70 replies to this topic

[dj_]

What about us module rich and mech poor players?

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Sixpackseven, on 11 March 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

What about us module rich and mech poor players?

After a full refund, you'll be coming out ahead of the game...

[Skribs]

If you have a full set of modules for every Mech right now, you'll skill up all your Mechs and make a profit.

[SuperFunkTron]

Skribs, on 11 March 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

So...I'm a cheapskate? I've got over 4 dozen Mechs that are special in some way (i.e. hero, champion, loyalty, or special) and after my first few games I think I've been on premium time 100% of the games I've played.

If I'm a cheapskate, how do you explain me spending the hundreds of dollars on this game that I have?

I'm module poor and mech rich, and it ain't because I'm a cheapskate.

I'm asking what word you prefer. Being a cheapskate about modules doesn't mean you are cheap about other things, but it may. I'm trying to find out what word is preferred so people stop getting mad.

[Skribs]

I wouldn't mind it so much if it wasn't the justification for why I'll be screwed over in skill costs.

[SuperFunkTron]

Skribs, on 11 March 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

I wouldn't mind it so much if it wasn't the justification for why I'll be screwed over in skill costs.

So it's an appropriate word? And they are already devaluing the c-bill cost enough that those who invested heavily in modules are starting to get a kick. 45 K is really not bad per node.

[Skribs]

It will still only let me master about half of the Mechs I have mastered right now.

Resetting my progress is not what I call a fun time for a game.

[ForceUser]

SuperFunkTron, on 11 March 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

I'm asking what word you prefer. Being a cheapskate about modules doesn't mean you are cheap about other things, but it may. I'm trying to find out what word is preferred so people stop getting mad.

Words hurt and people need a safe space.

They do switch to a better word later in the podcast, efficient I believe it was.

But just like SJWs, the word doesn't matter, they're not actually angry about the word, they're *using* the word as a weapon yes, but they don't actually care, at least I seriously hope that 40-somthing year old men aren't being hurt by a word. That'd be really sad and pathetic. They want stuff and unfortunately for them what they want is unreasonable but they're not able to see that through their entitlement(another word that hurts people apparently).

Edited by ForceUser, 11 March 2017 - 08:54 PM.

[ForceUser]

SuperFunkTron, on 11 March 2017 - 07:30 PM, said:

So it's an appropriate word? And they are already devaluing the c-bill cost enough that those who invested heavily in modules are starting to get a kick. 45 K is really not bad per node.

At 45k then an average good match in a premium mech will give me 10 nodes, sometimes more. On a first win of the day I can get enough XP and Cbills for 10 nodes and then 3-5 nodes worth of xp for every match after that.

End of the day this is an astronomical boon for new players. Like, this cuts the grind for new players by a huge amount. But the vets don't give a crap about new players, it's about what they can get out of it. This is just one of those things when you change a base line fundamental mechanic (actually 2! mechanics) that's been unchanged and effectively placeholder since closed beta 5 years ago.

[soapyfrog]

ForceUser, on 11 March 2017 - 08:28 PM, said:

End of the day this is an astronomical boon for new players. Like, this cuts the grind for new players by a huge amount.

It really doesn't. The moment a new players has more than 5 or 6 mechs it becomes longer and more expensive, much more so if they have variants.

Non-premium players are especially hurt. Though I suppose that could be a design goal.

[ForceUser]

It really, really does. Average GXP per match for a new non premium player, how much is it? like 40? 80?

How long would it take them to unlock radar dep? Adv seismic? How about each weapon module they might use?

It'll take them YEARS

So don't even try to suggest the new system isn't easier on new players.

[soapyfrog]

The flawed GXP cost for unlocking in the old system does not somehow justify an endless and longer grind in the new system.

You've already demonstrated repeatedly you are immune to logic, though. The skill tree itself is not really the problem it is the costs and lower costs would be good for absolutely everyone.

[ForceUser]

Having everything be free would be great for the players riiight up to the point where the servers shut down.

[soapyfrog]

ForceUser, on 11 March 2017 - 09:46 PM, said:

Having everything be free would be great for the players riiight up to the point where the servers shut down.

Straw man. Lower does not mean free. But even to that point there are better ways to do c-bill sinks.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

ForceUser, on 11 March 2017 - 08:28 PM, said:

At 45k then an average good match in a premium mech will give me 10 nodes, sometimes more. On a first win of the day I can get enough XP and Cbills for 10 nodes and then 3-5 nodes worth of xp for every match after that.

End of the day this is an astronomical boon for new players. Like, this cuts the grind for new players by a huge amount. But the vets don't give a crap about new players, it's about what they can get out of it. This is just one of those things when you change a base line fundamental mechanic (actually 2! mechanics) that's been unchanged and effectively placeholder since closed beta 5 years ago.

New players only have a few mechs to worry about grinding, and they have a lot to learn so it's good to spend extra time in the cockpit on those mechs before branching out. Vets with large stables will be put in the same position as a new player if they lack the C-bills to advance their skill trees, effectively erasing what some people have put 4 years of sweat equity into...that can't be a good feeling. It's like setting up the world's largest domino chain, and some idiot knocks them down before you get the guy from Guinness to show up. With newer Battletech/Mechwarrior games on the horizon, some may just decide to skip all that work and move on. If you want to feel like a new player again, may as well play a new game.

[dj_]

I only say what about module rich because we have been feeling the real grind for a long time. I understand that people are upset because of this design flaw. PGI can't give all the players who played the swapping way something and the players that played the modding way nothing. It is a catch 22 for them. I am not upset or do I feel that PGI owes me anything. They provide a service, I enjoy that service and will continue to support them with my beer money.

Edited by Sixpackseven, 12 March 2017 - 08:33 AM.

[Znail]

I think the easiest way to help out the mech rish and module poor is to give the same discount for "rebuying a node" when you get a node you already have on another variant of the same chassi. This would help as I think the main diffrence between those with lots of mechs and those that have a lot less is that the ones with lots have kept more of the variants. This would also make the mech packs still have some meaning in getting.

[Skribs]

Honestly, if the C-Bill cost was removed for each variant that would be a lot better.

[Kmieciu]

Sixpackseven, on 11 March 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

What about us module rich and mech poor players?

You'll get all your C-bills back, so you'll be ready for the new tech (aka new c-bill sink).

[Kmieciu]

soapyfrog, on 11 March 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

The flawed GXP cost for unlocking in the old system does not somehow justify an endless and longer grind in the new system.

Unlocking modules with GXP wasn't that bad. In order to get 15 000 GXP you need to earn 300 000XP. That means mastering 6 mechs before unlocking radar deprivation. Then another 7 mechs mastered and you've got seismic sensor. From there on, it's smooth sailing: once you have them unlocked you pretty much forget about GXP.

What people actually did is converting XP during 2x weekends and bypassing the grind for the price of a couple of $$$. To be honest, it was way to cheap. I spent 1710 MC on GXP conversion back in 2013 and 2014 to unlock all the useful modules. That's under $10 for forever bypassing the grind.

PGI made module unlocks relatively cheap, in order to prevent player backlash. At that time most people wanted to keep MWO "pure": weightless modules and consumables were directly against battletech rules and lore.

Now they're just trying to squeeze more money from the skill/module system. What cracks me up is Russ belittling players for swapping modules. A module, by definition is: "a separable component, frequently one that is interchangeable with others, for assembly into units of differing size, complexity, or function." They were designed to be interchangeable. Alas, "That Was our Position at the Time".

soapyfrog, on 11 March 2017 - 09:16 PM, said:

The skill tree itself is not really the problem .

When the mobility tree forces you to waste 2 nodes on arm pitch, just to get speed tweak and your mech does not have arm weapons, I say it's a problem.

https://nbarnes.gith...l_tree_planner/

Edited by Kmieciu, 13 March 2017 - 12:22 AM.