156 replies to this topic

[Snazzy Dragon]

Sumdumbum, on 15 March 2017 - 01:12 AM, said:

Im just sad clan doesnt get MRMs.

They never had them to begin with

[I_AM_ZUUL]

/quote]

Hades Trooper, on 15 March 2017 - 01:53 AM, said:

what drugs are you on? to mount 2 ultra 20's is has almost no ammo small engine and heat up like a ************ such ill informed pilots

Hades Trooper, on 15 March 2017 - 01:53 AM, said:

what drugs are you on? to mount 2 ultra 20's is has almost no ammo small engine and heat up like a ************ such ill informed pilots

it has sufficient ammo and armor... such crappy pilots unable to manage their heat & Hunchies are supposed to be slow, they are a pocket Heavy and should be played as such.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hoss Chimp, on 14 March 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

First, I am not accusing PGI of having an agenda against the clan mechs. I said that I wish they had distributed more to the clan mechs. They clearly did not. I am also not referring to the weapons that will make them even (though the inner sphere ultras will be beast mode). I am referring to the MRM (MRM10/20/30/40????? ... Really?), the stealth armor, the different kinds of PPCs, the rocket launcher consumable, light and heavy gauss, and those awesome looking rotary autocannons.

The heavy lasers will be really nice if the clan mechs don't run as hot as they already do, and the ATM can POTENTIALLY replace the MRM range wise, but not in terms of volume of damage. But heavy gauss is gonna be crazy, and light gauss is going to be huge. The micropulse lasers will have a very niche role, and I don't see that being very beneficial on a wide scale.

To recap:

They are getting all the same stuff the clans already have (awesome). that makes them even when you include the new engine.

Items:

IS:

• 2 new armor types
  
• killer MRM
  
• brutal Rotary autocannons
  
• 2 superior gauss rifles.
  
• 2 new kinds of armor, one of them stealth
  
• And some killer PPC models
  
• consumable 10/15/20 rocket pack

clans:

• awesome Heavy lasers
  
• micro lasers
  
• sliding scale dmg atm 3/6/9/12

I don't disagree with the IS getting more stuff. I disagree with how much more they are getting in terms of really powerful and quality items. I think that with the items that are being distributed, that you will have the same imbalance in reverse

1) we do not know if IS UACs will be "beast mode", because we don't know if they will be burst fire or not. If they are burst, they remain inferior to Clans.

2) MRMs. Could be good. Or niche. Or flat garbage. They weigh a crap ton. And we don't know how they will spread. Likelihood? Badly.

3) LFEs weigh 3/4 of STD, not half, like an XL, so no IS are not "now on par".

4) in fact, most equivalent weapons are still inferior. IS ER lasers? Weaker than clan, less range, same heat. Streaks? Twice the weight.

5) Only IS unique weapons, Like Rotary Cannons, Hvy Gauss, offer any real parity. Heavy PPCs are 4 tons heavier than clan PPCs. Snub Nose have crap for range.

So yeah, I'm still calling bullcrap.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hades Trooper, on 15 March 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

MRM's, ultra ac's that fire projectiles, the list goes on, if you think IS is weaker than Clan than you really don't understand balance.

Are the IS light engines going to suffer the same effects as clans do when there xl engines lose a side torso?

MRMs are massive, ammo hogs and we have no clue how badly they will spread, but by TT? BADLY.

Do you have confirmation IS UACs WILL be projectiles? I didn't get that memo. I highly doubt it.

Should LFEs suffer as much as Clan XLs? Hmmmmm.... One weights 3/4 STD, one weighs HALF. You tell me.

More fake news? Perhaps I'm not the one with remedial balancing issues here.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 15 March 2017 - 05:25 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I wouldn't be taking the HPPC on the LFE because I can't fit sufficient DHS to cool a pair of them on that engine

except a lighter engine means you can take a bigger rated engine

and a bigger rated engine means you can fit more internal DHS so I dont really know what youre talking about

again LFE is huge for IS. And clans should really get XXL to help balance it out.

Edited by Khobai, 15 March 2017 - 05:33 AM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Khobai, on 15 March 2017 - 05:31 AM, said:

except a lighter engine means you can take a bigger rated engine

and a bigger rated engine means you can fit more internal DHS so I dont really know what youre talking about

again LFE is huge for IS. And clans should really get XXL to help balance it out.

LFE does not replace the need for the XL engine, and in fact many competitive builds for IS will still utilize an XL because of the payload differences

As for the clans "needing" something to "balance" the game-- I question if you play the game at all

[Khobai]

Quote

LFE does not replace the need for the XL engine

it pretty much does

the difference between dying when losing a side torso and not dying when losing a side torso is huge enough that LFE will basically replace XL on most heavy/assaults. clan XL proved that.

Youll still see XL on lights and mediums but they wont be at the top of the power curve anyway. its LFE heavies/assaults that will be at the top of the power curve.

Edited by Khobai, 15 March 2017 - 05:42 AM.

[Ultimax]

Jingseng, on 14 March 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

Off topic, but i am a bit underwhelmed by the cougar and mk2. I mean, a slow light in the 35t range (rather than anything in the 20 range?)...meh. The mk2... those side torsos are going to be the first to go, everytime, and quickly. And that's half your loadout.

The uziel looks great, imo. Fast as hell 50 tonner with mobility. Good spread of hardpoints, including what looks like two high torso mounts. Might be a little light on the tonnage for loadouts, but not bad for a fast flanker 50.

The anni... i dunno. Slow as bawls. I can see how they tried to raise the arm hard points (gogo flapping turkey mech). The head too could be vulnerable in a cyclops sorta way, but more so as it is pretty much just sticking out there by itself. The torsos though seem pretty compact as hitboxes though.

Both the anni and mk2 have comparatively small torsos and huge shield arms. I think the mk2 might suffer from those high shoulder boxes though. It will depend on the final product i guess.

MC-IIC, don't use missiles and the hitboxes will be good (just like the TBR).

At worst it will be as good as the MAD-IIC, but I think it'll be even better.

[Khobai]

Quote

MC-IIC, don't use missiles and the hitboxes will be good (just like the TBR).

At worst it will be as good as the MAD-IIC, but I think it'll be even better.

with a release date of january 2018 seems pretty ridiculous even talking about it

[ice trey]

Tabletop rules, the IS gets way more toys to play with than the clans do, but that's because no matter how many toys they get, the clans are almost always invariably better at everything. Even the most advanced tech from even a hundred years after the first invasion is chump change compared to basic clantech.

The issue is, PGI decided that treating the clan invasion like the Battle of Stalingrad was badwrongfun, and tried to balance clantech against IS tech in 3050 1:1, rather than scaling the kills value or numbers. What this means is that while this stuff is pretty fair in Battletech, things are still up in the air for MWO. They've never balanced the tech we've already had, so this new stuff is bound to be the mentos to MWO's diet coke.

"Not worth it" I would think is over-reacting, but "give it a couple months and save your C-bills to see how things get sorted out"? That'd be a fair choice. Yesterday's garbage may be tomorrow's meta mech.

Edited by ice trey, 15 March 2017 - 05:50 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 15 March 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

with a release date of january 2018 seems pretty ridiculous even talking about it

January. 2018? The hell nonsense are you spouting this time?

[Khobai]

Quote

January. 2018? The hell nonsense are you spouting this time?

madcat mk2 release date is january 2018

learn to read faq

Edited by Khobai, 15 March 2017 - 06:14 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Hades Trooper, on 15 March 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

MRM's, ultra ac's that fire projectiles, the list goes on, if you think IS is weaker than Clan than you really don't understand balance.

Are the IS light engines going to suffer the same effects as clans do when there xl engines lose a side torso?

The sphere is objectively inferior to the Clams, with select few robots competing with solid quirks
Nothing Spheroid competes without quirks, but only a handful of the competitive Clams even have quirks
Fridge and Nova being examples.


LFE shouldn't have any penalty, but probably will

When is the FutureTech release anyhow?

Guess I should read the FAQ
I'll assume July with the Grabdeal

Edited by Mcgral18, 15 March 2017 - 06:19 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

CK16, on 14 March 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

Not try to say the Uziel will be amazing, however....The thing can pack on 8 JJ's and have a rather large engine....PPC poptart anyone? She won't be your up front brawler like the Griffin, Hunchback, and Centy. Or the good gun boat as the Bushwacker and Shadowhawk...The Uziel is the IS Shadowcat/Hunchback IIC.

Anni though, yea not sure what to think there.

Cougar, it will be just ok very middle of the pack but not to great though....

Mad Cat Mk II, is it any surprise it will be the best 90 tonner, and probably best PPC Gauss assault, yes IMO might be better than the KDK 3 at this game.

The Uziel won't be near as good as the HBK-IIC because while the hardpoints are mounted high, the cockpit is located at the bottom of the torso so it has to expose most of its torso to fire. If the missile rack and cockpit were switched, it would be a different story. As of now, the SHD-2K is probably much closer to as good as the HBK-IIC, but definitely not up to par.

The Anni... there might be some cool loadouts, but the geometry and cockpit location are awful.

The Cougar will have some niche uses as a light with the amount of podspace it has.

The Mad Cat Mk. II is easily the best in the pack, but remains to be seen whether or not it takes the Assault crown.

[NRP]

While the new mechs don't look that exciting, I am looking forward to the new weapons (especially on the IS side).

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 15 March 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

with a release date of january 2018 seems pretty ridiculous even talking about it

We were sick of skill tree debates, anyway.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 15 March 2017 - 06:14 AM, said:

madcat mk2 release date is january 2018

learn to read faq

Pre orders drop in July

[Gas Guzzler]

Hades Trooper, on 15 March 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

In what dream world are you living in?

the light Engine better work the same as clan XL engines do. lose a side torso and your not dead but it better suffer heat penalty and speed reduction otherwise it's biased against the clans as it would be losing 2 engine crits just like the clan engine does.

Are IS ultra ac's also going to be burst fire too? or we going to see IS ultra 20's needing to put 2 projectiles on target for 40 damage where is the clans have to put 8 on target.

With the new weapons and stuff for the IS i think we should talk about clan locked equipment. when are the clan engine sizes going to be unlocked as well as unlocking the following, jump jets, armour type, internal type, heatsinks, and secondary quipment such as active probs and such.

It's all nice to try and balance weapons to weapons but when clans suffer extra ghost heat, lower limits of weapons before ghost heat and pairing of weapons for example, clan smal and medium lasers being bundled together, clan lrms of all types being bundled together for ghost heat issues.

you can't just keep looking at this compared to this, you need to look at it as a whole when working on balance but thats something PGI doesn't understand.

All i can say is thank you PGI it's been some time i've been weighing up the value of buying clan mechs and being someone who loves his clans over IS this will be the final straw that breaks my wallet.

Not 1 cent more till they balance the game instead of being constantly biased towards IS.

Stopped reading at the LFE comparison that mysteriously didn't even mention the tonnage difference.

*Clan Apologist detected, will not stop whining until Clans are blatantly OP and IS players treat them as if they were balanced or slightly underpowered.*

[Khobai]

Quote

Stopped reading at the LFE comparison that mysteriously didn't even mention the tonnage difference.

but it likely wont have any penalties so LFE is still arguably better than Clan XL

clan players would gladly pay extra tonnage to not have penalties but arnt given that choice

[Duke Nedo]

Khobai, on 15 March 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

the difference between dying when losing a side torso and not dying when losing a side torso is huge enough that LFE will basically replace XL on most heavy/assaults. clan XL proved that.

Except that dying on ST destruction is not important at all when we are discussing heat penalties from cXL ST destruction... then it's barely an advantage to survive...