21 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

Gotta ask the important questions.

[TheLuc]

From what I seen on the PTS2, the assault class may have better torso twist but slower to handle for the leg section, so advancing, stop and turn will be slower.

Without full speed teak it will be back to 48 kph

Edited by TheLuc, 12 March 2017 - 11:23 PM.

[Bohxim]

Prob not. Biggest reason it's so sluggish is cause it's using a small 300 engine on a 100 tonnes mech. With agility decoupled from engine rating, the dwf won't get more sluggish, the rest will be as sluggish as the dwf. If anything, the dwf could get more agile due to possibility of speccing into the mobility tree. Not that I'd advocate doing it tho

[Elizander]

TheLuc, on 12 March 2017 - 11:21 PM, said:

From what I seen on the PTS2, the assault class may have better torso twist but slower to handle for the leg section, so advancing, stop and turn will be slower.

Thanks. That'll be terrible for peek and shoot though which some assaults still manage and mechs with very limited torso twist range are shafted doubly.

Bohxim, on 12 March 2017 - 11:23 PM, said:

Prob not. Biggest reason it's so sluggish is cause it's using a small 300 engine on a 100 tonnes mech. With agility decoupled from engine rating, the dwf won't get more sluggish, the rest will be as sluggish as the dwf. If anything, the dwf could get more agile due to possibility of speccing into the mobility tree. Not that I'd advocate doing it tho

The issue is PGI didn't really state what the baseline is. People just assume it's the Direwolf.

[Clownwarlord]

I ran it in PTS as well as the Atlas and found nothing noticeable without taking any agility nodes or mobility nodes.

[Elizander]

Clownwarlord, on 12 March 2017 - 11:26 PM, said:

I ran it in PTS as well as the Atlas and found nothing noticeable without taking any agility nodes or mobility nodes.

Hmm, was this PTS2 or the first one? I know mechs were as or more agile in the first iteration of PTS because it did not have the engine-agility change yet.

[Clownwarlord]

PTS2

Elizander, on 12 March 2017 - 11:29 PM, said:

Hmm, was this PTS2 or the first one? I know mechs were as or more agile in the first iteration of PTS because it did not have the engine-agility change yet.

Also if you look at it this way. Take a low number like 48.6 kph for the basic Direwolf, Atlas (with std 300), King Crab (std 300). Take 10% of that is only 4.86. So 48.6 + 4.86 = 53.46. Similar to the low numbers of mobility that these assaults will have you will see minimal bonus to the nodes. That is unlike a medium mech or light mech when it picks a node and has the same % as the assault but because it naturally has a better base stat it will receive a better bonus.

So with the engine decoupling the lights and mediums took more of a hit than the heavies and assaults because they had received more from the bonus of a bigger engine. BUT PGI has already come out and increased some of the base stats of the lights and mediums to account for that.

Edited by Clownwarlord, 12 March 2017 - 11:37 PM.

[Bogus]

I don't remember if I tried out a DWF on PTS but the agility I saw on some other assaults was comparable or even a little better than a DWF on live, and that's the baseline to expect. More generally, Dire Wolf is a slow fat pig with few quirks so it's got nothing to fear from the skill tree patch.

[Khobai]

kodiak-3 is what all other clan assaults are measured against. therefore kodiak-3 is baseline for clan assaults.

direwolf is really just an inferior kodiak-3 that needs a buff.

[Clownwarlord]

Khobai, on 13 March 2017 - 12:01 AM, said:

kodiak-3 is what all other clan assaults are measured against. therefore kodiak-3 is baseline for clan assaults.

direwolf is really just an inferior kodiak-3 that needs a buff.

Actually to my knowledge the Kodiak might be one of the few assaults that take a mobility hit.

[J0anna]

Clownwarlord, on 13 March 2017 - 12:29 AM, said:

Actually to my knowledge the Kodiak might be one of the few assaults that take a mobility hit.

It did on PTS2, it was like the dire. It's not the only one though. If you want to brawl in an assault, mobility is an essential tree, or you'll never hit anything to your side.

Edited by J0anna, 13 March 2017 - 12:37 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

J0anna, on 13 March 2017 - 12:37 AM, said:

It did on PTS2, it was like the dire. It's not the only one though. If you want to brawl in an assault, mobility is an essential tree, or you'll never hit anything to your side.

See I tested that theory in a Battlemaster, a middle of the road mobility for an assault mech. I ran it with and without the nodes in the mobility tree. What I found out is that it affected the mech minimally. The reason for that is what I mentioned to earlier. If you have crap baseline stats for that mech and then you add a bonus to it based on percent you still are crap.

Here I will give you an example I gave earlier: take 48.6 kph and add 10% bonus to it. That is 48.6 + 4.86 = 53.46 which is basically crap right?

[Koruthaiolos]

DWF does need a buff you're right

[Elizander]

Raasul, on 13 March 2017 - 03:52 AM, said:

DWF does need a buff you're right

If they nerfed every other assault's agility it technically got buffed.

[Bishop Steiner]

Clownwarlord, on 13 March 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

See I tested that theory in a Battlemaster, a middle of the road mobility for an assault mech. I ran it with and without the nodes in the mobility tree. What I found out is that it affected the mech minimally. The reason for that is what I mentioned to earlier. If you have crap baseline stats for that mech and then you add a bonus to it based on percent you still are crap.

Here I will give you an example I gave earlier: take 48.6 kph and add 10% bonus to it. That is 48.6 + 4.86 = 53.46 which is basically crap right?

That's about what you got with the OLD speed tweak.

Overall, my impression was it was a little quicker to twist and turn, if you used mobility nodes, but didn't feel noticeably worse without, though it's deceleration was probably a tad worse, as most mechs are slower to stop now. The agility baseline degrades the heavier you get, though individual chassis still have quirks that add variables to that, which makes sense, a brawler would likely have better agility base than a stock LRM boat. Though I was disappointed that VTRs still seemed to be bearing the onus of Poptarts Past, in that it still felt underwhelming.

Really wish the PTS was still up just to keep testing and refining builds for Black Tuesday.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 March 2017 - 04:58 AM.

[SmokedJag]

Clownwarlord, on 13 March 2017 - 12:29 AM, said:

Actually to my knowledge the Kodiak might be one of the few assaults that take a mobility hit.

In the quirk/attribute PDF, the DIre is the baseline 100 ton numbers and the Dancing Bear is dropped down towards it with the KDK-3 being put on the exact same numbers.


https://mwomercs.com...now-live-on-pts

Edited by SmokedJag, 13 March 2017 - 05:30 AM.

[R Valentine]

Pretty sure it's the heavies that are going to take the biggest agility hits, and as a heavy player, I'm OK with that. For one thing, most assaults I see are, "Lol, I can run circles around this guy". The rare exception being the MAD IIC, which is stupid agile as it is so I hope that one gets slapped down too. And mediums are just as laughable. It's like shooting at a squishier version of myself. Sure he's a tad faster, but not enough to keep from landing every shot and I can go 1 for 1 in trades and always come out ahead. Right now I'm purposefully playing with a mech that only has tier 1 unlocked to prepare for the change, and even that is very noticeably less nimble. I go back to my mastered Rifleman and it feels like I'm no longer playing with ankle weights on. Just don't invest in any heavy engines any time soon, especially XL's. You might find they're not worth their cost anymore, and those c-bills don't get refunded.

[SmokedJag]

Kiran Yagami, on 13 March 2017 - 05:50 AM, said:

Pretty sure it's the heavies that are going to take the biggest agility hits, and as a heavy player, I'm OK with that.  For one thing, most assaults I see are, "Lol, I can run circles around this guy".  The rare exception being the MAD IIC, which is stupid agile as it is so I hope that one gets slapped down too.  And mediums are just as laughable.  It's like shooting at a squishier version of myself.  Sure he's a tad faster, but not enough to keep from landing every shot and I can go 1 for 1 in trades and always come out ahead.  Right now I'm purposefully playing with a mech that only has tier 1 unlocked to prepare for the change, and even that is very noticeably less nimble.  I go back to my mastered Rifleman and it feels like I'm no longer playing with ankle weights on.  Just don't invest in any heavy engines any time soon, especially XL's.  You might find they're not worth their cost anymore, and those c-bills don't get refunded.

MAD-IIC is also indeed getting its baseline attributes agility slapped, it's slightly lower than the Warhawk/Executioner in the PDF and can no longer jack through the roof with bigger engine size. Really for all the bitching PGI seems to understand which 'Mechs need nerfs and which ones need buffs. They hit the KDK-3 and the MAD-IIC the hardest of the Clan Assaults (major decoupling nerf + no attribute compensation) and the Gargoyle is now more agile than a Timber Wolf.

Edited by SmokedJag, 13 March 2017 - 05:58 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

J0anna, on 13 March 2017 - 12:37 AM, said:

If you want to brawl play in an assault stompy robot, mobility is an essential tree, or you'll never hit anything to your side.

FTFY

[Gas Guzzler]

SmokedJag, on 13 March 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

They hit the KDK-3 and the MAD-IIC the hardest of the Clan Assaults (major decoupling nerf + no attribute compensation) and the Gargoyle is now more agile than a Timber Wolf.

The Gargoyle already was WAY more agile than a Timber Wolf, so... not much change there.