190 replies to this topic

[Arkhangel]

MovinTarget, on 12 March 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

This is inadmissable by many due to logics...

Actually... it's admissable BECAUSE of the logic. i have no idea where the hell you guys are getting "us or them" from that vid, because not once did Bara say that.

apparently logic is an alien concept to you guys. He simply, CALMLY, said "stop freaking out so much and just wait and see how it goes."

[MovinTarget]

Arkhangel, on 13 March 2017 - 10:37 AM, said:

Actually... it's admissable BECAUSE of the logic. i have no idea where the hell you guys are getting "us or them" from that vid, because not once did Bara say that.

apparently logic is an alien concept to you guys. He simply, CALMLY, said "stop freaking out so much and just wait and see how it goes."

Wow, I need to work on my deadpanned sarcasm... so many people mistook my delivery as un-ironic... I totally agree with his stance.

Edited by MovinTarget, 13 March 2017 - 01:04 PM.

[METAL SEPARATOR]

KingCobra, on 11 March 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

The thing is MWO never needed skill trees to start with when you skilled up a mech under the old system you really never got any benefits until it was mastered and then it was only useful for the extra module slot if you could afford to buy it = A module.

I would assume most basic players never leveled up to elite so why do we need a more complicated and costly skill system when most wont even use it?

PGI should have put there resources into gaining new players and advertising the money they waste on dumb crap just amazes me.

Exactly what I've just been thinking. The game requires investments (of time, resources etc) into new real content like maps for example. The skill tree is as it is, it's not perfect but it's part of the game and definitely not a game breaking feature that needs correction ASAP. Why rush into that direction and spend resources on it? I don't understand. They are like chicken running around the yard, hitting random things on its way.

[Aramuside]

K O N D O, on 11 March 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

Some of you guys need to get over the Module Cheapscates comment. It was meant as a joke.

Push for PGI to give you the option to refund Mechs (in full) for a 1 month period after patch and the Module-Cheapskates and Mech-Cheapskates will be on a level playing field.

Jokes are supposed to be funny though unless you're inept.....

[cougurt]

METAL SEPARATOR, on 13 March 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

Exactly what I've just been thinking. The game requires investments (of time, resources etc) into new real content like maps for example. The skill tree is as it is, it's not perfect but it's part of the game and definitely not a game breaking feature that needs correction ASAP. Why rush into that direction and spend resources on it? I don't understand. They are like chicken running around the yard, hitting random things on its way.

i wouldn't say it's a priority, but it's a little ridiculous that the current placeholder skill system has even been a part of the game for this long. it's just too bad the new skill tree doesn't do much to improve on it.

[Arkhangel]

@Cougurt: well, give it time. in all honesty, having it experienced by the community at large will determine more what it becomes than any PTS ever can.

[MrKvola]

Russ now tweeted that they have all teh solutionz (apparently there was a crisis meeting today) and that we should be expecting a post later to cover what is the result. Not sure if I should be happy or afraid.

[MovinTarget]

MrKvola, on 13 March 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

Russ now tweeted that they have all teh solutionz (apparently there was a crisis meeting today) and that we should be expecting a post later to cover what is the result. Not sure if I should be happy or afraid.

Wild speculation intensifies

[Arkhangel]

Which'll continue to only be speculation until it's actually out a week and change from now, so let's all remain calm, and deal with it how we may when the time comes.

[Threat Doc]

METAL SEPARATOR, on 13 March 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

Exactly what I've just been thinking. The game requires investments (of time, resources etc) into new real content like maps for example. The skill tree is as it is, it's not perfect but it's part of the game and definitely not a game breaking feature that needs correction ASAP. Why rush into that direction and spend resources on it? I don't understand. They are like chicken running around the yard, hitting random things on its way.

While I agree with everything you've said, here, and I understand where you are coming from... PGI gave us their word -not a promise, just a very strong idea of what they wanted this game to be, which was good enough for me to invest as a Founder- that they would build a four-piller Warfare system ('Mech, Community, Information, and Role) and the introduction of the new system -which I agree should have been taken care of in 2012-13, is what's taking place, now. I also understand the push-back on this system, as what we've seen thus far -upcoming crisis meeting outcome explanation pending- is pretty crappy. My hope is this crisis meeting held today will do one of two things...

1. Delay the release of this system, perhaps one to two months, pending further design iteration and PTS work, ~OR~
2. They have taken a solution from some of the highly intelligent -if "passionate" (read jerks)- folks on this forum and are going to quickly work through implementing and testing that, instead, requiring two to three weeks to work through the changes.

If PGI can pull this off right, even if it's an 11th Hour Hail Mary to the Bucket at the End of the Rainbow, it is possible for them to get their playerbase back, at least a good portion of it, and for a long time at that. For my part, I'm thinking the new tech tree system is way too big and overblown, and that they should fall somewhere in-between the present 13-node improvement system and the new one. I don't see why they couldn't make a General 'Mech, 'Mech Variant, General Pilot (including Piloting and Gunnery Skill, and Tactics parent nodes with sub-nodes under them, including Information), and Pilot Role overall parents, and then have players go through and purchase nodes based on the expanded node system, but where new nodes do not appear until "parent" selections are made (a la World of Tanks), and then have them be powerful in scope, each, with a moderate expense that allows a player to Master everything they mastered, before, but then to be able to go beyond that through further game-play (some of you call it grind, I call it skilling up).

Guys, I caution patience... I know PGIs history with us, I know they're going to disappoint us, again, but perhaps the level of disappointment will be a little bit less, until they realize they owe their existence to us, as a community, and actually start to listen, particularly to those of us who've been in the tabletop AND computer games in this genre for a BLOODY long time. For those who don't understand what I'm talking about... BattleTech, and MechWarrior with it, were never designed to be Call of Duty in heavy machines; they don't operate like the Human body, they lumber and are cumbersome and inaccurate and they are supposed to be somewhat clumsy. If this were a tank game, they would be more steady and have better ability to track and fire, but the average one of the Inner Sphere machines is well over 200 years old. So, let PGI work it out, let them hear us.

[Marius Evander]

Im too busy laughing at pgi's damage control podcast to try and triage the mechpack pre orders cancellations bleedout turning the whole thing into a haemorrage of cancellations

Now their going to "try to save the head" by putting it in a Futurama Glass Case with voicebox or whichever show does that with a forum announcement post, this is going to be comedy gold.

[Tarl Cabot]

Am sending in request to have 3 pre-sales refunded. The new Skill Tree broke the final straw, strengthen up/allowing both sets of Clan mechs to be more durable than they are now and not doing anything for the isXL death mechanic.

[Threat Doc]

Even You, Tarl?

[MovinTarget]

Tarl Cabot, on 13 March 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

Am sending in request to have 3 pre-sales refunded. The new Skill Tree broke the final straw, strengthen up/allowing both sets of Clan mechs to be more durable than they are now and not doing anything for the isXL death mechanic.

and this is where they'd wished they hadn't watered down the early adopter rewards... no more thinking twice about cancelling...

[Tarl Cabot]

Kay Wolf, on 13 March 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

Even You, Tarl?

hai. I actual had no major issues w/ the new skill tree, only minor ones overall but both techs getting the 'same' treatment with armor and structural while based on a faulty foundation with how the XL engines are on the same level when a side torso is destroyed, death vs heat/movement issues. No amount of armor/structural quirks will change the innie minnie minnie mo, which iXl torso to go for. LFE will only cover up the issue. One of the prepurchase is on my nephew's account that I paid for, he understands and can wait for the c-bill version.

Edit. Dang, that actually hurt. I have felt the lost of faith with PGI... this sucks...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 13 March 2017 - 07:36 PM.

[N0MAD]

Cathy, on 13 March 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

This isn't going to happen none will ever touch this game outside of turn based again. Anyone tempted to do so will just have to come here and read the forums to go woah I'm not walking into that **** storm.

So think about it hard before you walk, this is far from perfect, and in the hands of the clueless, who's staff are on a permanent damage limitation exercise, but it's the only practical realistic option.

I agree with most of what you say, but i will take exception to this point (quote above).
If any company looked at these forums and then looked at the game and PGIs history (past and present). they would most likely think, " geez look at this, all these whales all these loyal IP fans supporting this badly made game by a mediocre Dev, imagine what we could do with it if we make a half decent game".
Theres actually money to be made from this IP, supported by a lot of IP fans/whales, just needs some one (studio) that can actually make a game...

[MovinTarget]

N0MAD, on 13 March 2017 - 06:33 PM, said:

I agree with most of what you say, but i will take exception to this point (quote above).
If any company looked at these forums and then looked at the game and PGIs history (past and present). they would most likely think, " geez look at this, all these whales all these loyal IP fans supporting this badly made game by a mediocre Dev, imagine what we could do with it if we make a half decent game".
Theres actually money to be made from this IP, supported by a lot of IP fans/whales, just needs some one (studio) that can actually make a game...

That would be a trap because all us "IP/Whales" apparently want different things and for all the mistakes made, most of them were because PGI was trying to please everybody which is simply not possible with the number of varying opinions expressed about what's right and wrong.

As I stated before in this thread, anyone trying to hold an RTS to the standard of TT is deluding himself because TT was able to gloss over so many physical mechanics by reducing things to turns and not dealing with split second decisions and the fact that given controls, people will actually aim, not roll dice.

Edited by MovinTarget, 13 March 2017 - 07:01 PM.

[Threat Doc]

N0MAD, on 13 March 2017 - 06:33 PM, said:

I agree with most of what you say, but i will take exception to this point (quote above).

If any company looked at these forums and then looked at the game and PGIs history (past and present). they would most likely think, " geez look at this, all these whales all these loyal IP fans supporting this badly made game by a mediocre Dev, imagine what we could do with it if we make a half decent game".

Theres actually money to be made from this IP, supported by a lot of IP fans/whales, just needs some one (studio) that can actually make a game...

N0MAD, I hadn't thought of it that way, but I think you're right.

On the other hand, whomever "they" would be would have to make the game on their own dime because no one's going to pay for another one up-front like we idiots who bought in as Founders did. If they could pay enough to make a game that does everything this game does not, satisfies the BattleTech and MechWarrior veterans enough, and doesn't piss absolutely everyone off in the process, though, I think you're probably right that they could make a killing, like these knuckleheads at PGI could have, had they listened to those self-same veterans.

However, we're talking about development on the scale of Robert's Space Industries with Star Citizen. If you've not been paying attention to that game in the past year, you might want to take a new look; **** has turned around to the good for them.

[Threat Doc]

MovinTarget, on 13 March 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

That would be a trap because all us "IP/Whales" apparently want different things and for all the mistakes made, most of them were because PGI was trying to please everybody which is simply not possible with the number of varying opinions expressed about what's right and wrong.

As I stated before in this thread, anyone trying to hold an RTS to the standard of TT is deluding himself because TT was able to gloss over so many physical mechanics by reducing things to turns and not dealing with split second decisions and the fact that given controls, people will actually aim, not roll dice.

First off, when BattleTech veterans talk about things being done like tabletop, they're not talking about specific numbers and text for the general game-play, they're talking about the feel, lore, and specifics that lend to the 'feel' of the game. I think everyone understands that the specifics of the mechanics of the game will not translate over, there's a LOT that's missing between the tabletop and the computer game. However, I still believe PGI got the FEEL of the combat game correct, but it's just that so much more is missing, and balance is **** for this game, and everything PGI is introducing so much above and beyond what they need, or what is good for the foreshortened longevity of this game, is where the problems lie.

The simple fact is this... what PGI laid out for us, as the four-pillar system, in December 2011, is the direction they should have gone, and they screwed that up, IGP or no IGP, so badly there's simply no way to recover this game, unless another developer buys it out.

As for the opinions that PGI should have followed, it should have been limited to BattleTech tabletop and MechWarrior computer gamers, without the opinions of anyone else, especially the ignorant-*** happy shiny twitch gamers.

[DJ Sikosis]

Another excellent podcast. I think it addressed the PTS concerns very well. C'mon guys, Russ said cheapskate as a joke, if you didn't watch the whole thing, you missed where he cleared that up what he said (twice) and it was all amicable.