369 replies to this topic

[I cant want to]

i would rather see the tech upgrade before the skill tree, not the skill tree then the tech upgrade

that would allow pgi to release a skill tree with the new tech already factored in, instead of having to rework the tree with new nodes after it is live

[James Argent]

I really like how the very first sentence of the announcement states that the testing of new content (Incursion Mode) on the PTS won't be delayed by addressing the current Skill Tree system's multiple issues identified by both players and staff. 'New content' isn't my personal bugbear, but it is for a lot of players so it's good that they aren't getting shafted.

I also appreciate the change to a standard of not losing progress. This was what worried me the most about changing to Skill Trees.

What I didn't see addressed: since respeccing is still going to have a cost associated with it, we should have a 'try before you buy' option to take a build to the testing grounds before committing to spending XP/C-Bills on it.

[VANHELSKIN]

HEAPS OF US HAVE BEEN BUYING MODULES KNOWING WE WOULD GET C-BILLS BACK BECAUSE OF SPEEDING UP DROPS NOT HAVING TO GO THROUGH MECHS TO FIND MODULES IF THEY GO BACK ON THAT GOODBYE ME CAUSE YOU ******* LIED AND I WASTED 60 MILLION C-BILLS WHICH EQUALS 100S OF HOURS GRINDING

[Digital_Angel]

Ruar, on 13 March 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

It's not shelved. It's delayed for testing so they can put out a better product. The skill tree will happen, we just want something that doesn't alienate the majority of the player base.

I'm amazed at the number of people who can't be asked to read what is actually written and see the intent behind the delay and the fact we will get the skill tree in the not so distant future.

Oh, I read what the post said, but after Info Warfare, Energy Draw, and other past systems that have gone through PTS and then were never heard from again, well, call me skeptical that the Skill Tree will ever be implemented.

TKSax, on 13 March 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

So when it's feedback you agree with that gets changes made its great, but when it's feedback you don't agree with its whining.

No, there were changes between the PTS revisions that I liked and that I didn't, but I recognized that PGI was making changes based on feedback, even for the changes I didn't like. Personally I thought the separate weapon trees were a better thing and forced players to make choices in how they would specialize a mech. I was also glad when they reduced the cost per node. I still saw potential issues with undoing much of the balance work between mechs and between IS and Clan that they had achieved in the past, although a few tweaks could have gone a long way to remedy some of that, such as changing the max number of nodes for IS vs Clan or on a per mech basis to rebalance things if needed.

When a vocal part of the community basically goes "DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING OR WE WILL LEAVE" every time a major mechanics change is announced though, that is just whining. I call it vocal, because I am honestly not sure how big it is, just how loud it appears.

I really hope PGI makes a few changes and comes back with the next PTS for the skill tree, and that i'm wrong about it being shelved. I also know that every single person in the group I play with regularly was looking forward to it hitting this month. Even with flaws, it was a big step in the right direction.

[Trennbull]

Thank you PGI, this is highly appreciated!

I now have the feeling that you are really committed to make this happen in a way that will very likely make most of the players happy and continue to support this game.

I will therefore now order the Assassins package that I was looking forward to and held back.

Edited by Trennbull, 13 March 2017 - 11:18 PM.

[Krasnopesky]

Excellent news! It is obvious that more time is needed to get the Skill Tree right.

[Gylfie]

Why? Because of some number of haters?
I like new skill tree.
Game need development. Not stagnation.

PS: I have 130+ mechs. And like new skill tree

[Too Much Love]

VANHELSKIN, on 13 March 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

HEAPS OF US HAVE BEEN BUYING MODULES KNOWING WE WOULD GET C-BILLS BACK BECAUSE OF SPEEDING UP DROPS NOT HAVING TO GO THROUGH MECHS TO FIND MODULES IF THEY GO BACK ON THAT GOODBYE ME CAUSE YOU ******* LIED AND I WASTED 60 MILLION C-BILLS WHICH EQUALS 100S OF HOURS GRINDING

I didn't buy anything, because I knew there was a good chance it would turn out to be a huge bubble.

IMHO this period of uncertainity negativly affects playerbase. We don't know what to expect. Do I need to buy 3 mechs know to grind? Buy new mechs at all? Buy modules? Use gxp? Nobody can tell, it's better to wait.

[L1f3H4ck]

Well, I guess the cheapskates are having a vocal minority party on their sad little island right now.

[kesmai]

Not only you are dilletants, your got no balls either pgi.
I'm close to cancel my preorder because you deliver nothing. Petty patches nu mechs and nothing.
Get a spine and work you slacking heap of incompetence.
After all the years you haven't learned a thing.
Not. One. Thing.

[ZortPointNarf]

justcallme A S H, on 13 March 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

...
- Focus on the game modes (escort is disliked by majority)
...

I know there are quite a lot of people that dislike the mode, but it is currently my favourite game mode. Assault is nothing more than Skirmish, same with damnation mode, conquest could be fun, but you get rewarded **** playing as a light and actually capturing the points, if you don't deal damage, you can't even replace the uav's you dropped. (BTW, I think using a UAV should reward you with the CB cost if you spot at least one opponent mech with it, same goes for the others, if their use is a direct impact on the enemy you get a "refund". If you pop it whilst key binding you are out of luck.
Escort mode just needs an update to the defending team's mini-map to show the route Retardius Maximus is going to take. You security detail can't really do their job if they don't know where you are going. But its great fun, it kills Nascar and forces a moving battle, with assaults actually having to bodily shield the VIP, which I find great fun.

[Appogee]

Sad to see it delayed, but I guess this is the right decision.

Please do get it done within the next month. The game needs some variety and change.

VANHELSKIN, on 13 March 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

HEAPS OF US HAVE BEEN BUYING MODULES KNOWING WE WOULD GET C-BILLS BACK BECAUSE OF SPEEDING UP DROPS NOT HAVING TO GO THROUGH MECHS TO FIND MODULES IF THEY GO BACK ON THAT GOODBYE ME CAUSE YOU ******* LIED AND I WASTED 60 MILLION C-BILLS WHICH EQUALS 100S OF HOURS GRINDING

LOL. I too bought some modules in the past week because I thought I'd get the money back next week.

But I'm not very concerned about it.

[Frytrixa]

Good community communication! Thanks for the update and status.
But I still don't get your point regarding players with fewer modules and refund.
If I have mastered 10mechs and only have one full set of moduels everytime switching I also have only one "real" masterd" mech while 9 remain "unfinished", so why shouldn't it be so at the new system?
It may sound harsch, but if you haven't geared up in the old system, why should you gain full at the new?

If you want to give those players a benefit, just make calculation?
PlayerX = modules >50 = full refund
PlayerY = modules <50 = full refund +50% of the refund value

I don't know if it makes sense in the system, but sounds fair to me at the moment


EDIT: I own 212 mechs, 90% with at least radar dep and seismic... don't even think about cutting the refund, it was some sort of a goal to fully equip all mechs and I spent alot of everything to achieve that.

Edited by Frytrixa, 13 March 2017 - 11:40 PM.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Russ Bullock, on 13 March 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

I few thoughts on the subject.

Many might view this as similar to power draw in that it might seemingly be delayed indefinitely, at this point in time that is certainly not the case. While energy draw showed some interesting promise and I would like re explore that at some point it was ultimately an experimental feature. The new skill tree is still viewed internally as a solid improvement to the balance of the game and the starting point for so many new balance methods.

As to the skill tree, I think some levels of disagreement on the right path for balance or the layout of the skill tree nodes would be expected and could be accepted. As the shortcomings in our transition process became clear and we could see that certain players were going to lose progress that became obviously unacceptable and we had no choice but to delay.

As Alex mentioned this discovery helped us realize we had to adjust our refund plan to one of refunding progress.

As we rectify these problems we will also take time to further refine the user interface as well as continue to make as many balance improvements as possible.

Anyone else get hung up on "at this point in time"?

[Appogee]

There's nothing in their announcement that indicates they understand two of the key downsides of the new Skill Tree:

That it would - in effect - widen the Clan Tech advantage over IS;

That under-performing chassis, many of which have already had most of their quirks removed, would become non-viable.

While most people seem to be focused on their refunds, I think the above remain the biggest design issues and concerns.

[AngrySpartan]

That's good to know there is common sense afterall. Thank you PGI for admitting that skill tree in it's current state just can't go live!

Hopefully next time I will be pleased to say "Thank you PGI for listening to community and taking actions!" What's the point of having PTS and forum sub-tree and all the feedback if the only thing taken into account is Russ's twitter and comments during NGNG podcast? Please don't hesitate to listen to the player's suggestions AND consider the solutions we offer as a community.
Like Solahma's proposal:

Or like this topic (approx. 200 players voted, I assume that's a majority of people who tried PTS):
https://mwomercs.com...have-consensus/

See you next PTS guys!

Edited by AngrySpartan, 13 March 2017 - 11:55 PM.

[Edward Hazen]

VANHELSKIN, on 13 March 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

HEAPS OF US HAVE BEEN BUYING MODULES KNOWING WE WOULD GET C-BILLS BACK BECAUSE OF SPEEDING UP DROPS NOT HAVING TO GO THROUGH MECHS TO FIND MODULES IF THEY GO BACK ON THAT GOODBYE ME CAUSE YOU ******* LIED AND I WASTED 60 MILLION C-BILLS WHICH EQUALS 100S OF HOURS GRINDING

Goodbye you! I don't care about buying and mastering hundreds of mechs when there are only three or four that I actually like to play (for viability and nostalgia reasons). I will be happy to be getting enough back to max out most of the mechs I like.

[Skybirduk]

There is one argument as to why the Skill Tree might need to be delayed and that is because of the potential of the 3060's update. Imagine having all of your mechs set up on the new Skill Tree system, only to have to alter it when new weapons and equipment come out.

[XX BURT XX]

Well I was looking forward to the release, as the talks and feelings along the community were intense and annoying, but I am also very happy that developers do listen to the player base, that is the way. Thanks and fingers crossed to fix all the issues.

[Kmieciu]

DAYLEET, on 13 March 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

I don't know how you are going to reconcile your need to not have players with billions of cbills and players without loss of previous grind but i hope you succeed in your endeavour.

I don't see how having players with billions of cbills is a bad thing for MWO.
- people will buy more mechs, that means more MC spent on mechbays, camo patterns, colors, decals, cockpit items, warhorns.
- people will have the c-bills to master a newly bought mech right from the start (that will promote GXP conversion)
- they will afford to invite new players into their units
- they will be more happy for the tech jump (light XL engines and snub nosed PPCs for everyone!)

- if someone does not want to buy new stuff with c-bills it does not matter how much c-bills he's got on his account (it's just a number in the database). I know people that currently have 100+ million C-bills unused , because they "have all the mechs they will ever need". Giving those players another billion won't change their attitude and won't generate any income for PGI.

NlGHTBlRD, on 13 March 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

If you put all points into DPS (weapons and operations) for example, you will only be equal to today's mech DPS performance...

Incorrect. DPS have been greatly reduced with the new tree. In previous system everybody could get 5%(fast fire)+ 12% (cooldown module) = 17% cooldown reduction. With the new skill tree that was reduced to 8.8% (Clan) and 10% (IS). What is more, numerous mechs lost cooldown quirks.
That promotes high alpha even further. (as if wasn't enough meta already)

Edited by Kmieciu, 14 March 2017 - 12:35 AM.