Acceleration, Deceleration, Anchor Turn, Torso Twist rate, Arm movement speed each have 10 nodes at 5% each, up to 50% and each would be separate trees
-Yaw limit has 5 nodes offering 5 degrees each, up to 25 degrees of twist.
-Pitch limit has 5 nodes offering 2 degrees each, up to 10 degrees of twist.
-Speed tweak has 5 nodes offering 2% weak, totaling the old 10% prenerf value.

Firepower:
-Cooldown and velocity have each 15 nodes offering 2% each, totaling at 30% cooldown or velocity rates
-Heatgen, laser duration, uac jam, missile spread, and LBX spread have 10 nodes offering 2% each, totaling 20% for each.

Sensors:
-ECM has 5 nodes, buying all nodes decreases ECM's targettable range to its current on live
-Radar dep and Seismic both have 10, buying all will get you 100% of live's effects
-Sensor range has 5 nodes offering 10% each, maxing at 50% more sensor range
-Target info gathering has 5 nodes offering 10% each, maxing at 50% max
-Target decay has 10 nodes offering 0.4 seconds each, totaling a 4 second boost to target time

Operations
-Heat Containment has 15 nodes offering 2% each, totaling at 30% heat cap boost
-Cool Run has 20 nodes offering 1% each, totaling at 20% faster cooling
-Quick Ignition, Hill Climb, and Improved Gyros have 5 nodes offering 10% each, totaling 50%
-Ammo Packing has 5 nodes, each one gives the same bonus has the ammo boosting on PTS

Jump Jets
-Lift Speed and Vent Calibration have 5 nodes each, with 5% each, giving a total of 25% faster lift speed or height
-Heat Shielding has 5 nodes, each offering 10% for a total of 50% less jump jet heat
Vectoring has 5 nodes offering 50% each, totaling 250% total forward vectoring (it looks high, but the forward value is extremely low to start with)

Auxiliary
-Each thing in the current version gets split into its own line



This leaves us with 313 different nodes left not counting the Auxiliary ones

So lets say you were building a brawler. You spend 40 points to get maximum durability, leaving 35, you put 15 into cooldown and 10 into heat gen, leaving you with 10 points left. You throw 10 into cool run so you can cool off a bit to continue your brawl.

You want great laser poker? 15 into cooldown, 10 into heat gen, 20 into coolrun, 10 into accel, 10 into decel, 10 into laser duration. You can't take hits well, but your goal is to not take many.

Try setting up skill sets for your own mechs and decide which things you would take. I purposely left out some of the skills in the current tree that are nearly useless, as they aren't really worth paying for. They could be included in MISC as a 1 point skill that gives the full bonus for things like fall damage and target retention if people want.

Do you like these ideas? If so then make sure PGI sees them and keep this thread going and tweet Russ.

EDIT:
Note: where I put multiple skills in one line separated by commas, I do mean each would have its own line unless stated otherwise, the only example of an otherwise would be the armor and structure tree, in which I stated structure first then armor. For example, LBX spread would be a different line than laser duration.

Edited by Dakota1000, 05 March 2017 - 01:27 AM.


#2 l33tworks

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 01:20 AM

Yes linear is great but your numbers are way off and combining weapon skills is beyond stupid and very frustrating because its not being able to skill up your mech the way you want.

I didnt vote because i disagree with the skill merging. It goes against the whole linear thing.

Edited by l33tworks, 05 March 2017 - 01:22 AM.


#3 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 01:24 AM

View Postl33tworks, on 05 March 2017 - 01:20 AM, said:

Yes linear is great but your numbers are way off and combining weapon skills is beyond stupid and very frustrating because its not being able to skill up your mech the way you want.

I didnt vote because i disagree with the skill merging. It goes against the whole linear thing.


Combining weapon skills? I said they'd have separate trees. I only put them all together because they both would have the same number of nodes and percentages each, but they'd all be their own separate lines. I just wasn't going to copy paste the same text over 5 times in a row when I could condense it a bit, didn't think anyone would mistake it.

EDIT:
I put a note down at the bottom to explain it.

Edited by Dakota1000, 05 March 2017 - 01:27 AM.


#4 l33tworks

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 01:49 AM

View PostDakota1000, on 05 March 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:


Combining weapon skills? I said they'd have separate trees. I only put them all together because they both would have the same number of nodes and percentages each, but they'd all be their own separate lines. I just wasn't going to copy paste the same text over 5 times in a row when I could condense it a bit, didn't think anyone would mistake it.

EDIT:
I put a note down at the bottom to explain it.



I see. You have an extra vote then. I assumed you wanted to combine upgrafe paths like PGI has done. For example they merged cooldown with laser duration and velocity. They are all merged. yuck. What kind of choice is that?

P.S compleyely agree with linear oaths idea fir each INDIVIDUAL Skill. You shouldnt be forced to have to go down an upgrarade path you dont want if not for all skills especially for the weapon ones.

Edited by l33tworks, 05 March 2017 - 01:53 AM.


#5 WolvesX

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 01:53 AM

+1 linear is much better, hard choises are bettter.

#6 Alreadythere

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 04:45 AM

Your proposal removes my two main dislikes of the current PTS system:
  • You are forced to take nodes which offer no advantage for you (e.g. why do I need to select missle or gauss nodes on a pure laser boat just to grab all cooldown/heat reduction nodes?).
  • The current layout is horrible, so many nodes mixed together.


#7 Xarchus

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 06:14 AM

Yes, yes, 1000 times yes!

Thank you for taking the time to write this all out Dakota. The non-linear tree is my biggest gripe with the new system and the method you have suggested offers more rewarding and meaningful progress.

#8 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 12:26 PM

Bumping to bring this back up to attention, lets not let this idea be drowned out and forgotten if we want change.

#9 l33tworks

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 08:59 PM

View PostDakota1000, on 05 March 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

Bumping to bring this back up to attention, lets not let this idea be drowned out and forgotten if we want change.


Almost every single post in regards to how to better arrange the skill tree is calling for linear selections, so I dont think you need to worry about this idea not being seen..The problem is I have been seeing people asking for linear trees including my own threads since pts 1 came out and even before. But pgi is just going in the other direction, and consolidating skills more and more. The latest changes that went live a few days ago are way less linear than pts1.

So im not sure if pgi are even reading this forum at all. Maybe its just twitter they read filled with yes men that just want to stroke devs egos. Are the devs are aware to get a full spectrum of opinions they need to listen to people who arent just trying to appease them but are indifferent to the social complexities on saying your views?

Seriously, if you look at russ's twitter its filled with stuff like "loving the new consolidated tree and movement changes.".

Edited by l33tworks, 05 March 2017 - 09:26 PM.


#10 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 09:46 PM

View Postl33tworks, on 05 March 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

Almost every single post in regards to how to better arrange the skill tree is calling for linear selections, so I dont think you need to worry about this idea not being seen..The problem is I have been seeing people asking for linear trees including my own threads since pts 1 came out and even before. But pgi is just going in the other direction, and consolidating skills more and more. The latest changes that went live a few days ago are way less linear than pts1.

So im not sure if pgi are even reading this forum at all. Maybe its just twitter they read filled with yes men that just want to stroke devs egos. Are the devs are aware to get a full spectrum of opinions they need to listen to people who arent just trying to appease them but are indifferent to the social complexities on saying your views?

Seriously, if you look at russ's twitter its filled with stuff like "loving the new consolidated tree and movement changes.".


That's a bit disheartening to have the dev's twitter filled up with yesmen rather than people who look to improve what there is.

#11 l33tworks

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 10:10 PM

View PostDakota1000, on 05 March 2017 - 09:46 PM, said:


That's a bit disheartening to have the dev's twitter filled up with yesmen rather than people who look to improve what there is.


Well Its a bit unfair to look at so simply. As the head of a company you dont want to present an image like things are in a state of disarray so its only natural and good for the image of the game to have positive messages like all public figures. So theres that, but that said, Russ doesnt seem to be very good at taking criticism if history is anything to go by, so it is very possible they are just purposely sticking their head in the sand instead of standing up to raised issues.

Edited by l33tworks, 05 March 2017 - 10:13 PM.


#12 Kuaron

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 11:58 PM

Those numbers…

Haven’t voted for that reason.

#13 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 02:02 AM

View PostKuaron, on 05 March 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:

Those numbers…

Haven’t voted for that reason.


What do you dislike about them? I've seen a few dislikes, but no one stating exactly why they dislike it. I'm interested in counter arguments.

#14 Kuaron

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 02:38 AM

They are vastly exaggerated.
Until PTS 2.1 taking even +10% armour was a no-brainer. How do you expect being able to balance 50%, and how do you imagine freshly bought Mech playing in the same battle?

#15 Xarchus

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 11:01 AM

View PostKuaron, on 06 March 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

They are vastly exaggerated.
Until PTS 2.1 taking even +10% armour was a no-brainer. How do you expect being able to balance 50%, and how do you imagine freshly bought Mech playing in the same battle?


Despite the numbers, I think the most important thing about Dakota's post is the idea behind it. Specialised, meaningful and linear progression without having to take trash nodes, which is what people seem to be asking for, or some variation thereof. Bonuses can be adjusted / tested, much as PGI are doing with the current build.

I for one would swallow another 6 months of testing to make sure they get it right!

#16 Mycroft000

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 11:06 AM

*updated Linear Idea* What About Retaining Basic, Elite, And Mastery Skills?

#17 Ajantise

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 09:56 PM

Best idea so far.
Why would devs force us to take skills that we dont want?
With this skill tree you have a mech that has 50 quirks that dont mean anything.
I dont want to have a chaos skill tree.
Please make it simple, and clean.

#18 Kuaron

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 01:37 AM

View PostXarchus, on 06 March 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:


Despite the numbers, I think the most important thing about Dakota's post is the idea behind it. Specialised, meaningful and linear progression without having to take trash nodes, which is what people seem to be asking for, or some variation thereof. Bonuses can be adjusted / tested, much as PGI are doing with the current build.

I for one would swallow another 6 months of testing to make sure they get it right!

Trash nodes are you have to take as an additional cost to get good nodes may be bad taste but reasonable design.
Badly balanced nodes (like trash nodes you don’t have to take or no-brainer good nodes) are just bad, in any sense.
I would be very more pessimistic if PGI had went on test with a skill tree where the numbers were so much off, than with their “bad taste” skill web we currently see, even if I don’t like it much.





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