50 replies to this topic

[Jay Leon Hart]

Widowmaker1981, on 16 March 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

A lot of people have TT rules and lore completely entwined in their heads, in fairness probably because TT DID come first - not that i advocate slavish following of TT rules, because rules designed for a different medium are .. well, designed for a different medium and gameplay > all

Yeah, it's a bugbear of mine on these boards.

Still, looks like my idea is a flop. Which is fine.

[Mystere]

Jay Leon Hart, on 16 March 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

TT rules are not lore. Just saying.

But in this particular case, TT crits and weight are considered lore.

Widowmaker1981, on 16 March 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

A lot of people have TT rules and lore completely entwined in their heads, in fairness probably because TT DID come first - not that i advocate slavish following of TT rules, because rules designed for a different medium are .. well, designed for a different medium and gameplay > all

But PGI has never deviated from TT crits and weight. Why should they now?

[Metus regem]

Mystere, on 16 March 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

But PGI has never deviated from TT crits and weight. Why should they now?

If they don't LB-2X/5X/20X are going to be overly penalized due to lacking a key ability that they have in TT, dual fire modes.

Seriously, if the LB-20X retains the 14t and 11 crits, why would you ever use it over an AC/20 or UAC/20 for the IS?

Why would you ever use a LB-2X over an AC/2, UAC/2 or RAC/2?

Why would you ever use a LB-5x over an AC/5, UAC/5 or RAC/5?

As it stands with the RAC/2 and 5 coming at the same time, I'm having a hard time justifying using UAC/2's and 5's as is...

[Jay Leon Hart]

Mystere, on 16 March 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

But in this particular case, TT crits and weight are considered lore.

Yeah, they're really not

Mystere, on 16 March 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

But PGI has never deviated from TT crits and weight. Why should they now?

That is the intended discussion

[Widowmaker1981]

Mystere, on 16 March 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

But PGI has never deviated from TT crits and weight. Why should they now?

Because.. if you dont change the size or buff it extremely strongly (more dmg per pellet, for example) it is just totally useless compared to an AC20, much less a UAC20. TT weight and crit value is balanced around the fact it can shoot slugs too.. in fairness, LBX10 barely sees use, and that ONLY because it is smaller and lighter than the AC10.

Im quite sure they wont do that, which is why im quite sure the IS LBX20 will be an unused weapon.

[Kangarad]

Do we have any mech that can even use more than 1 uac 20 on the IS side?

the atlas should bb able to use only one

KGC would be able to use 2 but would have to use LFE and would not have many backup weapons also the ghost ehat would be insane.. then again the kgc will sit somewhere arround 140 damage alphas with the other new weapons, why go for bowling balls?

maulers?even with a LFE engine you could bring almost nothing as backup weapons

Cyclops with LFE maybe, but SRMS are better heat/damage/tons whise


now for LBX 20....

maulers with a standart engine could possibly bring 2...

kgc's.... heh nope.

K2/warhammer ... if you like going slower than 50 and having most of your heatsinks in non armoured arms for the lols aka not nearly as good as the clan equiv. hunchback IIC with 2 clbx20

Cyclops... with a standart engine, so less backup weapons than good.

[FupDup]

Kangarad, on 16 March 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

Do we have any mech that can even use more than 1 uac 20 on the IS side?

the atlas should bb able to use only one

KGC would be able to use 2 but would have to use LFE and would not have many backup weapons also the ghost ehat would be insane.. then again the kgc will sit somewhere arround 140 damage alphas with the other new weapons, why go for bowling balls?

maulers?even with a LFE engine you could bring almost nothing as backup weapons

Cyclops with LFE maybe, but SRMS are better heat/damage/tons whise


now for LBX 20....

maulers with a standart engine could possibly bring 2...

kgc's.... heh nope.

K2/warhammer ... if you like going slower than 50 and having most of your heatsinks in non armoured arms for the lols aka not nearly as good as the clan equiv. hunchback IIC with 2 clbx20

Cyclops... with a standart engine, so less backup weapons than good.

Anything that can do double AC/20 can do double UAC/20, since both are 10 slots.

However, once you get into the heavy mech range it can get difficult to find tonnage...

Edited by FupDup, 16 March 2017 - 02:44 PM.

[Kangarad]

FupDup, on 16 March 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

Anything that can do double AC/20 can do double UAC/20, since both are 10 slots.

-2 tons weapon wheight, which pushes some builds that currently use standart engines out of range on the heavy side due to ammo problems unless they go for LFE.
also heat is a major problem sure 80 alpha damage sounds nice... until you notice that the equivalent of taking 100 to 120 more heat just for ghost heat alone (based on current ac20/cuac20 heat scaling) will cook you alive.

And the multiple heat due to fire rate bug with overlapping uac bursts has not been resolved either. (my 2 cuac10 highlander overheats in less than 3 seconds sometimes D: ) so expect to take arround 430 to 503 ghost heat instead and melt instantly.

[l33tworks]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 March 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

You are missing some key details. Work out the ghost heat on double tapping UAC20s. Its going to be WAY too hot for a short range build like that.

Also, there is a significant difference in the way the IS UAC5 double taps compared to the Clan UAC5 does. When you double tap the c UAC5, the second burst starts instantly after the first one end, where as the IS UAC5 doubletaps at about halfway through the cooldown. This would make a big difference for IS UAC10-IS UAC20, as it would essentially give you double DPS but not quite the same burst as the Clan UAC10. So... the UAC20 would give you a second shot ~2 seconds later, which isn't OP at all. If this is the distinction, I think I would rather the IS UAC10/20 have a 2/3 shot burst that can double tap instantly, as that would minimize face time.



Why? You realize it is 3 more slots and weighs three more tons than the Clan UAC10 right? It HAS to be better in one way or another. You guys can literally put THREE UAC10s in one side torso, IS can't even fit 2.



Why is it a side torso weapon only? It has 10 slots, it can fit in arms without lower actuators.

Ugh for some reason i had it in my head IS uac20 is an addional slot over what arms can fit i.e +1 a regular ac20 the opposite to how clan uacs work...So my mistake on the whole cant fit in arms thing IS uac20 gonna rock! Still wont be burst though..

Edited by l33tworks, 21 March 2017 - 12:04 AM.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Bigger UAC's, mainly the UAC20 should stay the same, pattern for IS should be 1, 1, 2, 4 for IS UAC's. LB20X needs to be like 9 slots, this would allow it to fit on the bushwacker which canonically the Bushwacker L1 has a LB20X, though they use crit splitting and removing the hand and lower arm actuator to accomplish this. Without ammo switching the LB20X needs to be lighter and smaller than it's AC counter part to have any upsides in MWO.

UAC20's for IS really should fire 3-4 rounds, UAC10's fire 2 rounds, make it so IS UAC's they couldn't manage to fire bigger shells so they just fire a bunch of smaller charge AC5 shells instead, effectively UAC5 and UAC2 stay PPFLD while UAC10's and 20's become burst to prevent 20-40 damage double taps. Now, as for UAC20's, those should be same size as an IS AC20 but heavier, allows for them to be usable to a degree. HAG's otherwise take their place due to being just flat out better than what a UAC20 would be because better range and velocity, even it not the same damage.