49 replies to this topic

[soapyfrog]

Jubblator, on 15 March 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

I will say it again, this way the game is getting stale and steadily losing its player base, returning players like me were excited and started investing again into the game with the news of the skill patch.

The costs of the skill tree hurt you as well, you just haven't fully appreciated it yet because you just aren't that deep into the game.

You will be better off if they introduce it with lower costs. Everyone will be better off. The game will be better off. Happier players = more money spent.

Taxxian, on 15 March 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

That actually counts as new stuff and no one should expect to get those free for all mechs without any additional grind... no one

It's not really new stuff, though. It's just a re-arrangement of old stuff, and it is not worth the price they are asking.

There is no reason why skills can't be 10k per node, for example. It isn't free, but it is affordable for everyone. And then YOU will have MORE MONEY to spend on all that awesome new tech!!

Edited by soapyfrog, 15 March 2017 - 04:22 PM.

[Athom83]

soapyfrog, on 15 March 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

The costs of the skill tree hurt you as well, you just haven't fully appreciated it yet because you just aren't that deep into the game.

Not as much as the costs of purchasing an additional 2 mechs + loadouts + modules to fill in those mechs.

soapyfrog, on 15 March 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

You will be better off if they introduce it with lower costs. Everyone will be better off. The game will be better off. Happier players = more money spent.

This is exactly what they said they wanted. They will do eventually and it will be even cheaper.

soapyfrog, on 15 March 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

It's not really new stuff, though. It's just a re-arrangement of old stuff, and it is not worth the price they are asking.

There was a lot of new stuff in the new skill tree. Being able to upgrade your survivability (in some cases it would take 300+ damage to take out a heavy or 400+ to destroy an assault). Being able to fit 6 consumables, with multiples of a single type as well. Being able to have the affects of more than 2 mech modules. Being able to increase your shots per ton by upgrading your magazines. Letting you increase the time you can keep the charge on gauss. Being able to reduce the spread of LB-Xs and SRMs (without Artemis). And many other things.

soapyfrog, on 15 March 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

There is no reason why skills can't be 10k per node, for example. It isn't free, but it is affordable for everyone. And then YOU will have MORE MONEY to spend on all that awesome new tech!!

The devs were thinking a whopping 0k per node, but if you want to pay for it go ahead.

[soapyfrog]

Athom83, on 15 March 2017 - 08:05 PM, said:

Not as much as the costs of purchasing an additional 2 mechs + loadouts + modules to fill in those mechs.

You would never buy modules for every mech, so the higher cost of the new system would catch up to you before long; and as i pointed out the old system actually left more disposable income in the hands of the player, so they could make that choice sooner or later if they wanted. The new system really punishes you for not having a lot of skills unlocked by nerfing unskilled mechs heavily in the agility department and for many mechs the removal or quirks further widens the gulf and makes unskilled mechs more painful to play.

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There was a lot of new stuff in the new skill tree. Being able to upgrade your survivability (in some cases it would take 300+ damage to take out a heavy or 400+ to destroy an assault). Being able to fit 6 consumables, with multiples of a single type as well. Being able to have the affects of more than 2 mech modules. Being able to increase your shots per ton by upgrading your magazines. Letting you increase the time you can keep the charge on gauss. Being able to reduce the spread of LB-Xs and SRMs (without Artemis). And many other things.

When ALL mechs can increase survivability like that then this is just a further penalty on pilots just starting out who haven't got that extra toughness yet.

The extra consumable thing is probably the single worst thing they added to the skill tree. You used to have to have at least some decision to make as to which consumables to bring, now for the cost of 1 skill point you don't have to choose at all... and it's yet another indirect nerf on earnings.

Extra ammo per ton? Extra Gauss charge time? Sure. Nice little bonuses. Reduced spread just replaces quirks mechs used to have, so not new.

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The devs were thinking a whopping 0k per node, but if you want to pay for it go ahead.

Do you have a source for that? Would be absolutely fine if true and the best case scenario, but I haven't seen anything about them wanting to make nodes free.

Edited by soapyfrog, 16 March 2017 - 02:59 AM.

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

Not going to touch the is it good or bad topic with a ten foot burning pole.

But as far as business practice goes, do not promise people something that you then do not deliver.
There is always a low in activity before a big content patch, those players have no reason to come back now.
This in turn makes the rest of us wait all night for ghost drops, so we look for other things to do, further diminishing an ever smaller population.

[Athom83]

soapyfrog, on 16 March 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

When ALL mechs can increase survivability like that then this is just a further penalty on pilots just starting out who haven't got that extra toughness yet.

Easiest way to solve that is to give trial mechs some selected nodes.

soapyfrog, on 16 March 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

The extra consumable thing is probably the single worst thing they added to the skill tree. You used to have to have at least some decision to make as to which consumables to bring, now for the cost of 1 skill point you don't have to choose at all... and it's yet another indirect nerf on earnings.

How so? You have the dicisition to go with, 1 CS + 1 UAV + 1 ARTY, or you can go 2 CS + 1 UAV, or 2 UAV +1 CS, or 2 UAV +2 ARTY + 2 AIR, et cetera. IN the current system it is flavors of "Do I want to use C-bill Coolshot or Premium?" "Do I want UAV or ARTY?". Its the same exact thing but you can only take less. They also made it so you get a greater effect from those modules at the cost of the current system's lower priced ones.

soapyfrog, on 16 March 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

Extra ammo per ton? Extra Gauss charge time? Sure. Nice little bonuses. Reduced spread just replaces quirks mechs used to have, so not new.

But with the removal of all quirks, which a large chunk of the community is asking for, will you still have those quirks? Also, you can get those spread skills for ALL mechs instead of the one or two variants per weight-class.

soapyfrog, on 16 March 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

Do you have a source for that? Would be absolutely fine if true and the best case scenario, but I haven't seen anything about them wanting to make nodes free.

I remember reading a news post stating that their original intention was to have the nodes cost XP only but they added a C-Bill cost to balance out the mass flooding of accounts with the module refunds. But for some reason I can't seem to find it.

[soapyfrog]

Athom83, on 16 March 2017 - 04:29 AM, said:

Its the same exact thing but you can only take less. They also made it so you get a greater effect from those modules at the cost of the current system's lower priced ones.

There are already too many consumables, and you want to add more and make them more powerful? Pass!

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But with the removal of all quirks, which a large chunk of the community is asking for, will you still have those quirks? Also, you can get those spread skills for ALL mechs instead of the one or two variants per weight-class.

"large chunk"? Doubtful. Many mechs are only viable because of quirks. If you remove them and basically give all mechs the same set of quirks, the best mechs become better and the worst mechs that survived on quirks take a big hit.

[Jubblator]

But the thing here is that the mechs on the pts DID NOT get the same bonuses to for example structure. So you had the same nodes but the nodes provided different amounts of bonuses, clans got overall less armor bonuses for instance.

Im all in favor of them removing the static quirks they have and allowing me to choose whether i want them, using the skill the nodes.
I hate being locked into PPC quirks for instance.

Why on earth do you think all nodes on all mechs need to give the exact same bonuses, when they are mech specific?

Edited by Jubblator, 16 March 2017 - 06:14 AM.

[soapyfrog]

Jubblator, on 16 March 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

Why on earth do you think all nodes on all mechs need to give the exact same bonuses, when they are mech specific?

Because that's how it was on the PTS (marginally different for clan mechs) and PGI explicitly said they wouldn't be doing mech specific values.

[Jubblator]

soapyfrog, on 16 March 2017 - 06:19 AM, said:

Because that's how it was on the PTS (marginally different for clan mechs) and PGI explicitly said they wouldn't be doing mech specific values.

Fair enough, but its not like that couldnt change. Also they were talking about keeping structure quirks for instance, as is. The system for it would be there.

Edited by Jubblator, 16 March 2017 - 02:22 PM.

[Taxxian]

Well the Skill Tree was not perfect, and it got killed... thats the fact we can not change anymore...

PGI can now simply implement Solamas (+ 1 "h" somewhere^^) tree together with Kanajashis refund method and all shall be happy...

I hope they do that extremely soon!