236 replies to this topic

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

@OP: It looks like it's still coming, just not immediately, and the refund will be larger than anticipated to accommodate those who played the game according to the rules PGI had laid out with regard to module swapping who would have been unfairly penalized by not getting enough of a refund to cover re-buying skills for all the mechs they had Mastered.

I kind of expect the expanded refund system will include a c-bill credit for each skill unlocked, likely prorated based on the skill's XP cost (so Master would get you as much as all the Elite skills combined, and Speed Tweak would get you eight times as many c-bills as Arm Reflex or whathaveyou).

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 14 March 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

@OP: It looks like it's still coming, just not immediately, and the refund will be larger than anticipated to accommodate those who played the game according to the rules PGI had laid out with regard to module swapping who would have been unfairly penalized by not getting enough of a refund to cover re-buying skills for all the mechs they had Mastered.

I kind of expect the expanded refund system will include a c-bill credit for each skill unlocked, likely prorated based on the skill's XP cost (so Master would get you as much as all the Elite skills combined, and Speed Tweak would get you eight times as many c-bills as Arm Reflex or whathaveyou).

I hope this is the case, and not just wishful thinking.

[RussianWolf]

Not saying that it was my post in Bishops thread that got noticed. But it could have been as it seemed to be exactly what they say is making them rethink the refund equation.

I have 270+ mech variants (280 all in with a few duplicates with 278 mastered) mastered.

I have maybe a dozen modules because I never really used them. I don't think I have a single Radar Derp for example. I was not one of the ones moving them around as I changed mechs.... that was too many clicks to be worth it. I bought them for specific builds (maybe an advanced zoom for a sniper kind of thing).

So it would take over a billion cbills to fully master them all again. Maybe 500million to get them back to about where they are now. I won't be getting those cbills from the refund as it was set, only mostly XP.

That would be a significant penalty for me.

[Cabusha]

It's the story of online gaming. It doesn't matter how bad an existing mechanic is, they community will fear a replacement. Anything that is a change gets interpreted as a loss and the pitchforks come out. The skill tree we've had since closed beta sucks, it was meant as a placeholder. They should have replaced it years ago.

Blah, again, we're going to have a patch without content. Two full patches of zilch now because this community. You guys are going to kill this game with your search for perfection. Which honestly, I think is the intent.

Edited by Cabusha, 14 March 2017 - 04:52 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

RussianWolf, on 14 March 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

Not saying that it was my post in Bishops thread that got noticed. But it could have been as it seemed to be exactly what they say is making them rethink the refund equation.

I have 270+ mech variants (280 all in with a few duplicates with 278 mastered) mastered.

I have maybe a dozen modules because I never really used them. I don't think I have a single Radar Derp for example. I was not one of the ones moving them around as I changed mechs.... that was too many clicks to be worth it. I bought them for specific builds (maybe an advanced zoom for a sniper kind of thing).

So it would take over a billion cbills to fully master them all again. Maybe 500million to get them back to about where they are now. I won't be getting those cbills from the refund as it was set, only mostly XP.

That would be a significant penalty for me.

Yeah, ok, that's a totally understandable problem in that instance... and I do hope that's one of the reasons they backed off, hopefully they'll fix it.

still, again, I know I'm beating a dead horse here [snickers] but pgi's trackrecord on "we're pushing it back" is "it's dead jim."

[Alan Davion]

Cabusha, on 14 March 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

It's the story of online gaming. It doesn't matter how bad an existing mechanic is, they community will fear a replacement. Anything that is a change gets interpreted as a loss and the pitchforks come out. The skill tree we've had since closed beta sucks, it was meant as a placeholder. They should have replaced it years ago.

Blah, again, we're going to have a patch without content. Two full patches of zilch now because this community. You guys are going to kill this game with your search for perfection. Which honestly, I think is the intent.

God you could not be more wrong if you tried.

[Sorbic]

Although it's not as easily replaceable as some folks here pretend (with piss poor alternatives masquerading as better) it is the system needed more work. Sorry but it was simply near sighted to not offer a real alternative to avoid progress loss for people who play the game differently than the folks crying about players "gaming" the system. Plus the skills and interface still needed a little tweeking.

Ultimately I'm glad PGI showed that they are concerned about the majority of their player base and hope to see it back in testing soon.

[BumbleBee]

I saw the MadCat MKII and the new weapons on my phone on my lunch break, saw the Anni too and was humming and harring about getting it as well. Got home and had my wallet in my hand as I sat down at the computer. Luckily I decided to do the regular forum reading that I do, and I saw this thread.

I was looking forward to the new skill tree. The game has gotten very stale and I've found myself playing less and less over time. Something to shake things up a bit was VERY welcome.

Wallet is now closed, no purchase made.

EDIT:
The skill tree was not as I had hoped it would be, I had hoped for every bonus to also come at a performance cost, but it wasn't terrible either.

I splashed out on quite a few extra modules after the announcement that they would be refunded anyway, so Im down ~70M CBills for the extra modules on top of the ones that I already owned.

Im one of the "Cheapskates" with ~120 Mechs, and I had no problems with the new system. Worst case, I'd trim my stable a bit, and re-play Mechs I haven't taken out in a long time.

Very disappointed.

Edited by BumbleBee, 14 March 2017 - 05:14 PM.

[RussianWolf]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

Yeah, ok, that's a totally understandable problem in that instance... and I do hope that's one of the reasons they backed off, hopefully they'll fix it.

still, again, I know I'm beating a dead horse here [snickers] but pgi's trackrecord on "we're pushing it back" is "it's dead jim."

How about their track record of "we'll put it in and fix it later" The current Skill Tree placeholder is 5 years old. PGI lost my confidence many many moons ago... heck many trips around the sun ago for that matter.

[oldradagast]

RussianWolf, on 14 March 2017 - 05:04 PM, said:

How about their track record of "we'll put it in and fix it later" The current Skill Tree placeholder is 5 years old. PGI lost my confidence many many moons ago... heck many trips around the sun ago for that matter.

White Knights never talk about that. The OP was saying PGI should have just shoved this mess into the game and "balanced dynamically live." PGI has never demonstrated any ability do that in a timely, logical, or successful manner. It would be huge gamble with a high-end company; with PGI, it would have been nothing but failure and done even more damage to the concept of a better skill system than simply backing off on it for a few months.

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

I hope this is the case, and not just wishful thinking.

Although you probably don't believe me, I honestly hope the work towards a good, new skill system doesn't die, either. While what was presented was terrible, the CONCEPT has so much potential. People still wistfully talk about roles and how they were supposedly a "pillar" of the game. The skill system is, IMHO, the time to add those roles. Make it simple, but give people obvious roles with skills in each role. It would be a huge step forward and go back to addressing what many folks consider a failed promise - roles mattering in the game.

Edited by oldradagast, 14 March 2017 - 05:30 PM.

[DAYLEET]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

again, I may not have had the proper mental resources, and knee jerked a reaction to all this.

Geee ya think? lol. PGI said it clearly that the tree wasnt going away and it was going to happen. People didnt want the tree gone either, like they did for other things before. they wanted it to accomplish the goals listed by PGI themselves. And then ofcourse, personal preferences all over the place that can be looked at or be dismissed i dont care.

This is the first time pgi push back a feature based on player feedback instead of cancelling it. I always felt it was spiteful to cancel something you put so much work instead of comming to an agreement or try to reason with people if you can.

This is something pgi never done before(maybe Assault Mode but we have no proof that it's the player concern that got it on the backburner). When was the last time pgi said ok we made a mistake and we're going to fix it? I see that as a victory and hopefully a better future for mwo. Cancelling stuff=bad, fixing stuff or reaching people halfway=good. Im not asking for everything, just better compromise.

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

I shouldn't have spit the kind of vitrol I did at people, and for that, i apologize, I understand that at the end of the day the decision is on PGI.

eh ive seen worse... ive done worse myself. Still can't swallow the fkin voting system(never will) and it's the first thing that get on my nerves and get me to go play something else. But yeah im still here, still coming back and i still buy stuff but not near as often as i used to. Gota admit i didnt preorder the jav only because of the tree but i put that cash into the Kodiak because i thought that cash was better spent while i could use it before the tree hit. I missed on the Jav colours now, too late. Im gona get the lights heroes for sure and probably the new IS mech and yeah the colours play a big part for me(dont care for premium time personaly). I wish they werent temporary, now ill have no reason to pay for the jav because of this. I bought R2 because of all the colours that came with it, pgi should take that into consideration and not lock those think in a small timeframe.

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 March 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

and now, it's just more of the same "buy a mechpack."

You realise that this new mechpack is probably the first reason PGI is fixing stuff right? But ffs, when i look at all the new weapon and shits, i can't believe pgi think have people with too much cbills is a bad thing, it's all gona get erased as soon as the patch hit wgen we need a brand new inventory of weapon engine etc. I don't identify myself as a chinese gold farmer.

[Braireos]

CMDR,

I'm right there with you. 168 mechs in my stable and many many hours of play, but now I'm just pissed off and frustrated that we have another promise with apparent lack of action.

But then I get on the battlefield in (one of my 168 mechs) and have a good time. And all is okay. Not perfect, but okay.

The community AND PGI needs a dose of understanding this:

http://www.bbc.com/f...the-worst-in-us

Cheers

Braireos

Edited by Braireos, 14 March 2017 - 05:30 PM.

[Cabusha]

Alan Davion, on 14 March 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

God you could not be more wrong if you tried.

I really don't think so. This game has been stagnant for a year because every potential feature to hit PTS has been killed by this community.

[Deathlike]

Cabusha, on 14 March 2017 - 05:37 PM, said:

I really don't think so. This game has been stagnant for a year because every potential feature to hit PTS has been killed by this community incompetent design and poor implementation.

FTFY

[Alan Davion]

Deathlike, on 14 March 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

FTFY

Cabusha, on 14 March 2017 - 05:37 PM, said:

I really don't think so. This game has been stagnant for a year because every potential feature to hit PTS has been killed by this community.

Info War. Good idea. Atrociously implemented. PGI basically took a 55 gallon drum of crap, threw it against the wall and nothing stuck. PGI's fault it didn't work. Not ours.

Energy Draw. A good idea by the community. Twisted around and perverted by PGI because "they know better". Again. PGI's fault it didn't work. Not ours.

The same thing happened with the skill trees. The players told PGI there were still problems with the trees and the associated changes they were going to make, and they were STILL going to push all those problems to the live server which would have severely wrecked probably 90% of the mechs in the game.

The players stopped PGI from dropping a nuclear scale nerf on the whole game, not to mention making them aware of the problems they still had with the refund program.

[Jubblator]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 13 March 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

No seriously, congrats guys, you did it, you've forced yet another attempt by the company that owns the game, to cowtail to you.

Out of all the things PGI has done over the years...I'd actually hoped this would go through. After Coolantgate, 3pv, the Island... all of that... I saw hope, I was honestly looking forward to this system. Not just for changes sake, but it honestly looked interesting to me, it looked new, and fresh.

I understand the balance concerns many of you had, I get it... but there's always going to be an inherent imbalance to the game as long as Clan's weapons differ from IS, and have different damage values and the like. It's just how the game's going to work, because Clans are INHERENTLY imbalanced to IS, because that's what happened in the core Battletech game. The balancing factor of Clan vs IS were unit sizes, and clan dogma [which is NEVER represented here]

So congrats, on destroying one of the few features that I was looking forward to. The Refund was going to help me set up specifically the mechs I wanted to work on anyway, the skill tree was FINALLY going to get rid of the 3 mechs to master rule... and by god we were going to get rid of the pointless convergence node in the current tree!

And to PGI, I'm sorry you have such a ****** base of players that question your every single attempt to do something... I know you're not perfect, and I've had enough beef with you over the years [to the point that Russ blocked me on twitter for even warning him of an uprising some 4 years ago.. would still love to be unblocked by the way, I can't see any of his posts.].

So congrats guys, you stalled out what would have honestly, been a saving grace to this game. Good job.

Thank you all of you whiners/whales/whatnot that reduced the player base yet again due to your friggin entitled comments and reasoning. Hope you like longer queues because the removal of the 3 mechs to master rule was one of the huge draws for new and returning players alike, i hope you get friggin gutted with mechpacks where you have to buy three mechs to get that only good one you like.

[Ted Wayz]

I would like PGI to replace the tier you play with the tier you pay. That way I can judge how much I should pay attention to some of these posts. I know PGI does.

What is convenient and works for the freeloaders shouldn't move the dial. What makes the whales go to deeper waters and not be seen again...that bears paying attention to.

In short if you have 10 mechs fully mastered and moduled that you payed nothing for I could give a rats *** about your opinion. You really do not have a dog in this fight.

[Imperius]

It's still going through...
I'm pro skill Tree...
I was not pro "get bent because you module swapped"...

So it needed more work.

I don't care about the more clicks issue but I understand it.

Anyway fix the progress issue and I'm ok with it.

I'll still, carry harder, win most of matches, and stomp most of my opponents in the game.

[Jubblator]

Ted Wayz, on 14 March 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

I would like PGI to replace the tier you play with the tier you pay. That way I can judge how much I should pay attention to some of these posts. I know PGI does.

What is convenient and works for the freeloaders shouldn't move the dial. What makes the whales go to deeper waters and not be seen again...that bears paying attention to.

In short if you have 10 mechs fully mastered and moduled that you payed nothing for I could give a rats *** about your opinion. You really do not have a dog in this fight.

So you mean you want the queue times to go up by making newcomers feel completely unwelcome?
Buying mechpacks is not like buying company stocks, you incidentally cant have 10 mechs without paying anything, let alone mastered. Only catering to the whales will kill the game right off, due to long queue times (low player base) and low revenue potential (killing off game completely). If you think 100 players paying say 1000 dollars each are "worth" more to a multiplayer only gane then a 10000 players paying 10 dollars each (for easy maths sake), then youre sorely mistaken. There is more worth in it for a company to cater to the middle ground, thus keeping the game alive and having funds to develop it further (Blizzard anyone?)
If the only thing keeping this game alive are the whales, then this game is doomed.
This patch had the potential to bring back old players (like me) and bring in new ones.

[Mystere]

Jubblator, on 14 March 2017 - 06:19 PM, said:

Thank you all of you whiners/whales/whatnot that reduced the player base yet again due to your friggin entitled comments and reasoning. Hope you like longer queues because the removal of the 3 mechs to master rule was one of the huge draws for new and returning players alike, i hope you get friggin gutted with mechpacks where you have to buy three mechs to get that only good one you like.

I think you rightfully deserve the same comment, if not even more so, for using a very wide brush:

Mystere, on 14 March 2017 - 03:42 PM, said:

I was not going to comment, especially because I was neither in favor nor against, but the extremely salty vitriol you are spewing at others just because you did not get what you wanted made me change my mind.

And, oh, **** you! You definitely deserve that.

Edited by Mystere, 14 March 2017 - 06:46 PM.