50 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

First of all you dont even know you can only fit is uac20 in side torso..

arms without actuators like the king crabs have 10 crits. uac20 is 10 crits. are you mentally retar ded?

Quote

Only a handfull of mechs will be able to run dual uac20 and it will be only with a std engine

no it will be with an LFE

Quote

You can already run 3xuac20 on direwolf but how many do you see doung that?

cuac20 is a burst weapon though. its not single shot. thats why its hardly used.

and likely no one will use the ISUAC20 either because it will also be a burst weapon. no one using it is preferable to it being overpowered though.

If the UAC20 was single shot it would be completely overpowered on mechs like the kingcrab with LFE. youd be able to smack people for 80 pinpoint damage, not including your other weapons.

Edited by Khobai, 16 March 2017 - 06:14 AM.

[TaintedLuck]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 06:09 AM, said:

arms without actuators like the king crabs have 10 crits. uac20 is 10 crits. are you mentally retar ded?



no it will be with an LFE



cuac is a burst weapon though. its not single shot. thats why no one uses it.

and likely no one will use the ISUAC either because it will also be a burst weapon.

how many people do you see using AC20? me almost never unless their quirked for it like the hunchback-4G. only real exception is the atlas but its only good for brawling

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 06:09 AM, said:

cuac20 is a burst weapon though. its not single shot. thats why its hardly used.

Nobody uses it because the velocity is too low and the jams are overly punitive for the investment.

Even thoughba pair woukd be a citizen mplete gimmick with only 300 meters reach, I don't think the isUAC/20 should necessarily fire single slugs...but I wouldn't break it up into more than two. Nothing on the 10, it's already lobbing softballs and would be a side-grade to twin standard 10s and a brace of ERML.

The real utility of the isUAC/10 and 20 is boosting poke damage using a single instance coupled with more tonnage-efficient weapons.

[Andi Nagasia]

maybe we will get a Jam Bar like whats described for the RAC,

Civil War Update & Weapon System Upgrades said:

Rotary AC/2 / Rotary AC/5

Extremely rapid firing Autocannons with rotating barrels. They can jam if fired for too long. The spinning barrels will likely have a ramp up time before they start firing, and a ramp down time after they stop.

[Jackal Noble]

You make the IS UAC10 only two shots, then the cooldown would need to be different.

[Andi Nagasia]

JackalBeast, on 16 March 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

You make the IS UAC10 only two shots, then the cooldown would need to be different.

why? more or less?

[MechaBattler]

There is not point in adding LBXs if they're worse than the regular ACs. NONE. Unless they make them into airburst munitions instead of the blunderbuss scatter effect it has. There's no point in investing extra slots for LBX effect! Just no...

[Andi Nagasia]

i think the whole LBX line needs a rework, perhaps a damage increase per Pellet? 1.2Dam/Pellet Perhaps?

[Khobai]

Quote

i think the whole LBX line needs a rework

they just need to give it slug fire mode

yes its impossible to have two different fire modes that use two different types of ammo

but they can have two different fire modes that use the SAME type of ammo as a workaround

[Andi Nagasia]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

they just need to give it slug fire mode

yes its impossible to have two different fire modes that use two different types of ammo

but they can have two different fire modes that use the SAME type of ammo as a workaround

ive talked about this before, its an old concept but,

(Mechanic For Implementing True Duel Fire Lbx, And How To Balance Them!)

you hit a Key and your LBX would switch from one firing mode to another,
changing the spread from 3.5 to 0 effectively changing from cluster to Slug,

i was told having all the Slugs hitting so close may mess with HSR and cause unintended issues,
such as not registering damage or registering more damage than indented, both are problems,
so the idea lost steam,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 16 March 2017 - 12:04 PM.

[TaintedLuck]

there is no point to give LB the option to be a slug cannon. Besides of the LB10 all of them are worse than the regular AC and buffing the LB2/5/20 will just obsolete the regular AC if you decide to give them the option to be crit seeking shotguns and pin-point armor shredding slug cannons.

the fact that they offer different uses is what gives them a use to begin with.

if clans LB20 has a slug mode no body would use the uac20 you could just smash a specific component for 40 damage instantly on the scorch.

dumb clammer doesnt even know the implacations this would have balance very likely make clans even stronger

[FupDup]

TaintedLuck, on 16 March 2017 - 12:54 PM, said:

there is no point to give LB the option to be a slug cannon. Besides of the LB10 all of them are worse than the regular AC and buffing the LB2/5/20 will just obsolete the regular AC if you decide to give them the option to be crit seeking shotguns and pin-point armor shredding slug cannons.

the fact that they offer different uses is what gives them a use to begin with.

if clans LB20 has a slug mode no body would use the uac20 you could just smash a specific component for 40 damage instantly on the scorch.

dumb clammer doesnt even know the implacations this would have balance very likely make clans even stronger

It would be nice if cluster shots just got buffed so that people wouldn't constantly ask for PGI to remove clusters from the game (because adding slugs = no more clusters ever).

Also, I'd expect "slug" Clan LBX to still fire in bursts like the Clan standard ACs do.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 06:09 AM, said:

cuac20 is a burst weapon though. its not single shot. thats why its hardly used.

and likely no one will use the ISUAC20 either because it will also be a burst weapon. no one using it is preferable to it being overpowered though.

Burst by itself does not make a weapon weak, it's other stats like damage, DPS, velocity, etc. that make it weak.

Yes, if we assume all other variables are equal then PPFLD is definitely better than burst. The thing is, the other variables don't need to be equal. Other numbers like cooldown time can be adjusted to compensate for the burst mechanic.

Edited by FupDup, 16 March 2017 - 01:02 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

The reason that people use shotguns in FPS games is very high instant short range damage at the cost of range. Shotguns that do the same damage as rifles wouldnt get used, and LBX's wont get used unless they do higher per shot damage than standard ACs. 1.2 dmg per pellet would be a good place to start.

Allowing LBXs to fire slugs would just mean they always fired slugs, and youd just use whichever version was smaller/lighter.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

And IS uacs are extremely unlikely to be single shell and will most likely be burst fire like the clan ones. otherwise dual uac20s would be super imbalanced. you could near-instantly put 80 damage into someones CT. That would be utterly stupid and irresponsible of PGI to allow that.

You are missing some key details. Work out the ghost heat on double tapping UAC20s. Its going to be WAY too hot for a short range build like that.

Also, there is a significant difference in the way the IS UAC5 double taps compared to the Clan UAC5 does. When you double tap the c UAC5, the second burst starts instantly after the first one end, where as the IS UAC5 doubletaps at about halfway through the cooldown. This would make a big difference for IS UAC10-IS UAC20, as it would essentially give you double DPS but not quite the same burst as the Clan UAC10. So... the UAC20 would give you a second shot ~2 seconds later, which isn't OP at all. If this is the distinction, I think I would rather the IS UAC10/20 have a 2/3 shot burst that can double tap instantly, as that would minimize face time.

JackalBeast, on 16 March 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

You make the IS UAC10 only two shots, then the cooldown would need to be different.

Why? You realize it is 3 more slots and weighs three more tons than the Clan UAC10 right? It HAS to be better in one way or another. You guys can literally put THREE UAC10s in one side torso, IS can't even fit 2.

l33tworks, on 16 March 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

Man you are so wrong...
First of all you dont even know you can only fit is uac20 in side torso..
Only a handfull of mechs will be able to run dual uac20 and it will be only with a std engine and they will be a one trick pony that will not pay of.
Im not saying they cant make IS UAC20.burst but it would be strange of them to do so since thays their thing and it certainly wont be this OP monster you are claiming it would be if it were single shot.

Its going to be hot as to double tap two of them, instant shutdown and i bet you wont even kill your opponent then you will be slaughtered. How many people do you see using direstars on a regular basis ? Heck 80%:of the time even a direstar wont kill the opponent for some pgi reason and thats 1 alpha vs 2.

Also You can already get similar damage using two gauss and 3 ppcs with 1 alpha instead of 2 for much less heat and no shutdown but how many do you see using that?

You can already run 3xuac20 on direwolf but how many do you see doung that?

Why is it a side torso weapon only? It has 10 slots, it can fit in arms without lower actuators.

[Metus regem]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

Bushwhacker isnt supposed to have an lbx20 in its arm. deal with it.

BSW-L1

The L1 variant of the Bushwacker is a configuration that changes the 'Mech to a close combat unit. The only long range weapon on the L1 variant is an ER Large Laser. For close combat, the L1 carries an LB-X Autocannon/20 that can fire either standard or cluster ammunition, adding versatility to the crippling firepower of this extremely deadly close combat weapon. Two and a half tons of additional armor was added to the BSW-L1, giving excellent armor protection. The L1 saw its engine upgraded to a Light Fusion Engine for increased survivability.

The record sheet for the L1, places the LB-20X spilt between the RA (9 crits) and RT (2 crits).... So would you care to amend your statement?

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 16 March 2017 - 04:27 AM, said:

Bushwhacker isnt supposed to have an lbx20 in its arm. deal with it.

Metus regem, on 16 March 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

BSW-L1

The L1 variant of the Bushwacker is a configuration that changes the 'Mech to a close combat unit. The only long range weapon on the L1 variant is an ER Large Laser. For close combat, the L1 carries an LB-X Autocannon/20 that can fire either standard or cluster ammunition, adding versatility to the crippling firepower of this extremely deadly close combat weapon. Two and a half tons of additional armor was added to the BSW-L1, giving excellent armor protection. The L1 saw its engine upgraded to a Light Fusion Engine for increased survivability.

The record sheet for the L1, places the LB-20X spilt between the RA (9 crits) and RT (2 crits).... So would you care to amend your statement?

Can you say....

REKT

[Mystere]

Jay Leon Hart, on 15 March 2017 - 03:09 PM, said:

Howdy! So, I recall reading about people wanting crit splitting to fir the LB 20-X AC into a Bushwacker arm because, unlike the LB 10-X AC, it is larger than it's "regular" counterpart.

So, for the sake of consistency, would people be opposed to tweaking the tonnage and crits of the new IS ACs?

Yes, I am opposed. Tonnage and crits are last few things remaining of lore in what is supposed to be "A Battletech Game".

If you're going to change that, then let's once and for all get rid of that moniker and at the same time change the names of everything -- Mechs, Equipment, etc.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Mystere, on 16 March 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

Yes, I am opposed. Tonnage and crits are last few things remaining of lore in what is supposed to be "A Battletech Game".

If you're going to change that, then let's once and for all get rid of that moniker and at the same time change the names of everything -- Mechs, Equipment, etc.

TT rules are not lore. Just saying.

[Widowmaker1981]

Jay Leon Hart, on 16 March 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

TT rules are not lore. Just saying.

A lot of people have TT rules and lore completely entwined in their heads, in fairness probably because TT DID come first - not that i advocate slavish following of TT rules, because rules designed for a different medium are .. well, designed for a different medium and gameplay > all

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 16 March 2017 - 01:35 PM.