70 replies to this topic

[Dracol]

Like many around here, I have a lot of mechs (150) and only a handful of modules (4 lances worth, plus assortment of weapon modes). I like the new skill tree, however the pain comes in when looking at where my stable will be after it drops.

Now, I understand that post skill tree, a mech with 91 nodes unlocked is equivalent to a mech loaded with modules on the liver server. It would be ideal if I could skill up my 150 mechs to have an equivalent bonus to what they have on live without modules, as well as be able to fully skill up two lances of mechs.

With how the pricing models stands, that is not possible, unless PGI injects more c-bills into my account than what I would be entitled to.

What I propose is this:
- Total cost to skill up 91 nodes remains the same: 4,095,000 cbills (45k * 91)
- The first skill node unlock would cost 978 c-bills
- Each node would increase in price by 978 c-bills

Spoiler

1st Node = 978 cbills
2nd Node = 1,956 cbills
3rd Node = 2,934 cbills
4th Node = 3,912 cbills
5th Node = 4,890 cbills
etc.
10th Node = 9,780 cbills
20th Node = 19,560 cbills
30th Node = 29,340 cbills
40th Node = 39,120 cbills
50th Node = 48,900 cbills
60th Node = 58,680 cbills
70th Node = 68,460 cbills
80th Node = 78,240 cbills
90th Node = 88,020 cbills
91st Node = 88,998 cbills

What this does is drop the total cost of the initial nodes down while retaining the total cbill sink PGI is looking to retain. For a 1,012,230 million c-bill investment into a skill tree, under this system 45 nodes would be unlocked.

For me, it would allow me to get my stable pretty close to what it is now on live with the c-bill refund from my limited number of modules. All 150 mechs would have 45 nodes unlocked, which is fairly equivalent to a mech mastered but with no modules on live. I would also be able to afford to fully skill out a couple lances.

A couple of other benefits to this system:
- Very easy to code

For New Players:
-Lower c-bill cost for the beginning nodes reduces gap between them and vets quicker
-Greater satisfaction in beginning matches with a new mech due to being able to unlock nodes even with bad matches

For Experimenters
- Cost of experimenting with builds at the beginning of a mech's life cycle is drastically reduced

Additional Benifit
- Best nodes can be purchased first at lower cost, more optional nodes can be left by the way side if c-bill retention is desired

Perception
- This would, for some people, make the skill tree feel less of a grind and more of an investment

All the while, the c-bill sink that a game with this type of f2p business model requires is maintained and the max cost currently chosen by PGI remains.

Edited by Dracol, 11 March 2017 - 06:24 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Russ Says you're a cheapskate.

[Dracol]

Kmieciu, on 11 March 2017 - 06:22 AM, said:

Russ Says you're a cheapskate.

My boss says stupid s**t too.

[Wolf McNish]

Sounds like a reasonable idea, I support this.

And you made a reasonable argument, instead of just asserting that the new system would be bad for new players.
Which is rather nice.

@kciemcu.....you cut him off midsentence, that is improper quoting and ripping the quote out of context.
Which makes the quote say nothing at all.
It's also a cut to elicit an emotional response, which is underhanded.

Full context of the quote please.

Edited by Wolf McNish, 11 March 2017 - 07:39 AM.

[K O N D O]

The XP required to Basic skill and Elite skill a mech is:= 37,500 XP

From what I have tested with the new skill tree, to get the same level of skills you have to unlock approximately 50 nodes.
50 x 800 XP = 40,000 XP
50 x 45,000CB = 2,250,000 CB

However you also receive increases to the original basics and elites because you have to take additional nodes to get to the good ones. You also get a number of additional or non-desired skills which equate to 1 module.

So the XP and CB to basic and elite a mech is about the same with the new tree. Maybe slightly better with the new tree.

For all the mech rich / module poor players out there, the actual cost to master and fully module your mech above the old elite skills is actually only an extra 32,800XP and 1,845,000CB.
A bit more XP grind than getting the master module (21,500XP) slot and only the cost of one weapon module, but still far cheaper to master a mech in the new tree.

For all the module rich / mech poor players, you will get a lot of CB back to help master your mechs. Or you can spend all those extra CBills on new mechs and become a mech rich / master (module) poor player.

I am module rich because I spent my hard earned CB on modules instead of mechs.

If you are Mech rich and think you are hard done by, why don't you push for PGI to allow you to sell beck your Mech at full refund so you can get a CB boost.

Some people invested in modules, some people invested in mechs.
Allow 1 month for players to get full refunds when selling a mech and everyone will be in the same situation and no-one will feel hard done by.

If you want to keep all your mechs AND get them all mastered free of charge, then you are being greedy and that is unfair on the module rich players.

[Appogee]

Why should big-spending whales like me have to make allowances for cheapskates like you?

Edited by Appogee, 11 March 2017 - 08:44 AM.

[Dracol]

Appogee, on 11 March 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

Why should big-spending whales like me have to make allowances for cheapskates like you?

Please explain why you feel my proposal is making an allowance? Everybody still needs to pay 4+ mil to fully skill out a mech. Those who purchased a large number of modules still have the advatange over those who did not.

[Appogee]

Dracol, on 11 March 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

Please explain why you feel my proposal is making an allowance? Everybody still needs to pay 4+ mil to fully skill out a mech. Those who purchased a large number of modules still have the advatange over those who did not.

I was only joking.

[Dracol]

Appogee, on 11 March 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

I was only joking.

Ah... my apologies then

[BSK]

With 300 mechs I would prefer to see an easier system to skill all mechs at the same time. There is no way I am going to make 91 * 300 = 27.300 clicks which PGI would strap with a security check®, making it another 27.300 clicks for "YES I WANT TO DO THAT AND YES I WANT TO USE MY MONEY!"

[Sirgrant]

I consider myself an average tier 3 player who plays a couple of hours a week. I have 132 mechs (spent a ton of real world money for me to support the game / franchise). 66 modules. 32 chassis are mastered. I only play approx 15 in rotation. I'll probably only skill up about 15-20.

My question to all those mech rich "whales" out there is this: How many of your 200-300 plus mechs will you honestly skill up and play in rotation?

Not trolling, seriously curious.

Edited by Sirgrant, 11 March 2017 - 11:19 AM.

[Dracol]

Sirgrant, on 11 March 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

I consider myself an average tier 3 player who plays a couple of hours a week. I have 132 mechs (spent a ton of real world money for me to support the game / franchise). 32 are mastered. I only play approx 15 in rotation. I'll probably only skill up about 15-20.

My question to all those mech rich "whales" out there is this: How many of your 200-300 plus mechs will you honestly skill up and play in rotation?

Not trolling, seriously curious.

Well, this skill tree will be the biggest shake up to the game play the game has seen in years. It opens the door to revisit older mechs to see what can be done with them. Play in rotation... don't know. But skill up and give em another chance, a large portion of them.

[Cpt Zaepp]

#ModuleSwappingCheapskates

[Monkey Lover]

Sirgrant, on 11 March 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

I consider myself an average tier 3 player who plays a couple of hours a week. I have 132 mechs (spent a ton of real world money for me to support the game / franchise). 66 modules. 32 chassis are mastered. I only play approx 15 in rotation. I'll probably only skill up about 15-20.

My question to all those mech rich "whales" out there is this: How many of your 200-300 plus mechs will you honestly skill up and play in rotation?

Not trolling, seriously curious.

I have 150ish mechs only maybe 30 have engines and ready to go. I plan on maybe doing 12 at the start and I will do them slowly as I find rolls for the other mechs. I have atleast 150 modules so money isn't going to be to much of an issue.

It's just most these mechs aren't even worth running anymore.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 11 March 2017 - 11:53 AM.

[PanzerMagier]

First of all. Yes you are a cheapskate and so is everyone else who module swaps.

Secondly, this is a good idea. Thumbs up.

[Ryoken]

PanzerMagier, on 11 March 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

First of all. Yes you are a cheapskate and so is everyone else who module swaps.

Secondly, this is a good idea. Thumbs up.

From my observation all those cheapskates also are crybabies very often!

And yes a skill tree system with cheap initial costs that grow by gathering more nodes is a good idea imho. It kinda is beginner friendly and gives long time motivation and the feel of achievement to veterans.

[Fetherator]

PanzerMagier, on 11 March 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

First of all. Yes you are a cheapskate and so is everyone else who module swaps. Secondly, this is a good idea. Thumbs up.

Hey, Panzermagier, good guy!

Please dont put gasoline into the fire
Most of them didnt even take part in PTS so they dont even know what about they are talking.

All will come good,
even if that means I have to put real money into MWO.
Besides i have been a cheapskate by myself owning more modules then mechs.

With best regards,
always welcome your command in battle, see ya!

[Elizander]

They can easily rearrange the tree to make each new mech fun to get to 60 points for new players with reasonable costs.

1-5 points - Free (total 0)
6-10 points - 1,000 c-bills (total 5,000)
11-15 points - 2,500 c-bills (total 15,000)
16-20 points - 5,000 c-bills (total 40,000)
21-25 points - 7,500 c-bills (total 77,500)

...and so on until it reaches around 1.5m c-bills for the first 60 nodes and the price goes up much higher from 61-91 to reach whatever final total is acceptable (in the current case 61-91 would cost aroud 2.5 million while 1-60 would cost 1.5 million)

Now they can just rearrange the tree nodes so that you can get close to a current mastered mech minus modules in the old system in terms of mobility and heat management. At least the mech will feel good to pilot to whatever degree agility-engine decoupling would allow.

One thing they also overlooked is that mech prices are tied to mech weight to some degree (this is fact) so they could also make lights and mediums cheaper to skill up (ECONOMY) than heavy and assault mechs.

Maintain the cost for heavy/assaults and lower the prices for lights and mediums. This would give people more reason to pilot mediums and lights without having to completely buttshaft larger mech agility to make tiny mechs more appealing.

Light mechs could cost 25% the current to skill up and mediums 50%. Heavies and Assaults can take full 100% costs.

Edited by Elizander, 11 March 2017 - 03:32 PM.

[SuperFunkTron]

I like this idea a lot, but I see one point that may become contentious. With a higher costs for the last nodes (let's say 80-91), the cost for doing a respec becomes much higher. Personally, I'm happy either way as I believe cost is fair using a tuning shop model (parts cost c-bills, mechanic paid in XP), but those who complain about being "taxed" for modding their mechs would likely go up in arms about the extra c-bill cost. There are many vocal players on the boards shouting that there should be zero cost to respecs (seems kinda cheap to me, but XP with small amounts of c-bills 1 time per a node seem more than fair to me). Do you have an idea on how that would be handled or would that simply be the "drawback" of the system?

[Skribs]

So...I'm a cheapskate? I've got over 4 dozen Mechs that are special in some way (i.e. hero, champion, loyalty, or special) and after my first few games I think I've been on premium time 100% of the games I've played.

If I'm a cheapskate, how do you explain me spending the hundreds of dollars on this game that I have?

I'm module poor and mech rich, and it ain't because I'm a cheapskate.