23 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Before we start, lets admire this picture first.



BASIC:

Heat: 10
Damage: 20/10

Minimum Range: N/A
Short Range: N/A
Medium Range: N/A
Long Range Clan = 9 Maps
IS = 8 Maps
Tons :
- Clan = 12
- IS = 15
Critical Slots:
- Clan = 12
- IS = 15
Ammo Per Ton 5

Taking account of that ammo/ton, and damage, it seems that each shot deals 30 damage, and based on "20/10" i think it could be that 10 PPFLD, and 20 splash damage or the other way around. But i think it would deal 20 damage to all enemies within 45m radius of it's impact, and +10 damage when direct. As per the normal Arrow IV round is.

Arrow is literally an LRM with 8-9 maps range. It's practically a long-tom cannon carried by a mech. If implemented if lore is followed, then anyone can be hit, from any open area at any point of pretty much any map.

I can see it now, Potatoes hanging from literally at the other side of the map, nearly touching the bounds, and just being total god ******* damn parasites.

How it can work:

Right now, IS version requires 15 slots, which no IS mech could mount it. PGI could approach Crit-Splitting. But i think it would be just simpler to reduce the slots to 10-slot 14 tons for IS, and 8 slots, 12 tons for Clan. Because of this, damage may be reduced to a cumulative 20 - 24, even a new weapon called "Arrow V".

Currently, PGI has not yet implemented ammo switching while in the battlefield, and the slug/buckshot is handled by having separate weapons instead, C-AC/C-LBX. Disregarding that, assuming that we just have the weapon -- be it separate weapon, or switchable ammo.

Based on the info, that only the Homing Missile is guided, the rest is unguided. If so, how can one precisely hit what one wants hit via indirect fire? Pointing at something will only tag towards what your crosshair is pointing, not behind it.

The solution i could think of is that, firing the AIV requires the Battlegrid, it would be simply point and click while the Battlegrid is up. It can still be dumb-fired, but firing from behind cover without LOS can be handled via Battlegrid. This however poses the possibility of spawn-firing, or simply shooting where you think the enemy would go, but considering that missiles are generally slow, they would see it coming and avoid it, likewise it takes so much time to land that it's unlikely to hit them from very far.

Each missile would be fast, singular LRM in flight, and small Artillery Strikes on impact, dealing 20 splash damage to each mech inside the 45m radius of impact, while direct impact would deal an additional 10 PPFLD. To balance it out, it would have 270m of minimum range.

The fired missile can be locked like a UAV, but can only be shot down by AMS. When locked, it's landing site and blast-radius would be revealed.

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Homing

Quote

The Homing Missile is treated as a standard artillery attack, except it ignores to-hit rolls and only attacks units successfully hit by a TAG. The player then rolls a pair of dice and, on a successful roll, deals full damage to the target unit and area-effect damage to all other units within the hex. An unsuccessful roll deals only area-effect damage to all units within the hex.

It's basically a Streak LRM; requiring constant lock to home, lock to fire, and it's even more complicated as it requires TAG to retain lock. That means it's abso-*******-lutely useless if your team don't have a TAG, or you forgot one, or your TAG is destroyed.

Otherwise, it still hits like a train, if it hits. Else still does the same ground splash damage, like a mini long-tom or a mini artillery-strike. Although being guided unlike the rest, you don't need to point to the battle-grid to fire. You can just acquire locks to fire, and keep moving.

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Cluster

Quote

Infantry in a hex hit by Cluster ammunition are considered in open terrain regardless of any fieldworks, while 'Mechs are other vehicles resolve such hits a Shot from Above. Units hiding within a building are protected, although the building itself may take damage as per normal rules.[1]

Assuming that i does what i think it does, it's basically a missile that explodes in mid-air, and as it does, it shoots out pellets like an LB30X fired from above. Seems simple enough right?

The advantages i could see, aside from larger damage, is that the bomblets can't be shot down by AMS, the Arrow can be fired from much farther, and the bomblets can be a lot farther. Also being LBX-ish, it may have increased critical chance. Ammunition change can also be the perk, but then considering that ammo-change is not implemented, we can only assume the same C-AC/C-LBX implementation.

Of course considering that LBXs are best used close-range, this long-range weapon may be moot and useless. And considering that this is not homing, damage would be ******* spread all over.

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Smoke and Illumination

Quote

The Smoke Arrow Missile was an alternative Arrow IV Artillery missile. Instead of exploding upon impact, these missiles create billowing clouds of obscuring smoke at the target location. The potential to create literal a "fog of war" on the battlefield can be used to hide troop movements and other actions from the enemy.

Game Rules

Smoke Arrow Missiles follow all normal rules of unguided artillery. Each shot fills one hex and the adjacent hexs with Heavy Smoke that rises 2 levels high and lasts until the end of the third round after fired

Quote

Illumination Arrow Missiles are a variation of Arrow IV missiles first developed by the Terran Hegemony in 2621 and recovered by the Capellan Confederation in 3047. Illumination missiles replace their normal payload with high-intensity flares, released over an area with miniature parachutes to slow their descent. Their primary use is for illumination and marking enemy units during nighttime and other low-light operations.

Game Rules

Utilize same rules as standard artillery munitions, however instead of dealing damage they negate any modifiers due to night or dawn/dusk conditions within the target area.

The game doesn't have Fog of War, only Line of Sight to hide. But how i could see it work is that, Smoke would work like an ECM -- but locks would work, it simply cannot lock anything inside and behind the smoke, if something is behind a smoke but not in it, allied lock is still possible. This completely negates any UAV effect.

Illumination can act like a Low-Duration and Small-AOE UAV, that can be deployed from afar. It could be probably just for revealing enemy location briefly, but not for reliable LRM locks. But that depends.

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Inferno and Thunder/FASCAM

Quote

Inferno-IV Missiles are a variation of Arrow IV missiles first introduced by the Capellan Confederation in 3055. The technology was based on recovered Clan FASCAM missiles and was designed to deploy the newly-invented Inferno Mines. Unfortunately, the mines proved to be unstable and would instead ignite upon impact, causing widespread fires.

Game Rules

Units hit by Inferno-IV missiles suffer the same effect as being hit by a number of normal Inferno missiles, while the area affected continues to burn for the remainder of the scenario. Units moving through an area hit by Inferno-IV missiles suffer normal fire damage

Quote

The Thunder Arrow Missile, also known as the FASCAM Arrow Missile, is an Arrow IV Artillery variation of Thunder LRMs introduced by the Terran Hegemony in 2621. Although preserved by the Clans, the design was lost to the Inner Sphere until it was recovered by the Capellan Confederation in 3051 following the Clan Invasion. The Capellans would go on to create variations that deployed Anti-Jump "Active" Mines and Vibrabombs in 3056.

Game Rules

Thunder Arrow Missiles are fired in the same manner as Arrow IV Missiles, however instead of dealing direct damage they deploy a minefield onto the target hex with a density of 30 points. Units within a hex struck by a Thunder missile may exit the minefield without damage, however other units passing through it follow the standard minefield rules.

Basically like the Cluster missile, but as opposed of exploding on impact, Mechs have to step on it to explode. The Thunder and the Inferno are relatively the same, only the Inferno has the chance to explode immediately, and cause fire that will hurt anything that passes through.

The two missiles are basically Area-Denial weapons that are fired in advance. It could be useful against lights, but not like they could use Jump-Jets to not step over the mine.

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Davy Crockett

Quote

Unfortunately the Davy Crockett-I has a maximum range of a little over one kilometer, which means the attacking infantry are as likely to be caught within the blast effect as the defenders are; as such they are not popular among the troops.

As per Sarna's description, it seems that the blast radius of the Davy Crockett is 1000m+, since the infantry launcher has a max range of 1000m, yet the launcher can be caught at the blast radius. With a power of 1/2 Kiloton of TNT, i do think that any mech directly hit, is pretty much ******* dead. How on the ******* Inner-Sphere can we ******* balance this ******* ****?

The obvious answer would probably be, "Don't implement it", and at that, as awesome it may be, it shouldn't be implemented.

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Final Thoughts

AIV is not really something that can be translated well into FPS. It's like it's for RTS games instead, that a player can command multiple units at once, have a top-down look at the entirety of the map, and direct an army, than just pilot a single mech. It's not impossible to have a 12-man team to be perfectly coordinated, but with how the Arrow IV is created, it's much more geared towards the RTS style of use.

If it were implemented in MWO right now, and if it were balanced, AIV would invariably be a completely different weapon that made the "AIV", being a portable Long-Tom. It could be just a different LRM, or just an upgrade into an "LRM30" with a slightly different mechanic.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 13 March 2017 - 06:02 AM.

[WolvesX]

Urbi + Arrow IV -> The unique proof GOD is REAL!

[The6thMessenger]

WolvesX, on 13 March 2017 - 05:22 AM, said:

Urbi + Arrow IV -> The unique proof GOD is REAL!

Wrong, Urbie + AIV = God.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 13 March 2017 - 05:37 AM.

[El Bandito]

There are certainly different battlefield application to all those versions of ARROW-IV. Biggest issue is that PGI doesn't know how to make switchable ammo work. And I aint lugging 15 tons of weapon just so I can only lay down smoke, and nothing else.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 March 2017 - 05:34 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

El Bandito, on 13 March 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

There are certainly different battlefield application to all those versions of ARROW-IV. Biggest issue is that PGI doesn't know how to make switchable ammo work. And I aint lugging 15 tons of weapon just so I can only lay down smoke.

I agree, but considering only the offensive stuff. Would it even be balanced, underwhelming, or even overwhelming if implemented? Supposed that we did the same C-AC/C-LBX **** on the offensive ammunition, how much impact do you think it has, and how unbalanced it is?

Supposed that PGI somehow fixes the ammo-switch, would the AIV even be balanced?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 13 March 2017 - 05:38 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Let's not overlook the biggest block to implementation (besides balance).

No split Crits. Arrow IV don't tend to fit without it. (Well, a Clan Mech with a STD engine could torso it. but no IS mech could)

[The6thMessenger]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 March 2017 - 05:39 AM, said:

Let's not overlook the biggest block to implementation (besides balance).

No split Crits. Arrow IV don't tend to fit without it. (Well, a Clan Mech with a STD engine could torso it. but no IS mech could)

Well, yeah. But PGI would probably just shrink it to 10 slots. Considering that UM-AIV had one in the arm, at least if they want it implemented at all.

[R Valentine]

Just go Arrow IV clusters only, no thunder bolts. Then they'd be more like MW2 mercs and less like MW4. Also, split criticals are a must. It won't even fit on IS mechs without it, which just further enforce the clan meta that PGI is already crafting.

[The6thMessenger]

Hmm, what about an Arrow 5? It just has 1200m max range, 270m min range, deals 24 damage, and 10-slot 14-ton for IS, 8-slot, 12 ton for Clans?

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 March 2017 - 05:39 AM, said:

Let's not overlook the biggest block to implementation (besides balance).

No split Crits. Arrow IV don't tend to fit without it. (Well, a Clan Mech with a STD engine could torso it. but no IS mech could)

PGI doesn't have to concern about split crit in the first place. They can simply make IS ARROW-IV 12 crits, (even 10 since IS ARROW-IV is 3 tons heavier than Clan counterpart), and nothing of value would be lost. Come to think of it, they should also make IS LB20X 9 slots, cause IS LBX sucks balls compared to the regular version.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 March 2017 - 06:06 AM.

[Appogee]

Imagine how boring matches would be when the PUGs got their hands on Arrow IVs instead of LRMs.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

The6thMessenger, on 13 March 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

Well, yeah. But PGI would probably just shrink it to 10 slots. Considering that UM-AIV had one in the arm, at least if they want it implemented at all.

Considering PGI has staaunchly avoided split crits, and refused to lower crit-size of weapons/equipment for balance... I'd say this is unlikely.

[Bishop Steiner]

The6thMessenger, on 13 March 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

Well, yeah. But PGI would probably just shrink it to 10 slots. Considering that UM-AIV had one in the arm, at least if they want it implemented at all.

that would be a precedent I really don't want set, because then you get everyone wanting their pet gun shrunk.

[The6thMessenger]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 March 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

That would be a precedent I really don't want set, because then you get everyone wanting their pet gun shrunk.

The difference is that PGI would shrink AIV for it to be mounted at all, not to buff an already existing equipment. Or at least "peg gun" being an already implemented weapon.

I wouldn't mind if PGI shrank Long Tom too.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

The6thMessenger, on 13 March 2017 - 06:35 AM, said:

The difference is that PGI would shrink AIV for it to be mounted at all, not to buff an already existing equipment. Or at least "peg gun" being an already implemented weapon.

I wouldn't mind if PGI shrank Long Tom too.

"Here are these weapons, I like these weapons... put these weapons in the game because I like them, I don't care about crit balance, just shrink the crits."

This is you, this is literally you right now...

stop... just, stop.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I used to be a Mechwarrior like you, then I took an Arrow IV to th.....ahh nevermind.

[Jackal Noble]

How about not?

[Bishop Steiner]

The6thMessenger, on 13 March 2017 - 06:35 AM, said:

The difference is that PGI would shrink AIV for it to be mounted at all, not to buff an already existing equipment. Or at least "peg gun" being an already implemented weapon.

I wouldn't mind if PGI shrank Long Tom too.

How about we shrink HeavyGauus, too? And you know, I think that Heavy PPC are too heavy, so yeah, them. Gosh why are MRM40s so darn big?

[Andi Nagasia]

i vote, these (Arrow IV) Stats,
Weapon,.....Damage,...Heat,...Velocity,...Cool-down,...Range,...Max Range,...Tons,...Crit*,
IS-Arrow IV,......20..........10.........240...........4.00.......180-1800......1800...........15.......10...
C-Arrow IV,.......20..........10.........240...........5.50.......180-1800......1800...........12.......10...
(Clan has 1/2Sec higher Cooldown per 1Ton less in weight(Total +1.5Sec -1.5Tons)
(have their Crit space reduced as per no Crit Splitting in MWO)

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 13 March 2017 - 12:25 PM.

[Skanderborg]

If someone takes the time to expose oneself to hold tag on a target so another can launch a giant missile , in my opinion they should be rewarded with 20-30 damage for the team effort.