676 replies to this topic

[Oberost]

KHAN ATTAKHAN, on 17 March 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

I'm not hijacking this but here's another example of the bias towards the Inner Sphere, LORE is not being followed in this game but some of it is so that's good BUT,
After over 20 years of following the books and games the only thing this game has in common with MechWarrior is the name.
Mechs not delivered to the clan in the appropriate time line, clan weapons nerfed so much I could throw butter and do more damage, Clans forced to fight in 4 man lances not 5 man stars, now with the release of this pack another joke has been presented to us.

I know for a fact that the clans had superior mechs and weapons, the clans invaded the inner sphere but it is a different game.

Clans are the galaxy clown-shoes, Armour thinner than cheap lingerie, weapons that when fired make noise like a 1960's tin toy gun but not harmful in any way, restricted in star (lance) size against far superior opponents it's like watching sheep at the slaughterhouse.

C'mon PGI, I know your so one eyed towards the Inner Sphere that run in circles, that's why your always right and never go left but surely with todays level of tech and some imagination you could at least give us our 15 man drop in the clans, even the odds a bit, I have nearly $4000 invested in this game, I've shown you loyalty how's about something in return.

So much fail in that post...

How can someone said something like that despite all the evidence that suggests the opposite? And this guy even wants some kind of asymmetric balance... giving the Clans more mechs than the IS!!!

..................................

[Oberost]

Mcgral18, on 17 March 2017 - 04:14 AM, said:

Oh no. It's a Clam apologist who wants OP AF Clams and ROFLstomp the powerless Spheroid Surats

Do you know why I prefer Clams? Because they're more powerful
Do you know why the majority of a Comp drop deck is Clam? Because they have better robots


To say otherwise is to balance by Potato and Munchkin
You don't balance by Potato

But if the Potato has spent near $4000 he deserves to be treated better than the rest, right?

Right???

Edited by Oberost, 17 March 2017 - 04:28 AM.

[Weepy Wanebow]

The clans were only definitively superior during the clan invasion era. The civil war era is when The Inner sphere released a lot of new and different technology to help compensate for the superiority of the clans. Things stopped being so one sided with the clans but most of the IS options released with some exceptions were inferior or specialized options. Clans have always had less but superior multipurpose apex weapons. By the Jihad, new tech on both sides was near even when released and mixed tech was far more common. By a decade or so into the early republic era, mixed tech was pretty much the norm and was actually mixed tech by design. Everyone used it (clans, IS....didn't matter.)

The balancing factor in the table top as that basically in BV (stands for battle value and is how you "balance" forces against each other) 10 clan clan mechs (heavy, mediums, and lights primarily with maybe one or two assaults) was equal to 12 IS mechs (normally assaults, heavies, and mediums with maybe one or two really good lights) and that was only if every pilot on the field was equally skilled.

In MWO it isn't 10c v 12is. Also they nerfed a bunch of clan stuff so at his point, 9 out of 10 times an IS 12 man of decent skill would beat the crap out of a clan 10 man with roughly the same skill level (perhaps even decently better clan pilots). If they want to use the same balancing factor that lore and TT used then they are going to have to eliminate some of the clan nerfs. I literally don't see them ever making it 10c v 12is though....and since PGI and a bunch of fans/players seems super opposed to mix tech mechs it is going to depend on how much the extra options on the IS side actually give them an unfair advantage/level the playing field.

At the very least, getting all of the same stuff is going to be good because it'll help balance out what exist that both sides have in common. I don't think it breaks balance for the clans to have longer range, less heat, slightly more damage on some weapons but there has to be a trade off like more spread, slower cool down, longer burn time, slightly lower ghost heat threshold....IDK, it will be interesting to see how it changes the game and what changes are made to balance everything out.

If anything it will change the meta of the game to a degree that we will see an increase in clan brawl and knife fighters....and the rise of weird clan multipurpose missile boats (can't say all purpose because ATMs can't indirect fire like LRMS). I don't see ay of the options really changing anything that much though. Definitely not for quick play were Dakka and PPC Gauss happen all the time anyway.....you just may see some IS mechs doing that to a degree now...

Edited by Wendigo Waltz, 17 March 2017 - 04:47 AM.

[MovinTarget]

KHAN ATTAKHAN, on 17 March 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

I'm not hijacking this but here's another example of the bias towards the Inner Sphere, LORE is not being followed in this game but some of it is so that's good BUT,
After over 20 years of following the books and games the only thing this game has in common with MechWarrior is the name.
Mechs not delivered to the clan in the appropriate time line, clan weapons nerfed so much I could throw butter and do more damage, Clans forced to fight in 4 man lances not 5 man stars, now with the release of this pack another joke has been presented to us.

I know for a fact that the clans had superior mechs and weapons, the clans invaded the inner sphere but it is a different game.

Clans are the galaxy clown-shoes, Armour thinner than cheap lingerie, weapons that when fired make noise like a 1960's tin toy gun but not harmful in any way, restricted in star (lance) size against far superior opponents it's like watching sheep at the slaughterhouse.

C'mon PGI, I know your so one eyed towards the Inner Sphere that run in circles, that's why your always right and never go left but surely with todays level of tech and some imagination you could at least give us our 15 man drop in the clans, even the odds a bit, I have nearly $4000 invested in this game, I've shown you loyalty how's about something in return.

I'm sorry but I am tired of people treating mwo like it's the only apocryphal BT content out there. It's not and there's tons of things that exist, continue to exist (i.e. not redacted into oblivion), including books, games, even some fringe TROs if I'm not mistaken.

Lore-purists are going to have to check their privilege just like fans of FPS with big stompy robots... no one gets everything they want, we all get a hybrid game.

I've asked for examples in the past of a FPS BT game that is true to lore, construction rules, and has a balanced Clan vs IS FPS element...

...I'm still waiting...

Why? Because you can't take a TT game based on ~10 second turns and turn it into an FPS without filling in some blanks never addressed in TT.

Which RTS BT PvP content out there ever encouraged/enforced clan rules of engagements? How was this done?

<crickets chirp>

So please, acknowledge that unless you are playing as friends with agreements and understandings and rules judges it is rather unrealistic to expect Lore to be an absolute in an RTS.

[Midnight Wyvern]

I'm interested to see how all these changes play out. This update will probably bring me back to the game.

I know everyone loves joking about "Clanner Tears" right now, but from my perspective when I was playing with DERP, the difference was pretty stark.

We could play as Clans against IS and win without issue, but it took some effort and coordination, which was fun.

When we played IS we usually only fought IS because fighting Clans felt dirty for a while there. We could basically just walk into them and facetank all their damage while ripping them to pieces.

Now, about midway through last year was the last time I played, so that could have changed drastically since then with the balancing updates they've done. Regardless, I'm excited to see my beloved Uziel coming into the game (HYPE) and also my beloved RACs.

[TheLuc]

Ladies and Gents, the game was off lore as soon some one had that superb idea of turning it into a E -Spurt. That said, this game will remain what is been forever, a arena shooter with a Battletech skin over it.

Want lore, wait for HBS Battletech, if you want a FPS experience with the upcoming of MW5 that remains to be done as it will be still Mr.Bullocks game`s so in the mean time MWO is what we got. Maybe in 20 years like Holywood runs out of ideas we gonna get a true Mechwarrior experience.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

You suckers.

This isn't going to change the fact we have a handful of maps.

MORE MAPS NOW!

Damn sheep.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

KHAN ATTAKHAN, on 17 March 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

After over 20 years of following the books and games the only thing this game has in common with MechWarrior is the name.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

TheLuc, on 17 March 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

Ladies and Gents, the game was off lore as soon some one had that superb idea of turning it into a E -Spurt. That said, this game will remain what is been forever, a arena shooter with a Battletech skin over it.

Mech-Assault is an arena shooter with a battletech skin over it. MWO makes plenty of sacrifices to the lore God. Stop being so salty that it isn't a monotheist, some things have to be different.

[MovinTarget]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 17 March 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

Mech-Assault is an arena shooter with a battletech skin over it. MWO makes plenty of sacrifices to the lore God. Stop being so salty that it isn't a monotheist, some things have to be different.

It's easy for these guys to sit on the side and poke holes, yet if it were so intuitive and easy to make a game that incorporated TT rules and Lore...

WHY HAS THIS GAME NEVER BEEN CREATED?

I only recall MW3 & 4 (with their expansions and MekTek add ons) but both of them had funky construction rules and PvP that defied lore and TT (NHUA anyone?)... The big difference is that they had a PvE component that did give you some lore... Not the PvP.

So please, tell me I'm wrong and PGI needs to look at <insert MW Game Title Here> as clear evidence that a pure translation, free of apocryphal interpretation, from TT can be created for PvP play.

Until you can prove it has/can be done please stop assuming it should have been done.

Edited by MovinTarget, 17 March 2017 - 08:11 AM.

[MacKJames]

Maybe they need to drop the lore balance and make the game have 1 to 1 balance, or a least for Quick Drop. Let both sides use all tech. Then leave the lore to the Campaign and Faction Warfare.

I'd prefer to have more toys to play with for my clan mechs. But whatever I'll wait and see how this new tech pans out before I make another purchase. I'll be interested to see how heavy lasers turn out. OP, or to hot with a super long burn time to be worth anything.

[Angel Devereaux]

Does this mean we can expect a rollback of some of the more extreme nerfs to clan weapons?

[Aramuside]

Angel Devereaux, on 17 March 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Does this mean we can expect a rollback of some of the more extreme nerfs to clan weapons?

Curious as to which particular ones you think should be rolled back.

[Angel Devereaux]

Aramuside, on 17 March 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

Curious as to which particular ones you think should be rolled back.

Ghost heat on lasers that the IS does not have a comparable match to when the patch releases, UAC Jam chance and my pipe dream would be to allow clans to remove jump jets from Omnimechs again.

[MovinTarget]

Angel Devereaux, on 17 March 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Does this mean we can expect a rollback of some of the more extreme nerfs to clan weapons?

Probably some of the beam lengths could be reduced a little more, but not sure which other ones since I imagine the IS equivalents will retain similar limitations...

[cougurt]

Angel Devereaux, on 17 March 2017 - 11:23 AM, said:

Ghost heat on lasers that the IS does not have a comparable match to when the patch releases, UAC Jam chance and my pipe dream would be to allow clans to remove jump jets from Omnimechs again.

ghost heat only exists to keep very high damage alpha strikes in check. clan and IS both have comparable damage thresholds for ghost heat. i wouldn't necessarily be against un-nerfing some aspects of clan tech, but we'll have to see what kind of an impact all of this new stuff has first.

[Arkhangel]

@Cou: RACs likely won't get Ghost Heat simply for the fact taking more than (or even) two would overheat you PDQ anyways.

They'll probably be great for mechs with single Ballistic Hardpoints though.

MRMs'll definitely get some Ghost Heat, at least for the larger launchers, though being unguided, avoiding them isn't going to be hard either, given, you know, actually moving works for that.

actually, looking at the new IS Tech in general, a lot of it would be countered by actually moving.

If you're standing still, or running right at something mounting a RAC or two, or an MRM 40, you kinda deserve the massive amount of pain headed your way.

Also, bear in mind while they did say "indefinite" on the skill tree, I firmly believe it's still gonna be out before this stuff is, assuming we don't have that very vocal 200 players ruin it for the over 20000 other of us again.

Edited by Arkhangel, 17 March 2017 - 03:10 PM.

[TKG]

Here is my buck-fifty* on this topic. I for one am glad to see the IS gets more weapons which in general while less efficient then their clan-made comparisons on average allow IS players to round out their designs a little better. Also, I also have to say I've been waiting for other streak SRM sizes for the longest time so definitely glad to see that. I am not at all thrilled about the civil war mechs mostly because for the IS I would have preferred seeing IS Omni mechs such as the Firestarter omni, Blackjack omni or the Blackhawk KU, hell even the Sunder, Rakshasa or Avatar would have been welcome. What I don't precisely get is why all these clan folks are having a fit over weapons that ultimately wont really close the gap completely between clan and IS tech. It's comments like the one below that make little sense in any plausible context.

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

clan players get bored of not having new tech too. all your logic accomplishes is forcing clan players to quit in droves because they didnt get anything new worth using. clans shouldnt be punished because paul is bad at balancing.

All I have to say to this is "When are you leaving?". I say that not to be antagonistic but to seriously look at this sort of passive-aggressive threat; which is the in-game equivalent to when someone claims their going to hold their breath until they die or they get what they want. It never works, and in the end it only makes you look bad. Honestly if anyone quits MWO forever over a bunch of weapons for the IS then maybe they weren't that serious about playing the game and having fun in the first place. The new civil war patch isn't the end of the franchise or the ruination of game balance, it's what a lot of players were asking about for a long while, besides, all you clanners out there have something to look forward to...your next totem mech is probably going to be the Mandrill or something.

*The level of salt in this thread requires more than two-cents.

[Arkhangel]

@TKG: the Rakshasa isn't an Omni, but it would be nice to see regardless, given it's the IS Timber Wolf.

Also, you forgot the Raptor, which was the first IS Omni, and a fairly solid light, too.

[Khobai]

Quote

They have the damage and range profiles of Inner Sphere standard lasers, except for 1 less heat for the medium, 2 less heat for the large.

There is literally no reason to ever use them on a Mech over Clan ER Lasers, as they are truly complete garbage.

Compare the Chemical Large to a Clan ER Medium:
8 vs 7 damage
6 vs 5 heat
5 vs 1 tons (not including ammo for Chemical Laser)
2 vs 1 slots (not including ammo for Chemical Laser)
15 vs 15 hex range

And Chemical Medium to a Clan ER Small:
5 vs 5 damage
2 vs 2 heat
1 vs 0.5 tons (not including ammo for Chemical Laser)
1 vs 1 slots (not including ammo for Chemical Laser)
9 vs 6 hex range

blah blah blah

you realize PGI has changed canon stat values on weapons before right?

obviously it wouldnt work with stock values. chemical laser could easily be made to work with some adjustments though

dont be so close minded.

Quote

All I have to say to this is "When are you leaving?".

did I ever say I was leaving? no i didnt. so dont make that assumption. it just makes you look like a !@#4

I just said there was no reason to continue play clan if they get nothing new worth using. Ill switch to IS.

I never threatened to leave if I dont get my way. I simply said playing clan wont hold my interest anymore if they get dont get their fair share of new tech.

Edited by Khobai, 17 March 2017 - 07:09 PM.