101 replies to this topic

[Kmieciu]

Pariah Devalis, on 16 March 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

The damage per ton and crits on these things is insane.

Uhm... NO?
Rocket Launcher 15: 15 damage salvo for 1 ton 2 crits?
LOL.
I can have a C-SRM2 with half a ton of ammo instead. 100 damage per ton.

Edited by Kmieciu, 17 March 2017 - 12:06 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Duke Nedo, on 16 March 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

I like the idea of micros being laser MGs, that's a novel niche. The same mechanic wouldn't have to be restricted to short range weapons, would it?

I feel like all pulse lasers should be laser MGs, but I'm tuning my charts for what I think PGI ought to do under the current paradigm.

[FupDup]

Kmieciu, on 17 March 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

Uhm... NO?
Rocket Launcher 15: 15 damage salvo for 1 ton 2 crits?
LOL.
I can have a C-SRM2 with half a ton of ammo instead. 100 damage per ton.

You actually can't, because Rocket Launchers are IS while the CSRM2 is Clan. Mixtech is not a thing in MWO.

[Bud Crue]

Hey! PGI!
Give us some realistic math and soon PGI...its okay if you say the stats are just place holders and you are still testing, etc. But give us some idea (we know they are not going to be straight TT values) of what you're thinking and why on the new tech. Gets us thinking, gets us criticizing...might even get you to preemptively adjust stuff to prevent legacy tech. God forbid if you actively engage us too, it gets us excited to start buying. But I'm not even asking for the last part (its just a suggestion).

I just want to know if snub nosed PPCs will be a good idea on my Panthers. Or MRMs on a QuickDraw 4H, etc. So come on! Throw some numbers at us! Let us do more than just guess at this stuff. This thread and others like it are not just an academic exercise for us, it/they are a PR opportunity for you.

Edited by Bud Crue, 17 March 2017 - 03:52 AM.

[Kmieciu]

FupDup, on 17 March 2017 - 03:11 AM, said:

You actually can't, because Rocket Launchers are IS while the CSRM2 is Clan. Mixtech is not a thing in MWO.

I was talking in the context of balance. IS mech armed with Rocket Launchers will have no chance against a Clanner with SRMs. For example a Commando vs Mist Lynx if 6.
The whole "single shot" thing is useless in MWO.

Edited by Kmieciu, 17 March 2017 - 04:01 AM.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 16 March 2017 - 04:48 PM, said:

On the civil war update page PGI even says "A family of lasers that do high damage at the cost of higher heat and less range," so it looks like they are keeping the same role. The basic stats though will problem change, like at least +1 heat on the HSL and HML (because of all S/M class lasers being hotter).

Heavy lasers are actually really easy to differentiate. Whether or not PGI will succeed is always something to worry about, but that's not a problem with the weapon family itself.

The best example of a laser family that would be fairly hard to differentiate (without creating redundancy/obsolescence) are ER Pulse Lasers. Those aren't getting added to MWO (yet?), though. The Micro class is another one, which PGI is adding...

That's not really the point.

The point is that when push comes to shove - in an intended range bracket littered with weapons of similar function - one or two of these will ultimately "win" and be the best.

There is such a thing as oversaturation of a niche - and the future state of lasers will be one of overstaturation.

The H-Lasers may dominate the niche or they might sink to the bottom - that is irrelevant.

The relevant point is that it is almost guaranteed that something will sink to the bottom.

The only way to squeeze in more of a weapon type named "laser" and avoid this - would be to make it actually not a laser at all and only a "laser" in name.


Each faction really does not need 10 different types of lasers.

That's where we are going regardless, but expect some to be obsolete.

[R Valentine]

Kmieciu, on 17 March 2017 - 03:54 AM, said:

I was talking in the context of balance. IS mech armed with Rocket Launchers will have no chance against a Clanner with SRMs. For example a Commando vs Mist Lynx if 6.
The whole "single shot" thing is useless in MWO.

They need to be inferno rockets. 1 free "make the enemy shut down" launcher would be very useful.

[Mcgral18]

Kiran Yagami, on 17 March 2017 - 05:39 AM, said:

They need to be inferno rockets. 1 free "make the enemy shut down" launcher would be very useful.

A single use, longer ranged Hyper Flamer (depending how many rockets hit)

Well, that's different. I was thinking more along the lines of TT Dead-Fire missiles for LRMs, 2 damage apiece. 3 would probably be too much.
40 damage isn't really a joke, especially not for 1.5 tons

[Willard Phule]

Clanner Scum, on 15 March 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

I just wish clans had access to RACs.

They will, in 3069. Which is why PGI stopped the clock at 3067.

[Willard Phule]

Kiran Yagami, on 17 March 2017 - 05:39 AM, said:

They need to be inferno rockets. 1 free "make the enemy shut down" launcher would be very useful.

Can't do it. Too close to "swappable ammo," which PGI has already proven incapable of coding.

[Pariah Devalis]

Kmieciu, on 17 March 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

Uhm... NO?
Rocket Launcher 15: 15 damage salvo for 1 ton 2 crits?
LOL.
I can have a C-SRM2 with half a ton of ammo instead. 100 damage per ton.

Um, yes? LOL.

You don't need ammo for those rocket launchers.

At 0.5 tons and one crit, you have 10 damage on demand.

The weapon system is still awful unless they let you freely apply it, because a one shot system basically has no place in MWO. However, the damage per ton for the launcher is insane.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 17 March 2017 - 07:43 AM.

[Skanderborg]

I think heavy lasers are going to help the thor out alot being short on hard points. 2 is all you will need , the rest heatsinks and maybe an ATM launcher.

[Mcgral18]

On the topic of identical weapons...isSL and isERSL

2 heat
150M range
3 damage

They match perfectly in that regard.
Should we expect a more invasive than usual approach, and have PGI nerf the isSL range back to 90M, then cut the heat to 1 and drop the recycle, to more of a DPS role?
Or bring in the isERSL to 3 heat, 200+M?



Or...bring them in with identical stats? That would be a nice laugh

[FupDup]

Mcgral18, on 25 March 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

On the topic of identical weapons...isSL and isERSL

2 heat
150M range
3 damage

They match perfectly in that regard.
Should we expect a more invasive than usual approach, and have PGI nerf the isSL range back to 90M, then cut the heat to 1 and drop the recycle, to more of a DPS role?
Or bring in the isERSL to 3 heat, 200+M?



Or...bring them in with identical stats? That would be a nice laugh

The IS ERSL being the same heat as the Clan ERSL would be heresy.

[Y E O N N E]

I am hoping PGI does a pass on all existing weapons when they work the new ones. There's considerable overlap across the entire small-class for both Clans and Inner Sphere. There is too much functional overlap between the standard Medium and ER Medium, too. Light Gauss and AC/10 could potentially clash, and then there's the Light PPC versus the AC/5.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 25 March 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

I am hoping PGI does a pass on all existing weapons when they work the new ones. There's considerable overlap across the entire small-class for both Clans and Inner Sphere. There is too much functional overlap between the standard Medium and ER Medium, too. Light Gauss and AC/10 could potentially clash, and then there's the Light PPC versus the AC/5.

Light PPC vs. AC/5 is easy because the former is much lighter and the latter fires faster with much less heat. I'd personally prefer the Light Peeper over the AC/5 though...

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 25 March 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

Light PPC vs. AC/5 is easy because the former is much lighter and the latter fires faster with much less heat. I'd personally prefer the Light Peeper over the AC/5 though...

Fires faster...until you consider a pair of LPPC. A quartet of LPPC will have, very likely, better DPS than a single AC/5 and you'll have ample tonnage to keep it cold for any reasonable engagement time.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 25 March 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

The IS ERSL being the same heat as the Clan ERSL would be heresy.

Yeah
But I'm going by PGI balance rules

There's the rare potential both might have modified stats, and the isSL doesn't get a net nerf.
Or that the isERSL has much better range than the cERSL.

Yeonne Greene, on 25 March 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

I am hoping PGI does a pass on all existing weapons when they work the new ones. There's considerable overlap across the entire small-class for both Clans and Inner Sphere. There is too much functional overlap between the standard Medium and ER Medium, too. Light Gauss and AC/10 could potentially clash, and then there's the Light PPC versus the AC/5.

A Global rebalance would be nice, for those bad, or mediocre items (AC10 and cACs being massive examples)
But the AC, normal versions, will all need some changes to have any appeal over the UAC variety. It's a simple number change, but we'll see if that happens.

Other items, more difficult (in that there's SO MUCH overlap). That doesn't make me hopeful.

[FupDup]

Mcgral18, on 26 March 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

Yeah
But I'm going by PGI balance rules

I'd predict 2.5 heat at this rate, because it's a pretty good chance that they won't touch the regular SL (sadly).

Mcgral18, on 26 March 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

There's the rare potential both might have modified stats, and the isSL doesn't get a net nerf.
Or that the isERSL has much better range than the cERSL.

PGI will never give an IS laser more range than the corresponding Clan laser.

Edited by FupDup, 26 March 2017 - 11:29 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 25 March 2017 - 09:33 PM, said:

Fires faster...until you consider a pair of LPPC. A quartet of LPPC will have, very likely, better DPS than a single AC/5 and you'll have ample tonnage to keep it cold for any reasonable engagement time.

I'm calling GH at 3
15 damage


No particular reason...but 4 may be a thing as well.


They'll also cycle faster than SRM6s

FupDup, on 26 March 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

I'd predict 2.5 heat at this rate, because it's a pretty good chance that they won't touch the regular SL (sadly).


PGI will never give an IS laser more range than the corresponding Clan laser.

#PGIPLZ

isERML (and SL) could at least have 2x range, and out-tickle the cERML
It's in line with the ERLLs (but both get 2x)