2487 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

Guys iv been away for a while what are we fighting about.




ps: the black lanner sucks...

Edited by pbiggz, 28 March 2017 - 06:33 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

pbiggz, on 28 March 2017 - 06:33 AM, said:

Guys iv been away for a while what are we fighting about.




ps: the black lanner sucks...

A certain someone keeps slandering my poll as a biased mess favoring the MW4 era entirely because the Nova Cat is absolutely steamrolling the Rifleman IIC. Its only a matter of time before we get #ThePollsWereWrong posts.

Make sure you vote in the poll if you haven't done so already (select all that apply).

[HGAK47]

Wait a second.... there is a Clan Locust? Oh my god I will pay good money for that! As long as a variant has ECM

Clan pirate bane, I dont even know what that means but it sure sounds good.

[Gas Guzzler]

HGAK47, on 28 March 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

Wait a second.... there is a Clan Locust? Oh my god I will pay good money for that! As long as a variant has ECM

Clan pirate bane, I dont even know what that means but it sure sounds good.

It is 25 tons though, be aware of that, it will be slightly bigger.

[Metus regem]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

It is 25 tons though, be aware of that, it will be slightly bigger.

And more than 20% meaner....

pbiggz, on 28 March 2017 - 06:33 AM, said:

ps: the black lanner sucks...

Glad we agree on that.

[FLG 01]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

A certain someone keeps slandering my poll as a biased mess favoring the MW4 era entirely because the Nova Cat is absolutely steamrolling the Rifleman IIC.

... which is simply wrong. Being a BattleTech-fan I am also more than a little annoyed by the MW:4-worshipping, but the Nova Cat is simply an important Mech in BattleTech.
And a beautiful one. I am biased in that, because the Nova Cats are the Clan I like the most (mysticism ftw), so their totem Mech means something to me. But then, the totem Mech of any clan is important by default.

In MWO, the Nova Cat might do ok. Its a bit slow, but it packs a punch. In many respects, it would be a smaller Night Gyr. Perhaps the greater flexibility and space (no FF, no JJ) makes up for the lower weight.

[Pariah Devalis]

Metus regem, on 28 March 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

And more than 20% meaner....



Glad we agree on that.

Honestly, I'd be hard pressed to decide what I'd want more. The Fire Falcon or the Locust IIC. LCT-IIC would have the benefits of being a battlemech regarding engine/armor/internal minmaxing potential, but the Fire Falcon moves at a pretty good clip to begin with, and benefits from omni-pods. Both can carry a heavy payload, though I feel like the LCT-IIC-1 would run way too hot outside of boating Micro Pulse.

FLG 01, on 28 March 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

In MWO, the Nova Cat might do ok. Its a bit slow, but it packs a punch. In many respects, it would be a smaller Night Gyr. Perhaps the greater flexibility and space (no FF, no JJ) makes up for the lower weight.

It would also heavily benefit from the disconnect of engine to mobility. Right now, with an XL280, it would be a powerful offensive platform, but absolutely awful to try and pilot. Do want it, though.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 March 2017 - 09:25 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 March 2017 - 09:25 AM, said:

It would also heavily benefit from the disconnect of engine to mobility. Right now, with an XL280, it would be a powerful offensive platform, but absolutely awful to try and pilot. Do want it, though.

No worse than a Night Gyr, aside from the lack of JJs of course. It does have the one variant with JJs but you have to use those side torsos which means giving up at least one of the shoulder energy hardpoints.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

No worse than a Night Gyr, aside from the lack of JJs of course. It does have the one variant with JJs but you have to use those side torsos which means giving up at least one of the shoulder energy hardpoints.

Seeing stump armed Nova Cats would be as nauseating, if not more, than the stump armed amputee Warhammers.

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

No worse than a Night Gyr, aside from the lack of JJs of course. It does have the one variant with JJs but you have to use those side torsos which means giving up at least one of the shoulder energy hardpoints.

Not entirely true. The Gyr has a 300 XL to the Nova Cat's 280, meaning the turning speed and torso twist is likely going to be worse. As is, the Gyr handles like an assault mech, which, personally, is a huge turn off. The mech has a ton of benefits over the Gyr, however, in it having significantly more free slots to place equipment, and better laser and missile boating potential (in the former case, due to being able to actually slot enough DHS), while still being entirely capable of hybrid builds with ballistics and energy. The Gyr would be the superior pure ballistic boat, however, and probably the better poptart due to the integrated JJ.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 March 2017 - 09:32 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 March 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

Not entirely true. The Gyr has a 300 XL to the Nova Cat's 280, meaning the turning speed and torso twist is likely going to be worse.

They are equal, agility is DIRECTLY tied to speed, which is why the Stormcrow has the same agility as an Adder (before quirks).

[Gas Guzzler]

FLG 01, on 28 March 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

... which is simply wrong. Being a BattleTech-fan I am also more than a little annoyed by the MW:4-worshipping, but the Nova Cat is simply an important Mech in BattleTech.

It definitely is.

What MW4 worshipping are you referring to? The whole Mad Cat Mk. II/Cougar/Uziel/Thanatos/Osiris/Nova Cat/Fafnir popularity? Yeah I guess those are all MW4 robots aren't they. Honestly, those aren't my first choices (aside from the Nova Cat) in terms of this poll, but I can get behind them as they are winning and would at the very least be decent robots (mainly talking Thanatos/Osiris/Nova Cat/Fafnir as the first 3 are already locked in)

Pariah Devalis, on 28 March 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

Not entirely true. The Gyr has a 300 XL to the Nova Cat's 280, meaning the turning speed and torso twist is likely going to be worse.

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 March 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

They are equal, agility is DIRECTLY tied to speed, which is why the Stormcrow has the same agility as an Adder (before quirks).

What he said. Barring any quirks, they would have identical agility unless they do the decoupling.

Which is why the mystical "Assaults have more agility than mediums because of their huge engines" comes back to slow mediums.. an XL400 Banshee goes what 75? So a stock Centurion is less agile than that Banshee pre-quirk, but if the cent goes 80, it twists/turns/accels/decels faster.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 28 March 2017 - 09:35 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

It definitely is.

What MW4 worshipping are you referring to? The whole Mad Cat Mk. II/Cougar/Uziel/Thanatos/Osiris/Nova Cat/Fafnir popularity? Yeah I guess those are all MW4 robots aren't they. Honestly, those aren't my first choices (aside from the Nova Cat) in terms of this poll, but I can get behind them as they are winning and would at the very least be decent robots (mainly talking Thanatos/Osiris/Nova Cat/Fafnir as the first 3 are already locked in)

Which to be fair, MW4 introduced some interesting and unique looking mechs (outside the MKII) so I don't really find the MW4 "worshipping" to be an issue.

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 March 2017 - 09:32 AM, said:

They are equal, agility is DIRECTLY tied to speed, which is why the Stormcrow has the same agility as an Adder (before quirks).

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

What he said. Barring any quirks, they would have identical agility unless they do the decoupling.

Interesting. I always assumed it was the engine rating that defined it. Not the speed itself.

But, yes, as I initially said. The mech would highly benefit from the decoupling. It won't make or break the mech, it brings far too much to the table for that, but it would significantly benefit.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 March 2017 - 09:35 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 March 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

Interesting. I always assumed it was the engine rating that defined it. Not the speed itself.

Sadly this misconception spread somehow, which may be why there is more resistance to decoupling than there should be.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 March 2017 - 09:35 AM, said:

But, yes, as I initially said. The mech would highly benefit from the decoupling. It won't make or break the mech, it brings far too much to the table for that, but it would significantly benefit.

Not necessarily. The Night Gyr still had less agility than a Timber Wolf after the decoupling IIRC, as in, it didn't really get "helped" by the decoupling (not that it should). Its up to PGI to arbitrarily assign agility values to mechs after the decoupling. There is a good chance it will be slightly more agile than the Night Gyr, but not necessarily as agile as a Timber Wolf. Most likely not as a matter of fact, despite being lighter.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 28 March 2017 - 09:38 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 March 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

Sadly this misconception spread somehow, which may be why there is more resistance to decoupling than there should be.

Engine rating vs speed being the deciding factor seems redundant to me, anyways. A mech of X weight should handle like a mech of X weight, barring possible acceleration rate and definite top speed differences due to larger engines. The turning rate should be more or less the same across all mechs of the same weight, IMO. In either case, top speed vs engine grade, it promoted huge engines to get acceptable levels of handling. Decoupling takes a variable out and makes the tradeoff for heavy lower speed standard engines a little better.

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

Not necessarily. The Night Gyr still had less agility than a Timber Wolf after the decoupling IIRC, as in, it didn't really get "helped" by the decoupling (not that it should). Its up to PGI to arbitrarily assign agility values to mechs after the decoupling. There is a good chance it will be slightly more agile than the Night Gyr, but not necessarily as agile as a Timber Wolf. Most likely not as a matter of fact, despite being lighter.

That's fine. I do not actually use the TBR as a metric for acceptable handling, as it over-performs a bit. If it feels too sluggish for its weight, it could use improvement. It didn't feel quite as sluggish to me in the PTS, which was a nice quality of life change for the mech.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 March 2017 - 09:43 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 March 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

Seeing stump armed Nova Cats would be as nauseating, if not more, than the stump armed amputee Warhammers.

DON'T EVEN THINK THAT!

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 March 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

That's fine. I do not actually use the TBR as a metric for acceptable handling, as it over-performs a bit. If it feels too sluggish for its weight, it could use improvement. It didn't feel quite as sluggish to me in the PTS, which was a nice quality of life change for the mech.

You may have misunderstood. The Night Gyr on the PTS had less agility than the Timber Wolf on the PTS, not comparing the Night Gyr to the live Timber. PGI gives mechs that are innately faster better agility values, or so it seems anyway. See Cyclops vs Mauler (on the PTS quirk PDF, the "engine to tonnage ratio" determines the baseline agility of the mech, not the tonnage itself).

Bishop Steiner, on 28 March 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

Seeing stump armed Nova Cats would be as nauseating, if not more, than the stump armed amputee Warhammers.

I'll probably have a quad ER PPC and quad HLL Nova Cat if that makes you feel better. Hopefully PGI blesses it with some awesome sauce set of 8 quirks so I'm not tempted to swap in the shoulder hardpoints to make the build more optimal.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 28 March 2017 - 09:46 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 March 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

You may have misunderstood. The Night Gyr on the PTS had less agility than the Timber Wolf on the PTS, not comparing the Night Gyr to the live Timber. PGI gives mechs that are innately faster better agility values, or so it seems anyway. See Cyclops vs Mauler.

Ah. I was comparing the Gyr in Live vs the Gyr in Test, however, where there was a mild improvement. I wouldn't ever actually expect the Gyr to handle like TBR, so I didn't bother to compare those two directly.

Edit:

Similarly, the SNV in Test felt a lot better than the SNV in Live for the same reason. Became a little more fluid in its mobility.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 March 2017 - 09:47 AM.