117 replies to this topic

[Mole]

CDLord HHGD, on 10 March 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

+ Gauss charge mechanic is what I'm hearing for +5 extra PP damage....

Wonder what the charge speed and projectile speed will be.
Could we be seeing the full return of Gauss/PPC meta?

REALLY hope not.

You mean that's not already the meta...?

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 10 March 2017 - 01:14 PM, said:

The "high accuracy" thing was only supposed to apply within the "short range" bracket. Long to mid range is supposed to only be average accuracy. The problem is that you're making it more accurate at ALL ranges, not just short range.

If anything, this would be simulated in MWO by having a high INITIAL velocity but it rapidly slows down as it goes further. Having a high velocity at all ranges just makes it better at mid to long range fighting than a PPC that doesn't have hefty velocity quirks. Having a high on-paper range doesn't mean much if your unquirked velocity is too slow to make use of it.

In general, velocity is directly linked to range. Higher velocity means longer effective range, if all other variables are kept equal. Lower velocity means shorter effective range. The only weapons that have the same effective range as their paper range are lasers because they're hitscan (basically infinite velocity).

since at mid range it will be doing ****all for dmg, and has no long range... again, I say you are really stretching.

I'd love variable velocity.. .have not seen any indicating PGI is able or willing to do that. So, I will continue to work within the constraints of what we DO have.

Again, even at the MAX optimal range (450) I have listed, it's doing 3 less dmg than the C-LPL--- and is still 150 meters shorter range to do that 10 dmg. At MAXIMUM total range? Um..... 675 vs 840. With a much steeper damage drop off.

So, again, you are way exaggerating things. And as I said... I'm perfectly fine with 400/600. Which is way shorter actual ranges than ANY of it's contemporaries.

And yes, velocity can equal range... except again..oh yeah..I already CHOPPED THE LONG RANGE OFF. Velocity also means practical accuracy, as ANY shooter can tell you. The quicker your shot reaches the target, the easier it is to hit, because it removes a crap ton of variables.

Mole, on 10 March 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

That is my EXACT build. Biggest STD engine it can carry, yes?

300 Light, actually, in mine, max Light Ferro Armor, 19 DHS and TSM.

[Barantor]

I'd be fine with the drop-off in damage to be even more dramatic given it's nature and the fact that we have lots of longer range weapons already.

[Bishop Steiner]

CDLord HHGD, on 10 March 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

+ Gauss charge mechanic is what I'm hearing for +5 extra PP damage....

Wonder what the charge speed and projectile speed will be.
Could we be seeing the full return of Gauss/PPC meta?

REALLY hope not.

honestly, they need to leave C-ERPPC as is. it's given the split damage because it's already gets a 1 ton free lunch over the IS ERPPC. The only one that feels legit for 15 PPFLD is the Heavy PPC.... which has a the same range brackets as the std PPC... kicks out 15 heat... and weighs 10 bloody tons, or 4 tons more than the C-ERPPC, and twice as many crits.

Put the C-ERPPC to 15 PPFLD, the Heavy PPC is almost completely worthless.

[Mole]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

300 Light, actually, in mine, max Light Ferro Armor, 19 DHS and TSM.

Here's mine: AWS-8Q

[Bishop Steiner]

Mole, on 10 March 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

Here's mine: AWS-8Q

ack..sorry was thinking my Marauder build.... yeah, I use a 300 std in my AWS. Only difference is I went std LLs for heat efficiency. Wanted ERLLs, but just got too hot at short to mid range for me.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 March 2017 - 01:26 PM.

[Mole]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

ack..sorry was thinking my Marauder build.... yeah, I use a 300 std in my AWS. Only difference is I went std LLs for heat efficiency. Wanted ERLLs, but just got too hot at short to mid range for me.

I find that my Awesome manages its heat just fine. I put the ERLLs in there as an experiment, figured I'd keep them if it felt okay and swap them for LLs if it didn't. It felt okay so I never went back.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mole, on 10 March 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

I find that my Awesome manages its heat just fine. I put the ERLLs in there as an experiment, figured I'd keep them if it felt okay and swap them for LLs if it didn't. It felt okay so I never went back.

have a feeling I'm probably a little more free with my PPCs than you, then, lol. I still am redlined, a lot.

[CDLord HHGD]

Mole, on 10 March 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

You mean that's not already the meta...?

NOTHING like it used to be.....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

So instead of just obstructing, how about post your own ideal stats for deconstruciton? Again, you will note I flat out stated these were open for debate from the get go. Right now we are arguing over semantics of what is or isn't "short range"...

when the relevant point is it still has MASSIVELY shorter range than the PPC or ERPPC or and somewhat shorter than IS LPLs (which they actually OUTRANGE in TT... . the IS LPL has a max range that matches the Short Range of the SNPPC) and still significantly less range and damage than a C-LPL.

As far as I'm concerned that is what is relevant, not whether you or I have the same definition of a short range engagement.

I love how you get so upset over a harmless conversation about semantics.....semantics are fairly important, regardless.....

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

But 10 ht for a weapon that basically you seem to want to restrain to 300 meters or less effective range? Even being PPFLD, it's total crap compared to the C-LPL for the same tonange... and at that point twice the effective range.

Where did I ever say anything about WHAT I expect from this? ALL I have said is about one suggestion that was outrageous and that an approach must be careful about forcing the Snub Nose to directly compete with the iLPL to avoid one always being better than the other given that particular role (which would be much easier if pulse were DPS "oriented" lasers instead of directly competing with standard lasers).

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

Again, even at the MAX optimal range (450) I have listed, it's doing 3 less dmg than the C-LPL--- and is still 150 meters shorter range to do that 10 dmg.

That 3 extra damage doesn't matter given the duration of the cLPL. Let's not ignore the fact one is PPFLD and the other isn't.

That said, sure the cLPL does have a much higher optimal/max range but you are trying to compare it to Clan tech when both tech bases are not equally balanced. So either you are trying to power creep the SNPPC so the IS have a weapon that can compete directly with Clans without quirks (which creates a very precarious situation, especially given all the PPC family quirks running rampant) or you need to think of only within the context of IS weapons and await the day PGI gets their heads out of the sand and stop using quirks to balance the tech bases and actually buff IS tech overall.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 10 March 2017 - 01:43 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 10 March 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

I love how you get so upset over a harmless conversation about semantics.....semantics are fairly important, regardless.....


Where did I ever say anything about WHAT I expect from this? ALL I have said is about one suggestion that was outrageous and that an approach must be careful about forcing the Snub Nose to directly compete with the iLPL to avoid one always being better than the other given that particular role (which would be much easier if pulse were DPS "oriented" lasers instead of directly competing with standard lasers).

1) I love how you assume you know when I am upset. I use caps for emphasis, because people have a BAD habit of cherry picking. Upset' Even the stupidity present on some of the PTS posts haven't got me to "upset" yet.

2) As for what you expect...that is exactly my point. I'm waiting for you to post up your "counter" as to what you feel would be "balanced" stats. I've put it out on the line here. So far, you have chosen to pick at that, but have not really offered any alternatives. And in fact, even in this post, you seem determined to ignore the meat of the discussion.

*shrugs*

So by all means, educate us.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 10 March 2017 - 01:43 PM, said:

That 3 extra damage doesn't matter given the duration of the cLPL. Let's not ignore the fact one is PPFLD and the other isn't.

That said, sure the cLPL does have a much higher optimal/max range but you are trying to compare it to Clan tech when both tech bases are not equally balanced. So either you are trying to power creep the SNPPC so the IS have a weapon that can compete directly with Clans without quirks (which creates a very precarious situation, especially given all the PPC family quirks running rampant) or you need to think of only within the context of IS weapons and await the day PGI gets their heads out of the sand and stop using quirks to balance the tech bases and actually buff IS tech overall.

I compared it to BOTH tech bases, and both the Clan and IS PPCs and LPLs, as point of fact.

So...again?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2017 - 01:43 PM, said:

2) As for what you expect...that is exactly my point. I'm waiting for you to post up your "counter" as to what you feel would be "balanced" stats. I've put it out on the line here. So far, you have chosen to pick at that, but have not really offered any alternatives. And in fact, even in this post, you seem determined to ignore the meat of the discussion.

So I can't argue anything because I haven't put up an alternative? Really? I'm mostly ok with your original stats with maybe dropping the heat by one point and going from there, just to see how it plays with iLPL and the iPPC (though the fact this has a minimum range really hurts its competitiveness vs the SNPPC).

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

I compared it to BOTH tech bases, and both the Clan and IS PPCs and LPLs, as point of fact.

So...again?

That is still a flawed comparison given the disparity between the tech bases. If it compared better against the cLPL there would be no reason to run anything but the SNPPC for most IS mechs (since mid range is already more to the Spheroid's strength).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 10 March 2017 - 01:49 PM.

[R Valentine]

Oh hypsters, this is PGI we're talking about, so let's be real here. It will work like this:

First, we'll all have to dump our current C-bill stash into reskilling our current mechs. Next, Snub nose PPCs will destroy any semblance of balance we have, force people to buy new mechs and new guns for the meta. Thus you will have to grind yet again to skill up the new mechs and new weapons. Next, they'll release another mech and tech set aaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnd... the whole process will start over again. PGI has made their business model clear. "Grind to play."

[MechaBattler]

Kiran Yagami, on 10 March 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

Oh hypsters, this is PGI we're talking about, so let's be real here. It will work like this:

First, we'll all have to dump our current C-bill stash into reskilling our current mechs. Next, Snub nose PPCs will destroy any semblance of balance we have, force people to buy new mechs and new guns for the meta. Thus you will have to grind yet again to skill up the new mechs and new weapons. Next, they'll release another mech and tech set aaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnd... the whole process will start over again. PGI has made their business model clear. "Grind to play."

Do you just want it for free? Is anyone under the delusion they're entitled to new equipment for free?

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 10 March 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

So I can't argue anything because I haven't put up an alternative? Really? I'm mostly ok with your original stats with maybe dropping the heat by one point and going from there, just to see how it plays with iLPL and the iPPC (though the fact this has a minimum range really hurts its competitiveness vs the SNPPC).


That is still a flawed comparison given the disparity between the tech bases. If it compared better against the cLPL there would be no reason to run anything but the SNPPC for most IS mechs (since mid range is already more to the Spheroid's strength).

Nope. Again, taking things out of context...and ignoring the point. When did you go full Fup on me? (I'm pretty sure conversations between me and him are supposed to be like ramming one's head into a brick wall....for both sides. I'm actualyl fully convinced we both just speak a different language, and as such it's impossible for either to actually "get" the other)

I did say it's easy to pick **** apart... but it's also a lot more useful to supply alternatives. And so far you've seemed to want to argue the minutiae, whilst ignoring the meat. Which, IMO, is a not only a tad disingenuous, but ultimately, counter productive for everyone.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 March 2017 - 02:00 PM.

[R Valentine]

MechaBattler, on 10 March 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Do you just want it for free? Is anyone under the delusion they're entitled to new equipment for free?

I'd find that meme of Data throwing the ball to Lal, with you being Lal and the ball being the point, but I'm too lazy.

[Bishop Steiner]

MechaBattler, on 10 March 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

Do you just want it for free? Is anyone under the delusion they're entitled to new equipment for free?

Meh, is a reason he's on my ignore list. Posts just to sow discontent, nothing more.

Kiran Yagami, on 10 March 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

but I'm too lazy.

well, you're being honest for once.

[MechaBattler]

Kiran Yagami, on 10 March 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

I'd find that meme of Data throwing the ball to Lal, with you being Lal and the ball being the point, but I'm too lazy.

Well there you go. There's the problem right there :3

[kapusta11]

10 damage
270m range
2x max range, so 5 damage at 540m
1200mps velocity
8 heat
4 sec cooldown

Edited by kapusta11, 10 March 2017 - 02:01 PM.