369 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

I am highly disappointed seeing yet another upgrade to the game get pushed back yet again.. Please, i beg you don't pull another ED or infowars.. Both were solid ideas that needed a bit more time. This one was by far the best implementation of an upgrade yet.

Was totally psyched for next week... guess not

[Deltree Zero]

Thank you.

Its a shame everyone has to go to such extremes for you all to take us seriously.

[FrigginWaffle]

Thanks for clearing this up and giving it more time. The biggest gripe for using skills on mechs is the c-bill cost tied to it. Maybe try to tone that down (at all if possible. People have been wondering what XP is for otherwise). Make respecing cost free too. It's kinda ridiculous to go put a penalty on changing a loadout besides the cost of wepaons already. You've been doing a very good job of balancing mechs with quirks, so I'm sure you can do that again under the new system. More testing is always a good idea. Keep up the good work.

Edited by FrigginWaffle, 13 March 2017 - 07:58 PM.

[Carminus]

This was a logical and correct step. I know you want to push this out, but cooler heads prevailed. You will not make everyone happy, it's impossible. Some people simply hate change. The best you can do is mitigate the negatives by showing the positives of new system and have done extensive testing private and public. Microsoft knows this all too well (granted you don't have their budget).

Though I keep repeating myself, I would change the "honey comb" UI tree with something like below:



or tweak you old one below with updated skill options. use the tab format where each tab you point points into like above. Think hybrid between Witcher 3 above and your UI below.

[TLBFestus]

Alexander Garden, on 13 March 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

we wanted to express some of our thoughts on the missteps regarding the original proposal

I think I'm going to frame this. It's the first time that I can remember that anyone from PGI seems to be admitting they might have been wrong with respect to some part of the game.

[TKSax]

Tsula, on 13 March 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

whine and cheese win again. Tried of supporting the comp crowd min max. Why bother anymore another push back on a system that was worth it. probably not in the majority in this thinking. hell I play for fun not twitch alpha one shot kills. That's all this game is becoming anymore. Or Back to ERPPC and gauss snipe or ERLL snipe poke.. whatever... I still adapt to the crap and move on not whine like we have not. Again money talks I guess.

The Skill tree was not going to change any of that, in fact it would have probably made it worse.

[stealthraccoon]

If you could keep it at the level of Duplo blocks for me, I'd appreciate it - all those clicky bits and chain builds were scary to me!

[Brakkyn]

This is likely another example why certain things they've tried to implement years ago never stayed in or got implemented in the first place. I think caving to player complaints is a bad way to run a railroad. You can't run an online game like a democracy or by committee.

We're still getting a new skill tree, and people still won't like it. The only thing delayed here is the inevitable.

[Ahh Screw it - WATCH THIS]

Thank you!

[Russ Bullock]

I few thoughts on the subject.

Many might view this as similar to power draw in that it might seemingly be delayed indefinitely, at this point in time that is certainly not the case. While energy draw showed some interesting promise and I would like re explore that at some point it was ultimately an experimental feature. The new skill tree is still viewed internally as a solid improvement to the balance of the game and the starting point for so many new balance methods.

As to the skill tree, I think some levels of disagreement on the right path for balance or the layout of the skill tree nodes would be expected and could be accepted. As the shortcomings in our transition process became clear and we could see that certain players were going to lose progress that became obviously unacceptable and we had no choice but to delay.

As Alex mentioned this discovery helped us realize we had to adjust our refund plan to one of refunding progress.

As we rectify these problems we will also take time to further refine the user interface as well as continue to make as many balance improvements as possible.

[DAYLEET]

I don't know how you are going to reconcile your need to not have players with billions of cbills and players without loss of previous grind but i hope you succeed in your endeavour.

Thanks for trying at least.

Im not one to agree that the tree was hard to read or complicated but id like unchained nodes and then maybe lower the numbers to balance it as needed. I know im not part of the majority but i like to build mech differently and chaining nodes together pretty much prevent that. I can't find a good middle ground with chained nodes and i feel compelled to have the same thing depending of the weight class. I could be wrong, challenge me if i am. Quite possible i missed something but the perks right now are locked and they are a reasons why i play different variant, if the tree permit the same thing or better i didnt see it. Maybe its too easy to just take the best thing when you feel your choice limited(because of chaining).

Thanks again.

I wana add that this will not be properly tested until it hits live. This certainly is scary but we wont know for sure and i cant wait to play with it. While it needs tweaks, i hope it does not get "dumbdown" back to what we had.

Edited by DAYLEET, 13 March 2017 - 07:08 PM.

[Big Tin Man]

I have said it before, and will say it again:

The first 40-60 unlocks should cost xp only, or be tiered to a significantly lower cost that ramps up at the end to represent buying modules after you master a mech. The xp only cost will act similar to eliting under the old system. For the remaining 30-50 unlocks, that's where Paul can get the 9.1 million cbill sink he's looking for without screwing over new players or module swappers with a lot of mechs.

Yes, it is no longer in perfect pairty with the old system, but it is a compromise that keeps the best of the best unlocks for the rich grinders, but still offers very competitive mechs for the dedicated but space poor.

Edited by Big Tin Man, 13 March 2017 - 07:10 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Thanks for listening and hopefully it was the rational ones getting through that gave you pause, would hate for the inmates to run the asylum...

[Nightbird]

Please actually deepen the skill tree as compared with today's all-around skills. If you put all points into DPS (weapons and operations) for example, you will only be equal to today's mech DPS performance... at the expense of mobility and no seismic sensor/radar deprivation. One can say the skill tree is shallower with choices...

Edited by NlGHTBlRD, 13 March 2017 - 07:09 PM.

[MuonNeutrino]

Russ Bullock, on 13 March 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

Many might view this as similar to power draw in that it might seemingly be delayed indefinitely, at this point in time that is certainly not the case. While energy draw showed some interesting promise and I would like re explore that at some point it was ultimately an experimental feature. The new skill tree is still viewed internally as a solid improvement to the balance of the game and the starting point for so many new balance methods.

Thank you for not shelving this indefinitely. While I am definitely one of those who thought the new system wasn't ready to go live, I am fully in agreement that there *is* a good idea in here trying to get out. It just needs more time in the oven and some pruning and rethinking. (Along those lines, please take another look at Solahma's skill tree proposal. I think there are a lot of good ideas in there, particularly the core 'non-branching trees balanced by strength of nodes rather than by filler' idea.) It would be a shame for it go the way of infowar and power draw and just vanish.

[Andi Nagasia]

im saddened to keep seeing new / reworked features pushed back,

[Pariah Devalis]

I understand that for the dev team, there is likely quite a sensation of lost progress on your behalf as well. Please do not view it as such. The harsher the criticism, the easier it is to spot the flaws, and you can only fix something if you see it is broken in the first place. What you did so far was not wasted time or energy. You all created something grand in scope, and now you see some of the flaws in the execution. That gives you a place to focus efforts.

While I wasn't 100% against the release of the skill tree, I'd have been lying if I said I felt it wasn't terribly flawed in several respects. As such, I must applaud the decision to delay with further testing the skill tree roll out. It is better to identify a critically flawed approach and delay it until it is in a more acceptable state than to release it and cause harm in the progress.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 13 March 2017 - 07:17 PM.

[Lupis Volk]

Good PGI you finally listed to your player base who keeps your lights on.

This'll be your one and only chance to not screw things up. One person by the same of So1ahmas has their own mock skill tree. It makes leagues more sense than your, best copy it.

[Vxheous]

Brakkyn, on 13 March 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

This is likely another example why certain things they've tried to implement years ago never stayed in or got implemented in the first place. I think caving to player complaints is a bad way to run a railroad. You can't run an online game like a democracy or by committee.

We're still getting a new skill tree, and people still won't like it. The only thing delayed here is the inevitable.

A new skill tree isn't the problem, it's the implementation of this particular skill tree that was the problem. When the remaining loyal players that PGI has left lost 50%+ of their mech progress that they have accrued over the last 4 years, it became easy to just say "move on to another game". The loss of a good chunk of paying playerbase without any way to gain new players (MWO is a niche game after all) would have been disastrous for PGI.

[Cpt Leprechaun]

step in the right direction PGI credit where credit is due. With that in mind.

PLEASE reconsider the overall design to what So1ahma provides in his reddit post and youtube video. It is in my opinion and many others ,from the looks of it, a fantastic way to introduce the skill tree system. Let it do the talking for me.

<--- Please watch in full

as found on his reddit post https://www.reddit.c...9ei&sh=d6f9c516

Edited by Cpt Leprechaun, 13 March 2017 - 07:21 PM.