26 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

Funny, i see people complaining about how they hate the new tree, cause it's to expensive and i need to pay money to level what i have., most of which i'm sure you haven't dropped in in over a year, or even more. Blah, blah..


But new engine and tech, that doesn't seam to have a down side, will cost a boat load.. (far more than all those people said about spending on modules) But this is where people are happy??



I guess i'm the only one that thinks this is no good.. So now the hundreds of millions i and others spent on XL and STD engines are instantly obsolete? I was ok with having to grind out some more C-bills to finish off leveling mechs i rarely used as i would of easily had enough to level up my top 20 mechs. But this???..

But giant bill for new tech, unless this tech is balanced with old? I just became very unexcited about playing, and buying anything.. I wanted IS engines balanced.. I guess instead they found a better credit sink. Its the whole reason why i liked this game.. No tech power creep.. guess it wouldn't last.

Enjoy folks.. Kudos

Edited by JC Daxion, 14 March 2017 - 08:12 PM.

[Jingseng]

so i guess the solution you want proposed is no engine tech that IS players have been crying over pretty much since forever?

because we already saw how this argument plays out.

[Mcgral18]

LFEs are cheaper than XLs, so there's that


RIP STDs is what I hope I won't have to say
Balance Underling, plzbalance

[Amsro]

The complaint was about lost progress and the cbills to recover it more so then about spending cbills.

New tech is new for everyone, everyone will need to buy it. That is 100% balanced across the player base.

[Y E O N N E]

New tech is opt-in. Skill trees was not. Love it or hate it, the skill tree is not even comparable.

[Monkey Lover]

Well, i would have saved some of my module refund for them but now..... ya back to grinding i guess.

[Tarl Cabot]

ROFL... LFE is a bandaid w/staples. STD? /sad puppy and wrgaf? A damaged iXL should have had more in common with cXL but different penalty percentages. The iXL is the one engine that could have helped open the doors for some of the underperforming mechs, those with a few hardpoint for each weapoin types. The differences between those three IS engines should have been non-lethal penalties. The LFE would be for the mechs that need that one crit slots to fit specific components while saving some weight and possible speed when compared to STD. All three would have been able to still shield/sword, with the differences being the level of penalty - STD w/no penalties and able to survive the loss of both side torsos, the iXL with the heavier, non-lethal penalties with the LFE being between those two.

The new Skill Tree is simply delayed, not shelved but that the new tree allows all Clan mechs access to similar hardened armor/structural, aka quirks while IS is stuck w/glass cannon iXL and two lesser STD/LFE engines goes not provide any sort of parity between those foundations.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 15 March 2017 - 03:16 AM.

[Krasnopesky]

How about we just keep the game as is forever just in case someone is upset that their precious in-game currency has been rendered as wasted by new updates?

[Jingseng]

His (implied) point (i think), in fairness, is that engine upgrades cost a mechton of cbills, and cbills are gained through prem time/grinding. Which represents a time investment. Which was somehow the same argument used as people who had fewer modules? Certainly as people who had mechtons of mechs elited. Or something.

Anyhow, and yeah, as this engine tech is clearly superior (to standard) it will in many cases not actually be optional to remain competitive.

I mean, i get his implied argument. I'm not really for it; and even if it were totally good, at some point you got to bite the bullet... that's what tech advance in the real world does to you. But yeah, he's not totally without merit, but I think there's a LOT of anger and polarization going on right now on the forums, and people seem hell bent on screwing each other. Which, to me, is what this really looks like, rather than an attempt at framing a cogent debate.

[justcallme A S H]

LFE isn't a fix. It's a band aid thst only covers part of the wound.

The majority of mechs still need IS XL to be competitive and it's the XL thst then makes them uncompetitve.
LFE will work on some Assaults/Some Meds (although most are better with XL still), but for the most part every HVY is still gonna be XL, plus the lighter assaults.

LFE is VERY limiting based on 25% weight saving in what it's going to help, which is not much. Hence I doubt I'll see myself buying many at all. Maybe for Atlas and a KGC, about it.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 14 March 2017 - 08:46 PM.

[Jettrik Ryflix]

Well, both the Standard and XL engines will still have their place.

Standard engines will still technically be more tanky (no ST loss penalties), and needed for certain builds (example, 2LB10X Marauder).

isXL engines will still have more weight savings, at the expense of more ST slots and ST penalties (including insta-death).

So, neither of the old systems are obsolete. However, Inner Sphere will gladly take the benefits of the LFE to gain some parity with Clan builds. If this "power creep" was hidden behind a paywall, I would have issues with it. But it's available to everyone, and adds incentive to keep playing.

[NidAlak]

Not that I post much but I'm already logged in for something else so I'll add my 2 cents...

I run mostly IS personally, though I do enjoy many of the clans I have, and I would enjoy the new tech, but I will agree, it would make most sense to have it balanced or only SLIGHTLY better (or have drawbacks of course) to keep XL/Std from becoming almost totally obsolete... Otherwise there's not much point, as any IS pilot might as well sell every engine they have for the new ones, which wouldn't exactly be fun, especially for those with MANY more XL engines than I have...

Not saying this is a good example, but maybe give XLs back their agility buff (if the engine decoupling from agility goes through) and have LFE be a little worse weight-saving vs XL and also you can survive a side torso but don't gain the agility bonuses? So XL has most speed per ton, has turning bonuses, LFE has middle speed per ton, can survive a ST destruction, but no agility bonuses, and STD worst speed per ton, but maybe it can have some of the Twist bonuses to help with what it's already supposed to do?

Not saying that would be balanced, but it's an idea.

[Alan Davion]

Tarl Cabot, on 14 March 2017 - 08:40 PM, said:

ROFL... LFE is a bandaid w/staples. STD? /sad puppy and wrgaf? A damaged iXL should have had more in common with cXL but different penalty percentages. The iXL is the one engine that could have helped open the doors for some of the underperforming mechs, those with a few hardpoint typesThe differences between those three IS engines should have been non-lethal penalties. The LFE would be for the mechs that need that one crit slots to fit specific components while saving some weight and possible speed when compared to STD. All three would have been able to still shield/sword, with the differences being the level of penalty - STD w/no penalties and able to survive the loss of both side torsos, the iXL with the heavier, non-lethal penalties with the LFE being between those two.

The new Skill Tree is simply delayed, not shelved but that the new tree allows all Clan mechs access to similar hardened armor/structural, aka quirks while IS is stuck w/glass cannon iXL and two lesser STD/LFE engines goes not provide any sort of parity between those foundations.

justcallme A S H, on 14 March 2017 - 08:46 PM, said:

LFE isn't a fix. It's a band aid thst only covers part of the wound.

The majority of mechs still need IS XL to be competitive and it's the XL thst then makes them uncompetitve.
LFE will work on some Assaults/Some Meds (although most are better with XL still), but for the most part every HVY is still gonna be XL, plus the lighter assaults.

LFE is VERY limiting based on 25% weight saving in what it's going to help, which is not much. Hence I doubt I'll see myself buying many at all. Maybe for Atlas and a KGC, about it.

So what you guys are saying is, you're actually okay with the IS XL being made better than the Clan XL? Am I reading that right?

Cause as it stands right now you die when your engine has 3 crit spaces destroyed. IS XLs have 3 per side, and Clan XLs and IS LFEs have 2 per side.

If you make it so the IS XL survives a single side torso loss, you're making it so that it would require the loss of 4 crit slots, while your Clan XL and the new IS LFE would still require the previous 3 crit slots destroyed.

Yeah, that's totally not just throwing out the entire rule book MWO was built on.

[Tarl Cabot]

And do not forget that IS omnis. Most that are equipped w/iXL will not be able to change them out, meaning their opponents will not have to wonder if it has a STD, LFE or iXL... how well would such mechpacks really sale?

[El Bandito]

JC Daxion, on 14 March 2017 - 08:10 PM, said:

I guess instead they found a better credit sink. Its the whole reason why i liked this game.. No tech power creep.. guess it wouldn't last.

Where were you when the Clan invasion dropped? Money sink and tech power creep was at its maximum in 2014. Yet you, and the game lasted until now.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 March 2017 - 09:13 PM.

[Clownwarlord]

Jingseng, on 14 March 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

so i guess the solution you want proposed is no engine tech that IS players have been crying over pretty much since forever?

because we already saw how this argument plays out.

Yep just like energy draw, just like skill tree, new tech ... wont make it into game because of snowflakes. They do realize they can sell their own engines and at least get 50% back, but NO they have to have it all back. I wonder what these people do in real life ... they do realize if you buy a car and take it back the next day to sell it they wont give you the same amount back.

[DivineTomatoes]

The crybabys that got the skill tree removed are degenerates for a reason, their level of hypocrisy isn't anything to be surprised about.

We all know there's a really good chance that the new engines and weapons won't be released either because when it comes down to it PGI will always cave into their whining.

The whining has already begun over the light fusion engine.

Edited by Reaver2145, 14 March 2017 - 09:16 PM.

[King Kahuna]

Hi, I'm Bob..

I purchased a 1979 Ford Gremlin a bazillion years ago..... Why doesn't it get the same gas mileage as my Chevy Volt....
Wow did the slow bus just leave??????

[Tarl Cabot]

Alan Davion, on 14 March 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

So what you guys are saying is, you're actually okay with the IS XL being made better than the Clan XL? Am I reading that right?

Cause as it stands right now you die when your engine has 3 crit spaces destroyed. IS XLs have 3 per side, and Clan XLs and IS LFEs have 2 per side.

If you make it so the IS XL survives a single side torso loss, you're making it so that it would require the loss of 4 crit slots, while your Clan XL and the new IS LFE would still require the previous 3 crit slots destroyed.

Yeah, that's totally not just throwing out the entire rule book MWO was built on.

No, the mech does NOT die due to 3 engine crits. In MWO a mech w/iXL dies when one side torso is destroyed. And whatever crits that are rolled and hit an engine slot, it has no actual effect on the engine nor the mech, be it cXL, iXL or STD.

So by your train of thought, it is okay for cXL to survive until it has 4 engine crits destroyed? (see above, no actual engine crits).

And hits/misses from TT was done for EACH weapon with the 2*6 dice probability against gunnery skill, range from mech to target then short/med/long range weapon modifier. And since it was a TT game w/dice, FASA had no real reason to change that 3 engine crit rule. Again TABLE TOP w/dice. Even Solaris (2.5sec/turn) with its 3 weapon groups still rolled for each weapon hit, not for the weapon group (TIC).

There isn't any real, balanced gameplay reason for PGI to stick with the 3 engine crit rule in a FPS game, when using only part of the overlying TT setup. MWO has engine crits but those crits do absolutely nothing to the engine/mech. And even though I might take some small pleasure if there were actual engine crits, I do not believe PGI would do it justice and it would definitely lower overall TTK. Both sides would have dead mechs where not a single section was totally destroyed and players would actually have to move the front loaded armor to the backside.

And just a reminder...

Tarl Cabot, on 14 March 2017 - 09:09 PM, said:

And do not forget that IS omnis. Most that are equipped w/iXL will not be able to change them out, meaning their opponents will not have to wonder if it has a STD, LFE or iXL... how well would such mechpacks really sale?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 15 March 2017 - 03:18 AM.

[Alan Davion]

Reaver2145, on 14 March 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

The crybabys that got the skill tree removed are degenerates for a reason, their level of hypocrisy isn't anything to be surprised about.

We all know there's a really good chance that the new engines and weapons won't be released either because when it comes down to it PGI will always cave into their whining.

The whining has already begun over the light fusion engine.

What the hell is there to whine about over the LFE? The fact that the IS has a lighter engine that doesn't insta-kill you with the loss of a single side torso?

If that's what the Clan players are reduced to whining about then they're really losing ground fast.