61 replies to this topic

[Rogue Jedi]

B3R3ND, on 11 March 2017 - 01:33 PM, said:

If you have analysed the video i linked, you would think differently and not give this counter-advice. "Always lock" would perhaps help a bit in lower level gameplay, but on higher level gameplay it will impact your performance (if your gameplay is about stealth and assasination).

My advice is not to "never lock", but only lock when you commit / move in for the attack or kill. Locking onto the target as soon as you are able will most likely give away your presence and ruin the assasination oppurtunity. The same also applies to firing your weapons, only do this when you are in the best possible position (mostly knife distance).

this is new player help,

it is possible that a t1 player has good reasons to not lock, I am not a tier 1 player, and with the fact that my psr bar has moved by maybe 10%, probably more like 5%, of a tier ^{(and that is both up and down, it has remained about stable)} since it was introduced, I doubt I will ever hit t2 much less t1, I will never experiance those situations.

In lower tier play there is only 1 case I can think of when not locking may not help, however you still benefit from knowing the marks loadout, which you cannot get without targeting. I suppose you could possibly argue that the incoming missiles warning when a missile boat targets your mark could give away the fact that you are there, so yes if you want persional glory rather than the win that could possibly be a very minor factor, which 1 time in 30 could make not locking be less of a negitive, however if a pilot is trying to shake a missile lock that pilot is distracted, and in my experiance a distracted target is an easy target.

But again this is new player help, offering help and advise for new or less experianced players, the very ocaisional situations in top level play where helping the team and yourself by getting target info could lead to you being exposed could be a reason to not target, but not having target info is still a big disadvantage, so I stand by the advice "always have something targeted if possible", of course this thread is all about helping an inexperianced pilot, when you gain experiance you will learn for yourself which rules to throw out occaisionaly, "rules" of gameplay are never absolutes.

Donatello Jones, on 11 March 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

I've been in the habit of locking whatever mech I had my eyes on to see his loadout and damaged areas. I've never noticed how to tell when i've been targeted except when I hear... "WARNING Incoming missiles!"

I have sooo much to learn.

You may still have much to learn, but as far as this 4.5 year veteran knows, the only way of knowing you are targeted is the incoming missiles warning.

[Old-dirty B]

Yes you are right, perhaps my advice - at least part of it, is for more advanced users. For new players - and those in doubt - just lock

Edit;
You dont know that you are locked but you will be alarmed (radar derp.) when that lock drops when you move behind cover and break line of sight. That sound is a dead give away that you have been spotted and targeted, depending on your position on the map you can figure out if you need to pay attention to the back.

Edited by B3R3ND, 11 March 2017 - 05:42 PM.

[Donatello Jones]

I don't have radar dep so I have no basis for knowing that sound but I will listen for it when I do get it... assuming it works the same after March 21st.

My Firestarters have been resized and are larger and easier to hit now with no option for ecm. Should I now play them as a really fast medium mech unless i'm capping in Conquest or after running to gain the circle in Domination?

I've been noticing that I have died more from a side torso loss than being legged. I have been trying to master my FS9-A and i'm considering running a standard engine with the same tonnage at the cost of reduced speed.

Edited by Donatello Jones, 11 March 2017 - 07:25 PM.

[TercieI]

Donatello Jones, on 11 March 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

I don't have radar dep so I have no basis for knowing that sound but I will listen for it when I do get it... assuming it works the same after March 21st.

My Firestarters have been resized and are larger and easier to hit now with no option for ecm. Should I now play them as a really fast medium mech unless i'm capping in Conquest or after running to gain the circle in Domination?

I've been noticing that I have died more from a side torso loss than being legged. I have been trying to master my FS9-A. I have been considering running a standard engine with the same tonnage at the cost of reduced speed.

You really shouldn't play them. They're horrible. I have many many hours in FS9s, ran them in a ton of comp, I won't even touch them. Buy an ACH.

[Robinhood78]

Rogue Jedi, on 11 March 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

You may still have much to learn, but as far as this 4.5 year veteran knows, the only way of knowing you are targeted is the incoming missiles warning.

If you are using radar dep when you get targted there is a chirp sound and a light flashes. The light flash is really hard to notice on most mechs and maps. The chirp is pretty easy to notice though. It happens again when the target lock is broken. The first time you hear it you know you are locked, but after that you have no idea if the consecutive chirps are another lock or one of the other locks being broken. Generally you can figure it out though because of your position.

[Donatello Jones]

TercieI, on 11 March 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

You really shouldn't play them. They're horrible. I have many many hours in FS9s, ran them in a ton of comp, I won't even touch them. Buy an ACH.

I am sadly seeing your point. Sadly because I like the Firestarters. I just have been trying to think of a way to play it effectively. I suck in a Locust... hands down I have to be in the top 5 if there was a worst Locust pilots list out there.

I will consider the ACH.

Edited by Donatello Jones, 11 March 2017 - 08:20 PM.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Jankmon, on 10 March 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

I'm still relatively new to the game but after I got decent with my MAD-IIC I moved on to playing a Cheetah for a change of pace. Many of my kills are from coring out back armor. A *lot* of pilots reduce their back armor to increase their front. So in a quick light mech if you can get behind someone and have steady aim you can kill another mech quick. My Cheetah with 5 SPL has killed many a heavy or medium mech in two alpha strikes that were kept on target in rear CT.

It's also extra fun when you do that to a LRM'er who is just sitting back and not paying attention to what is going on around them. I have cored out a lot of back armor on Archers or Vultures that never even realized what was going on because they weren't paying attention.

If you can, try to target enemies and check their armor status and weapon loadout before engaging them. There are components and modules that help with it. Picking mechs that are easy to finish or unable to brawl is basically what light mech hunting is all about. If I recall properly my best was to score 5 kills while doing only ~80 dmg total.

[mailin]

Yeah, I'm not really buying the "advanced user" argument. I've been playing regularly for almost 5 years now. There is no good reason to not lock, ever. Go ahead and justify it to yourself, but you aren't fooling very many of us.

[TercieI]

Donatello Jones, on 11 March 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

I am sadly seeing your point. Sadly because I like the Firestarters. I just have been trying to think of a way to play it effectively. I suck in a Locust... hands down I have to be in the top 5 if there was a worst Locust pilots list out there.

I will consider the ACH.

I hate to say it. They were good once. I honestly never loved them like I loved Jenners, but I sure put a lot of miles on, but they don't teach anything but frustration now. The rescale was just awful to them, and that was after the ACH had largely obsoleted them. :/

[Tier5 Kerensky]

With my Mist Lynx I often go to saddle(from north side) or technically to the left side little behind it, on a ridge on moutain, to see if any mechs come. There are nice bushes there in which ECM mech can perfectly hide.

Once I saw first 2-3 then 2-3 more come over, so I targetted them all quickly several times to show them on radar. If one would come I could snipe them from behind, but not when so many.

Unfortunately one had that radar derp, he realized I must be there, found me fairly easily and killed my ER-L sniper. He told me the sound went crazy, before that I thought it was an old feature that has been long gone removed.

When I'm coming myself from the other (south ) side, if the saddle looks clear, I often look at that one bushy ridge with heat vision, sometimes you can see someone hiding there. Only then I go forward if I have good loadout or speed for it.

Myself, I have radar derp on assults and such, close range fighters, but I have never heard that sound, at least not noticed. Usually I got LRMs heading my way so it's not easy to notice when the lock breaks.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 12 March 2017 - 03:31 AM.

[Old-dirty B]

Teer Kerensky, on 12 March 2017 - 03:29 AM, said:

With my Mist Lynx I often go to saddle(from north side) or technically to the left side little behind it, on a ridge on moutain, to see if any mechs come. There are nice bushes there in which ECM mech can perfectly hide.

Once I saw first 2-3 then 2-3 more come over, so I targetted them all quickly several times to show them on radar. If one would come I could snipe them from behind, but not when so many.

Unfortunately one had that radar derp, he realized I must be there, found me fairly easily and killed my ER-L sniper. He told me the sound went crazy, before that I thought it was an old feature that has been long gone removed.

When I'm coming myself from the other (south ) side, if the saddle looks clear, I often look at that one bushy ridge with heat vision, sometimes you can see someone hiding there. Only then I go forward if I have good loadout or speed for it.

Myself, I have radar derp on assults and such, close range fighters, but I have never heard that sound, at least not noticed. Usually I got LRMs heading my way so it's not easy to notice when the lock breaks.

Good example why you should be carefull when locking targets, in this case always locking didnt help the team much - some info traded for 1 mech down.

[Robinhood78]

mailin, on 11 March 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm not really buying the "advanced user" argument. I've been playing regularly for almost 5 years now. There is no good reason to not lock, ever. Go ahead and justify it to yourself, but you aren't fooling very many of us.

The one and only reason I can see for not locking is if you do somehow manage to get around the enemy and are making for a backstab you don't want to alert your target on the good chance he has radar dep and knows what that little chirp means. Otherwise, always lock.

[Donatello Jones]

I did buy the ACH-Prime.

Should I run the 6 spl or maybe run 5 spl and another heatsink?

[TercieI]

Donatello Jones, on 12 March 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

I did buy the ACH-Prime.

Should I run the 6 spl or maybe run 5 spl and another heatsink?

If you're new to it and concerned about heat, 5 is OK. Get to 6 when you get it elited (or "skilled enough" I guess, oi). Another option is 6ERSL and ECM, but SPLs are the best build by far.

[Donatello Jones]

Thanks.

I've been out of state away from my 'puter. Time to see what I missed... AWWWWW I MISSED AN URBIE CHALLENGE
@$$#%&€£₩¥!!!!!!

[Insanity09]

I certainly agree with always locking. There are numerous benefits, but the biggest two, for me, are: when I see a location that is vulnerable, I can shoot at it specifically (aim not good enough yet? this is good practice); two, my team knows where at least one enemy mech is and can support me that much better.
Since the radar deprivation warning only occurs when you lose lock on a target (thus switching targets counts), simply locking an enemy won't give you away. Moreover, If you lose lock by getting out of line of sight yourself, then they won't see you even if they do get, and notice, the alert. This means that if you do the rapid target switch/lock to get scout bonuses, and tell your team that there are multiple enemies in an area non-verbally, you are that much more likely to be noticed.

A few other tips...
If multiple enemies are looking your way, you are in a bad spot.
Back shots are best.
Hit and run is your friend. Skirmish, don't bore in.
If you focus hard on one target, it is easy for another enemy to hit you unexpectedly. In a heavier mech that can be ok, in a light you'll likely lose something you enjoyed (an arm, a leg, a torso).
ECM is your friend, if you can mount it, you probably should.
Light damage comes from doing lots of shots over a long time, not from big strikes. To do that you need to survive, so if you're being shot, break contact and re-engage from a new spot.
As somebody said above, don't duel another light 1 on 1. Point them out and move on, or lead them back to your friends if they insist on engaging.
If you are far enough from your team that you can't get back to them if you are engaged, chances are you've gone too far. Range ahead, but not that far ahead.


Also, though I do at times have 500+ damage games in light mechs (I don't own an ACH, btw), 200-400 are far more common for me. Also, I have a depressingly large number where I get hammered early. and have minimal damage/match score, such is the life of a light pilot, one (un)lucky alpha hit and you're out.

[GenghisJr]

This is my JR7 F, there are many others like it but this one is mine.

The secret is to not get into the fight to early, once the battle starts is when you want to get involved, if you are alone then you are the priority target and you will be the pre-match ppc target practice for the opposing team,(this is why LCT pilots die so fast-they think they can 1v1 someone at the start but forget their target has friends). Once the battle starts look for mechs that have become isolated, now their friends do not have the time to help out with LRMS, ERL's or PPC's and may not even have line of sight.
now the next thing you ...well another thing...you need to learn is that a light at 100% speed is not really that agile, a light at 95% max speed is much more agile and maneuverable and can stay behind heavies and assaults without crossing their firing lines.
You are not built for sustained combat, hit/run and assassinations yes, make use of the TIG module so you know which component to target immediately, this reduces your exposure time.
Mainly just wait for the fight to start, a light is not really an issue if there is a MAL, HBR and KDK to keep them busy.
For your team to win, with you in the light, get the opponents to turn around to fight you, if you have their team firing the wrong way at you, the rest of your team will destroy them in a ROFL stomp, even if you dont survive yourself...but your death will be glorious unlike the LCT suicide pilot.

[Sandra McCrow]

...eh... one day I will get to my beloved jenners...
For now it's commandoes and locusts.
All very good points have been made. I will second (third, fourth?) the computer issue - I lag a lot in cqb or on town maps or when near water and miss a good half of my shots that way. In a locust it's particularly bad because locusts shake a lot on the move which only adds to the lag.
One thing nobody has mentioned here I think is a particular feature of the ECM. ECM on a light is a great thing, especially for a new pilot as it helps keeping your head down and not being spotted while making your approach. It is, however, worth noticing that once you are in the ECM-range of an enemy mech your ECM is going to screw their targeting and in turn alert them of your presence. Some ppl switch their ECM to counter mode during the last stages of the approach flipping it back to disrupt as soon as they fire. I don't bother, though won't advise against it. Just something to keep in mind though.

Other than that - practice. Whenever I come back to locusts after piloting my assaults I have to fool around for a good hour before it comes back to me.

Oh one last thing - the discussion here has mostly revolved around you-vs-enemy positioning and the finer points of assassination strategies. I would like to point out that once your teams are engaged in a brawl - your job is to carefully watch - without interrupting your 150+kph cruise of course - the fray and try to help out anybody on your team who's not fighting with an advantage. Sometimes it means disengaging from a good target and switching to a bad one too.

Edited by Sandra McCrow, 04 April 2017 - 07:15 PM.

[Flak Kannon]

Hi DJ.


Great light pilots know when to pounce, when to distract, and when to disengage.

I see so many light pilots that just seem to get tunnel vision on an area or on a target, then pay the price. They die quickly.


It's ok to lightly strafe a Direwolf, making it turn, then run away for good.


But, the key for light pilots is a bit of luck, I call it 'Hive Mind'. A great lance of lights, just KNOW what the other is (are) doing and just KNOW how to support each other or those other (3-4) lights. 3 great light pilots can decimate a few Assault mechs so fast its silly.

But a single Locust, locked on by a few Assault mechs will die in hail or LRM and AC rounds quickly.


I play my lights, especially my Com 3A, at a very high level, but it has come at a price, many many deaths, and Im still learning...


Stick with it and try to read the movements of the other lights and know when they are doing something wrong, and dont join.



Enjoi

[JigglyMoobs]

Robinhood78, on 12 March 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

The one and only reason I can see for not locking is if you do somehow manage to get around the enemy and are making for a backstab you don't want to alert your target on the good chance he has radar dep and knows what that little chirp means. Otherwise, always lock.

I'm the guy who made the video that was shown. Let me give some perspective.

I play NA tier 1 quick play almost exclusively. Ive been around since open beta and have been considered "good" by other people who I consider good for a long time. I don't play comp because my schedule is all over the place and I don't have time to practice, but I do play seriously and try to maintain my skills at a level comparable to a div a level comp player.

For mechanical I tend to like picking a good viable mechanical and mastering it. I'm more a collector of skill than I am of mechs.

Having said all that I have only recently started playing light mechs seriously, specifically the Arctic Cheetah. Once I got past the learning stage I've been able to maintain a >2:1 w/l and k/d ratio, and average right around 400 dmg per game. This means I'm doing a large number of 4 or more kill games with 500 or more damage.

In every game im usually the top scorer in the light Lance and among the top 3 scorers on the team.

This is not to brag, just to establish some perspective.

So, here are my opinion on the locks issue and some general advice.

First locks: 99% of the time locks help more than they hurt. That 1% of the time they hurt. However, when it does and doesn't help is not random. The reason why it's OK 99% of the time is that most people you encounter will not be aware enough to notice. However, if you are going after someone you know is good and healthy, not only would I not lock, I would turn my exam to counter for just a moment as I approach. There are people who are definitely good enough to notice. Once you play for a while you will know who they are by their names.

Second, why did I put up that UAV? The UAV is actually a fantastic tool to use if you need to evade or fight someone in a area full of obstacles. I got away from that much by looking at the tac map and going where he is not
Otherwise he would have killed me.

Here's another instance recently where I used the UAV and tac map to specifically track one enemy I was fighting

https://youtu.be/jgxzRPOhx6g

In this case it gave me enough awareness to take him down from fresh to dead with minimal damage to myself.

Generally: there are 4 traits of a great light pilot:

Awareness, decision making, aim, maneuvering

IN THAT ORDER.

Awareness and smart decision making are paramount. One if the most important things you need to be able to do is make wise decisions about when to engage and disengage. This needs to be a constant process even as you fight. Don't commit to a fight you can't win and don't over commit.

Then, a lot of light pilot neglect to aim well. Aiming is actually more important for a light because you have limited firepower and health, you have to make your shots count. Specifically this means shooting and getting your shots to converge and register on the right components. If you are using lasers, this means that some times you have to stand still or run in a straight line to shoot

This is AGAINST the conventional advice of never stand still in a light. However, in reality every truly good light mechs pilot will take the opportunity to stand still and take a well aimed shot when it presents itself. The way this game engine works, you cannot, in principle, get the **** to register well if you are running all over the place. Not even if you had PERFECT aim.

So, good players shoot lasers with micro-pauses in their movement, sort of like the way people shoot guns in counter strike. You either stand still, momentarily, or run 8n a straight like momentarily, or JJ straight up and down momentarily.

Of course, if the enemy shoots you at the moment you stand still you're dead. So , you have to start learning to time shots. You need to shoot while your opponent's weapons are cycling. You need to move when they are ready to shoot. Also, ALWAYS take advantage of cover. Always fight from cover if you can.

The last one is maneuvering. This is highly mechs dependent. The way you move in an Arctic Cheetah is very different from a Lolcust. Don't expect dodging type maneuvering to save you in anything but a Lolcust. Stealth, cover, and hit and run tactics are what will save you.

When you are fighting, the hardest thing to fight is enemy lights. Learn to fight the big mechs first. Then gradually start fighting the small guys.

People to attack in Arctic Cheetah with 6 SPL:
Medium to large mechs with non pulse laser, lrm, and certain acs, Gauss mechs if you can critical the gauss
People to avoid: srm, erppc, streaks, pulse lasers

Against enemy lights, avoid attacking, but do actively defend your large mechs against them.

Lastly, don't think too much about how you can do huge damage. Focus on how you can help the team win. Especially how you can capitalize in their strengths and plug in their vulnerabilities. You'll find that it's actually easier for you to rack up the points if you are doing things that are tactically smart for your team as a whole.l