23 replies to this topic

[G4LV4TR0N]

I am wondering which mech is considered as overall better machine. I am looking for some fast/agile mech with nice torso turn rate. So for me Gargoyle looks better in theory because it's faster and has better mobility stats but Executioner has MASC that from what I know could be used for turning making it possibly good light mech killer. Is that so? Which of those two has better hitboxes?

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

G4LV4TR0N, on 14 March 2017 - 04:52 AM, said:

Which of those two has better hitboxes?

Executioner is slightly better imho. Plus it has better shieldarms. Exe is not fast enough to hunt any lights. Gargoyle barely. Maybe the Linebacker is the Mech you are looking for?

If you play Quickplay, go with the Exe, if you play CW, take the Gargle.

[G4LV4TR0N]

It's not for hunting lights, it's for being able to defend against them well. I've found that torso twist is the key.

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

G4LV4TR0N, on 14 March 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

It's not for hunting lights, it's for being able to defend against them well. I've found that torso twist is the key.

That thing you are looking for is called "positioning"

Seriously, if you play as an assault and you get hunted down by a single light, this is something, no other mech could fix. The game is working as intended at this point.

[G4LV4TR0N]

I see that Gargoyle has nice quirks while Executioner does not. Any take on this? Also the awesome IS LRM quirk on Gargoyle that does not work with Clan LRM's!!!

[Jingseng]

they are both ugly as sin.

Sorry what was the question?

Masc, as far as mobility goes, wins. It also has crapjets. MASC works in reverse too, worth pointing out.

[G4LV4TR0N]

I'd like to heard from someone who owns both mechs actually. Like how does Executioner MASC torso twist(shielding) compare to Gargoyle twist speed. Are those few Jump Jets useful or a waste? Which mech feels more mobile/better for pushing and brawling etc? Executioner has much more armor but Gargoyle gets Structure quirks that basically neglect all Executioner extra armor advantage.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

G4LV4TR0N, on 14 March 2017 - 04:52 AM, said:

I am wondering which mech is considered as overall better machine. I am looking for some fast/agile mech with nice torso turn rate. So for me Gargoyle looks better in theory because it's faster and has better mobility stats but Executioner has MASC that from what I know could be used for turning making it possibly good light mech killer. Is that so? Which of those two has better hitboxes?

If fast and agile is the dealbreaker for you, go gargoyle.
Although, unlike the executioner, it feels and plays like a clan heavy. Sorta like a humanoid timberwolf with low slung hardpoints. They are squishy but can twist a bit of incoming fire away, pinpoint damage is rough on them tho, only 80 tons worth of armor, 5 tons away from a timberwolf but 15 tons away from an executioner.

They are great for coordinated push maneuvers where you flank or push as a team (that's why they're recommended for FP) not so great if they stand on their own.
Personally, i like them best with a lot of small or small pulse lasers, like a 80 ton nova.

You probably want the prime or D variant for the 1/2 energy hardpoints on the CT.


Executioners on the other hand play a lot more like traditional assaults, barely 70 kph, but with mash for fast turns, backing off back into cover, they have 25% more tonnage for weapons/equipment. Tho, that doesn't mean much since the gargoyle only has 20 tons anyway. Executioner have 4 locked jumpjets which plays nicely as a fat jumpsniper with gauss+ppc builds.

In a nutshell, both, the gargoyle and executioner are bottom tier of clan assaults and kinda niche mechs.
Can't beat the current kings Marauder IIC and Kodiak, can't do something heavies can't do. Limited tonnage (executioner with 4 ton masc and 8 (!) tons of jumpjets + high engine and locked heatsinks and gargoyle with xl400 (60 ton weight) with locked heatsinks (6 tons) on a 80 ton mech.
I definitely would rank the warhawk and highlander IIC higher too.
Supernova probably too.

Gargoyle
+ heavy gameplay
+ fast / agile
+ small laser boatable
- only 20 tons spare
- little armor
- low limited hardpoints
- no jumpjets

Executioner
+ 95 tons
+ shieldarms
+ masc
+ jumpjets
+ nice hardpoint locations (ballistic arm, Sidetorso hardpoints)
- hardwired masc and jumpjets
- big, segemented torso


Add: btw you can downarmor the arms of an executioner by putting your weapons in the sidetorsos (or just one arm) and squeeze out a bit more tonnage to play with, something the gargoyle can't really do thanks to his blank sidetorsos.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 14 March 2017 - 07:40 AM.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Thanks for reply, I'm starting to lean towards Executioner because of MASC. I've just read that it allows you to jump bit further and that while activated, Executioner will turn/accel/deaccel/twist faster than Gargoyle. Any takes on how MASC is actually effective?

[B L O O D W I T C H]

G4LV4TR0N, on 14 March 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

Thanks for reply, I'm starting to lean towards Executioner because of MASC. I've just read that it allows you to jump bit further and that while activated, Executioner will turn/accel/deaccel/twist faster than Gargoyle. Any takes on how MASC is actually effective?

You can use masc to temporarily boost your movespeed, you get crosshair shake as if you would use jumpjets while you use masc, tho. Unless point blank, using your weapons and masc together is a nono.
It has it's own cooldown bar which fills up quite fast if in use and will slowly cool down if not used (you can test it out with the trial shadowcat) pretty similar to heatcap, just only for masc.
Use it too hard and you will damage your legs quite fast, so usage depending on situation and in moderation is a must.

Best would be to use it to quickly relocate, get out of cover faster, take your shoot(s) and use masc again to get back into cover again.

Btw, Exe with activates masc is a tard slower then a gargoyle still, 15 tons extra and a lower engine rating taking their toll.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 14 March 2017 - 08:16 AM.

[Luscious Dan]

Gargles and Sexecutioner can both work OK, in large part due to the ability to boat smalls/mediums in the arms.

That said, I also like the gauss/PPC Executioner, you're useless if you lose your right torso but if you play a bit cagey you can do some work in QP. Dual UAC5 in the RT plus some lasers in the arms is also fine. It runs fairly cool so you can keep pressure on an overheated target (that's how I run that variant, try to use the MASC/JJ mobility to pick on anyone running hot from engaging teammates).

Overall the MAD-IIC is definitely better than either, but they're far from useless.

[G4LV4TR0N]

I've tried MASC on Shadow Cat and it felt like a failure. But I've heard it's much better on Executioner. I feel sad that you can't test Clan mechs in Academy like you can IS ones. As for some Gauss/PPC builds on Executioner, it sounds like some cheap Night Gyr version that weights more. Gargoyle brawler/skirmisher on the other hand seems pretty viable due to speed and nice mounts but also few funny quirks. I liked Executioner for extra Armor and Structure just to realize that Gargoyle quirks nearly balance them out. I wonder which one would win direct 1v1 brawl.

[Widowmaker1981]

No contest, Executioner hands down. Gargoyle has one half decent build which is mass SPL/SLs but Executioner is more agile (MASC), jumps reasonably well for a 95 ton mech, is just as fast in bursts, is tougher, has some ST hardpoints and has a good deal more free tonnage.

Executioner is an overweight Timberwolf with MASC
Gargoyle is an overweight nova that cant jump.

G4LV4TR0N, on 14 March 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

I've tried MASC on Shadow Cat and it felt like a failure. But I've heard it's much better on Executioner. I feel sad that you can't test Clan mechs in Academy like you can IS ones. As for some Gauss/PPC builds on Executioner, it sounds like some cheap Night Gyr version that weights more. Gargoyle brawler/skirmisher on the other hand seems pretty viable due to speed and nice mounts but also few funny quirks. I liked Executioner for extra Armor and Structure just to realize that Gargoyle quirks nearly balance them out. I wonder which one would win direct 1v1 brawl.

MASC on the Shadow Cat is amazing, wouldnt trade it for anything. The ability to be at full speed the instant you land from a jump is incredible, and if you need to pull a 180 it turns amazingly

[Jay Leon Hart]

I'll throw my hat in for the Executioner, too.

I could never find a build for the Gargoyle that I liked - 6x MPL was about as good as I ever performed in one, and that was still rather abysmal.

The Executioner, with near-max armour, has 2 more tons of pod space than a Stormcrow. So if you're okay with a slower, taller Stormcrow, with JJs, MASC and more armour, you'll be okay in an Executioner. The torso mounts are decently high, so it can be built for hill poking and/or pop tarting if you really want to. I really hope the Hero adds a 2B or 1B 1E or even 2E Left Torso. I need my symmetry!

[G4LV4TR0N]

I am more interested in skirmisher/brawler mech that could be used for pushing. Probably med/short combo. As I said I liked EXE much more until I found that MASC turn bonus is just barely better than what GAR gets from engine and also GAR Structure/Armor quirks nearly balance out EXE extra armor. Unsure which one has better hitboxes and shielding arms.

Anyhow I wonder, I've heard that PTS has split mech agility from engine, ain't that super harsh for 400XL Gargoyle?

[Jay Leon Hart]

If it helps, my best performing EXE build is UAC20 + 6x SPL - all arm mounted. It even got me my best damage game (by quite a margin, too!) I found the combo of JJs and MASC really help you to twist and spread / avoid damage in a brawl, despite your gargantuan frame.

[Leone]

So, I've just managed to basic my executioners and I gotta say, I'm not a huge fan. I prefer my 'Goyles. If you plan on pushing in the 'Goyle has the better mobility to charge an twist. oddly enough though, I think the Exe may have better arms for shielding. Thing is, both of em have all their weapons in their arms, so I prefer the 'Goyle spread capacity.

~Leone.

[SuperFunkTron]

First, I'd like to say I'm happy to see people taking interest in some of the most undervalued clan assault chassis. I would say its worth trying both. I have both mechs but I find myself using the Gargoyle much, much more often. In FP, the lower eight of the Gargoyle makes it much easier to take along.

In terms of game play, the gargoyle is very much a pack animal and runs really well with the heavies. Its mobility is its strength and despite its relatively low weight for weapons, it can put out surprisingly high amounts of damage when played correctly.

The Executioner plays somewhere between a heavy and an assualt. It has the same issue as the gargoyle in terms of less weight available to weapons, but it also gains more durability with those extra 15 tons. The MASC lets you poke very effectively, but it is also a massive mech in terms of size and thus a much easier target to hit.

Admittedly, you've got me curious about the executioner again and I'll be taking a look at it the next time I play.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

G4LV4TR0N, on 14 March 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

I am more interested in skirmisher/brawler mech that could be used for pushing. Probably med/short combo.

Honestly? Linebacker is what you're looking for. (or even possible viper)

G4LV4TR0N, on 14 March 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

As I said I liked EXE much more until I found that MASC turn bonus is just barely better than what GAR gets from engine and also GAR Structure/Armor quirks nearly balance out EXE extra armor. Unsure which one has better hitboxes and shielding arms.

Exe got better shieldarms, tho, also an easy to hit CT and if you're up against folks who know how to aim they will saw your CT out.

Garg just melts when focused, quirks don't help. It's a team push/flank mech since it can keep up with clan meds and heavies.

G4LV4TR0N, on 14 March 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

Anyhow I wonder, I've heard that PTS has split mech agility from engine, ain't that super harsh for 400XL Gargoyle?

It was still okay in terms of agility, sorta like a TBR. But even on current server, if you get caught while flanking in a garg, you will melt.

Then again, it is an assault which can outpace most IS heavies so getting it in position is key. Once you comitted in a garg there is hardly a retread, it's a make it or break it thingy.

Much unlike the exe who's more of a tradewinner peek-a-boo playstyle mech.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 14 March 2017 - 10:59 AM.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Quote

Honestly? Linebacker is what you're looking for. (or even possible viper)

Oh yes, Linebackers are definitely on my list of interest but I wanted to try something with more armor as I already have quite mobile Summoner. I find Summoner very fun but it lacks hardpoints while both Executioner and Gargoyle have those missing hardpoints and armor.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 14 March 2017 - 07:16 PM.