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Thank You P.g.i. And The 90%


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#21 Arbiter Sokar

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:45 AM

I apologise to those suspecting trolling. That wasn't truly my point. If you feel that way, quit reading and move along. Simple as that.

Next game, thanks for a real reply. I guess I didn't specify as I am also at work and in a hurry. Pgi being new, I meant 4 years with this game. With the community always complaining and pulling in every direction... Do you think they could please all of us? I think not. Always going to anger someone. I don't get the anger over a video game. Just actually boycott the product if it's wrong.
As for pgi treatment of us... I guess I've never felt wronged by them and those who feel wronged are the same that at work say the boss yelled at them when really they were simply asked to do their job as they are paid to do. Dramatizers.

As for not required to be nice. You are right... And bad players sucking will always happen. But if you treated players better, they might actually give a damn to follow the requests of a seasoned player. I personally was so fed up with upper tier rage quiters that I would commonly go off on my own as well. I have recently found less of that and as my original post states, I wanted to thank them. Getting better and playing as a team more often. Those who took insult to my post are likely the ones who are rude and surprised that no one does what they ask.

Again... My post is just to say thanks to those who are good players that help and thanks to a company that tried to make a game but can't possibly make all of you happy. No the product isn't great, it's what we have.

Edited by Arbiter Sokar, 16 March 2017 - 05:25 AM.


#22 Appogee

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:14 AM

View Postebolachan, on 15 March 2017 - 10:10 PM, said:

you know they don't give out free mechs for kissing *** right?

Correct. Kissing doesn't go nearly far enough Posted Image

Posted Image




But seriously, I agree that the criticism of PGI can be hysterical and 'over the top' at times. That contributes to PGI withdrawing from the community, unfortunately.

At the other extreme, some seem to not only accept repeated missteps, but applaud them. That's a different kind of 'over the top', that leads to different problems.

I believe the game, we as a community and PGI as a developer would all be better served if we took the time to compliment when it's warranted, and be understanding and constructive when we perceive problems.

Note that I'm not even proposing a 'middle ground'... more a 'rational response based each circumstance'.

Edited by Appogee, 16 March 2017 - 02:33 AM.


#23 XtremWarrior

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:22 AM

Damn, first post started nicely then end up with those kind of sentences:

View PostArbiter Sokar, on 15 March 2017 - 09:46 PM, said:

God knows I like pugs for easier kills so I let them play how they want even if I have to team with them occasionally.


Two months in and already looking down at pugs... What about "good spirit", again? Posted Image
Also, flaming or b1tchin about flaming/b1tchin players will not reduce the toxicity of these forums, you know...

If your point wasn't to troll, then you did it very very badly, and being offensive toward people you're accusing of being offensive doesn't make you look as a good guy but as an hypocrit.

(Also, I'm not saying this to blame you, but only to point out a few mistakes you did. Positive Threads usually get a lot of support here, what i highlighted are the reasons your original post did not)

#24 Arbiter Sokar

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:24 AM

View PostAppogee, on 16 March 2017 - 02:14 AM, said:


Kissing doesn't go nearly far enough Posted Image


Don't like the game or developer? Quit playing....

This repeat attitude of a 15 year olds version of humor is stale

#25 Tarogato

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:27 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 15 March 2017 - 10:25 PM, said:

I remember when I was new...


I used to defend PGI too! Until I stuck around long enough to learn that it was a waste of time...

#26 Arbiter Sokar

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:36 AM

View PostXtremWarrior, on 16 March 2017 - 02:22 AM, said:

Damn, first post started nicely then end up with those kind of sentences:



Two months in and already looking down at pugs... What about "good spirit", again? Posted Image
Also, flaming or b1tchin about flaming/b1tchin players will not reduce the toxicity of these forums, you know...

If your point wasn't to troll, then you did it very very badly, and being offensive toward people you're accusing of being offensive doesn't make you look as a good guy but as an hypocrit.

(Also, I'm not saying this to blame you, but only to point out a few mistakes you did. Positive Threads usually get a lot of support here, what i highlighted are the reasons your original post did not)


You're right. My apologies.i was tired of all the negativity and added to it.no excuse.
As for the pug comment, that was meant from the perspective of the negative players. I am a tier five pug and am just as easily taken out. Stomping a fellow tier five who made a tactical mistake is fun. Just as I'm sure they enjoy doing to me.

#27 Appogee

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:41 AM

View PostArbiter Sokar, on 16 March 2017 - 02:24 AM, said:

This repeat attitude of a 15 year olds version of humor is stale

Wow, tough audience.

How about this one...

A Developer and a Player walk into a bar.
The Developer says "Damn, who left that bar there?"
The Player says "You did - stop setting it so low!"

*boom tish*

Thank you, I'm here til Mechwarrior 5 launches.

Edited by Appogee, 16 March 2017 - 03:22 PM.


#28 Wil McCullough

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:48 AM

seems to be a strawberry generation thing.

back in the day, when people disagreed and debated over differing viewpoints, it was something to be encouraged because both sides learn something from each other.

now, we get passive aggressive posts telling people to leave if they don't like something. why? because they disagree with something pgi did? oh the horror. time to flee to your #safespace!

if you can't take disagreement, voicing your opinion on a public forum might ACTUALLY be the stupidest thing to do.

#29 Arbiter Sokar

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:49 AM

View PostAppogee, on 16 March 2017 - 02:41 AM, said:

Wow, tough audience.

How about this one...

A Developer and a Player walk into a bar.
The Developer says "Damn, who left that bar there?"
The Player says "You did - stopped setting it so low!"

*boom tish*

Thank you, I'm here til Mechwarrior 5 launches.


Thank you! Maybe we needed that.

#30 Bud Crue

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:32 AM

View PostArbiter Sokar, on 15 March 2017 - 09:46 PM, said:

If you really want P.G.I. or p.u.g.s. to change in favorable ways, make a business plan for them to look at rather than complaining or insulting. Train that p.u.g. to be more competitive rather than driving him off... God knows I like pugs for easier kills so I let them play how they want even if I have to team with them occasionally.


The president of this company has repeatedly declared over the last two years that CW/FP is "fine", "the core game play is fine", etc. but then specificlally holds town halls where they only invite ...how did you put it?..."elite tier 1 ninjas" to provide suggestions and ideas on how to fix their "fine" game.

They hold PTSs and invite the whole community to tell them how that which is being presented in said PTS will break or make the game better.

Thus, I think the community does plenty both for PGI directly, as well as for new players and PUGS alike (please see the new player section in the main forum page for starters, see player created resources that actually provide explanation and exposition for what this game is all about, because the game itself lacks such explanation or even mere description of much of its content).

But that isn't enough I guess for some. Now we need to provide them with their business plan?

Really? We buy their nostalgia, we play their product, we tell them how to fix it, we test it for them, we even tell them what we want with the sort of precision only a dedicated gronard-loretard who's been focused on an IP for nearly 30 years can, and yet now we have to also tell them how to create and conduct their business?
I think that seems a wee bit much.

Edited by Bud Crue, 16 March 2017 - 03:33 AM.


#31 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:34 AM

you love PGIs way -buy Mechs and give Money
you not love the Work =close the wallet and hope for better Days

#32 RedDragon

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:53 AM

Well, Arbiter, welcome, I guess. Let's talk again in a year or so without any new content (apart from "Want to buy a mech pack?"), with bad design decisions, ignorance and sometimes even insults from the Devs. If you by then still can say you love PGI, then kudos to you.

Btw - about PGI being a new company and "still learning" - I'd say if you are doing a job for over 5 years (and that's on this game only) and you are still bad at it ... well, most companies will kick you out by then.

#33 Arbiter Sokar

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:24 AM

I couldn't agree with Ranger more.

Admittedly last night I allowed myself to get carried away and my key point lost. But Ranger summed up a good point. For those that do not agree with me, you could boycott or otherwise no longer put into what you think is wrong. Stop complaining and either stop playing or yes.. make a business plan to help them. If 1 thousand players (I'm not even sure what the true player base is) were to all agree on something, and then as some players have put together fine detailed idea that we could all back.... maybe it would get done.

I know that if we continue to in-fight, they surely never will listen to the majority. That's why a select group is called upon I guess. I don't resent that. Frankly, I just enjoy shooting other stompy robots. But I have seen relentless complaints about balance and changes since I came on board.

Let me pose this question.... if you all want static play and balance... why don't every single one of you propose to utilize the same mech and the same loadout? 24 Kodiaks all with the same stuff?? Then you could all have the balance you so claim you need right?

Personally, I prefer the flavor. The challenge. The differing aesthetics. I have 2 ebon jaguars which have gawd awful hit boxes, but I sold off every other mech I had because I preferred the look and the challenge. Yea.... you guys kick my arse enough... but I also have one heck of a great time suppressing you with 60 tubes of spammy lrm fire. I am on a laptop after all which fps sucks so I cant "git gud" as I see on the forum all the time.

Red dragon, you are right. I'm sure in a year with limited content releases I will likely not be as enthused. But that's why we move on. Find another new game to entertain us. Frankly, the new content on a 4 friggin year old game, is the MW5 release. I mean come on... surely you understand they are putting more effort into the new game which might mean MWO is now just a test platform for what they did right or wrong so they can hopefully do better with MW5????

Does anyone who plays Halo 5 still complain about 4, or 3? Haven't they moved on? was 5 not an improvement in many regards to its predecessors?

So yes. I still stand by my original statement to thank PGI. In the very least... for putting up with being pulled back and forth by a divided community. I fully understand why they test with a select group now.

Go ahead, through more images of KY and comments about how I want a mech pack... (they really aren't that expensive, and in game currency is easy to get so I don't understand that insult)

#34 RedDragon

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:32 AM

View PostArbiter Sokar, on 16 March 2017 - 04:24 AM, said:

Red dragon, you are right. I'm sure in a year with limited content releases I will likely not be as enthused. But that's why we move on. Find another new game to entertain us. Frankly, the new content on a 4 friggin year old game, is the MW5 release. I mean come on... surely you understand they are putting more effort into the new game which might mean MWO is now just a test platform for what they did right or wrong so they can hopefully do better with MW5????

Well, you could have a point here, but by that logic they would have to be working on MW5 since 2013 ...
I'm not spending anything on MWO for a long time now, so I am kinda "meh" on that part, but if I was a paying customer, I'd be quite angry if MWO degraded to some kind of test-bed for another game, especially since they keep putting ridiculous prices on everything - in fact even lessening the value you get for a mech pack.
If they put MWO on the back-burner, they should say so and make it clear that there won't be any larger upgrades or new content in the future.

#35 Arbiter Sokar

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:51 AM

View PostRedDragon, on 16 March 2017 - 04:32 AM, said:

Well, you could have a point here, but by that logic they would have to be working on MW5 since 2013 ...
I'm not spending anything on MWO for a long time now, so I am kinda "meh" on that part, but if I was a paying customer, I'd be quite angry if MWO degraded to some kind of test-bed for another game, especially since they keep putting ridiculous prices on everything - in fact even lessening the value you get for a mech pack.
If they put MWO on the back-burner, they should say so and make it clear that there won't be any larger upgrades or new content in the future.

Why so defeatist though? Help me understand. I truly want to get it but I haven't got there despite reading so many threads.
Obviously they have not been working on solely MW5 since 2013. I get that it seems like dribs and drabs to a player but I feel several new mechs have come out in the two months ive been playing. With their efforts being directed mostly at MW5 the pull away from MWO is going to seem huge. Have we forgotten the days when a game came out and we paid $40-$60 and were lucky if we ever saw a patch for any errors?
This game is to put it very simple.... death match. So when we play the crap out of the same maps, we are going to get bored really quickly. With todays I want it and I want it now mentality... how can they work on a new project and appease the back and forth bickering this community does?
I agree that new maps would be awesome. New game modes would be great but if I read correctly in the forums, many complaints abound on escort and domination..... what game modes wont result in skirmish??? Yes we need new stuff. We are getting some stuff here shortly like new weapons, but some are already upset that will make IS too OP.
Put yourself in the shoes of a businessman. Not even necessarily PGI. Imagine you have a customer base split into 4 major groups. The first two groups are 50% of the entire base and equally divided on the pro or con. The other 50% are divided randomly with points agreed or disagreed from both of the two major points. Meanwhile the vocal minority acts as the majority and many are obviously never going to be happy with what you do... which group do you appease? They are all customers and they all feel their point or view is the correct one. How can you possibly appease them?

There is no solution. I invite you to form a massive majority that agrees on key points that need change. I challenge you to come up with a business plan not a complaint. I challenge you to present it and push it with dignity and respect for the other players and the devs. (Red dragon, I'm not targeting you specifically)

#36 MacClearly

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:42 AM

View PostArbiter Sokar, on 15 March 2017 - 09:46 PM, said:

I joined you all two months ago and this is my first post.

I feel I cannot thank P.G.I. enough for resurrecting a game I love enough. I understand that they are a newer company in the grand scheme and are still learning. I applaud them for their efforts given how 10% of this community treats them. It's no wonder they probably don't read these forums for their own creation.

I thank the 90% of you who just play this game because it is just that. A game. I enjoy losing a game with fellow pugs as much as I love stomping them the next game. I appreciate you sticking it out despite some toxicity both in game and in these forums. I am so glad some of you actually helped me get a little better rather than dismissing me as a "potato" or "stupid p.u.g.". Those players were actually useful. Thank you so much.

Those of you elite tier 1 ninja mech pilots who are out of touch and negative... I am so sorry for you. You bash each other and the devs, then complain about every single thing. I want change but not that change... This was free but not good enough... Stupid noobs... Etc. I poi t out one thing to those of you negative players..

Take a look at your posts.

How many views versus how many replies.

Do you think maybe 90% are actually laughing at your pathetic crying or laughing with you?

If you really want P.G.I. or p.u.g.s. to change in favorable ways, make a business plan for them to look at rather than complaining or insulting. Train that p.u.g. to be more competitive rather than driving him off... God knows I like pugs for easier kills so I let them play how they want even if I have to team with them occasionally.(edit: originally when I stated this it came off wrong. I also am a tier 5 pug and on the same level. I mean this as a give and take peer level. I lose to them too.)

I've read this forum enough to know bishop Steiner will have a quip (edit: bishop I said you would have a quip, not take either side) and I already know most of your negative responses... So just don't waste my time. Please just challenge yourself to change. Be the light rather than that dark.....


A couple of things....

For those 90% you speak of it is very hard to know what they may or may not be thinking if they don't say anything. Well, except not saying anything can actually say something, but regardless, you can't claim the silent majority.

Another thing is I am of the opinion, based off what you have said, that you don't appreciate the passion that many in this community have for not only this game, but the whole Battletech universe. There is already a bit of a split in the community due to there being table top, books, as well as video games. There is however no shortage of passion about this game and its roots.

Finally, while I have bumped heads with the player you mentioned, he is by far one of the most positive contributors on the forums and very knowledgeable about lore and Battletech. From everything I have read of his posts regarding the proposed changes, he is in favour of them. So not only have you seemed to misrepresent his stance on the issue, you have singled him out personally. Recommend you change that as it is not only uncool in this case but against forum rules.

Edited by MacClearly, 16 March 2017 - 07:06 AM.


#37 RedDragon

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:44 AM

View PostArbiter Sokar, on 16 March 2017 - 04:51 AM, said:

Why so defeatist though? Help me understand. I truly want to get it but I haven't got there despite reading so many threads.
Obviously they have not been working on solely MW5 since 2013. I get that it seems like dribs and drabs to a player but I feel several new mechs have come out in the two months ive been playing. With their efforts being directed mostly at MW5 the pull away from MWO is going to seem huge. Have we forgotten the days when a game came out and we paid $40-$60 and were lucky if we ever saw a patch for any errors?
This game is to put it very simple.... death match. So when we play the crap out of the same maps, we are going to get bored really quickly. With todays I want it and I want it now mentality... how can they work on a new project and appease the back and forth bickering this community does?
I agree that new maps would be awesome. New game modes would be great but if I read correctly in the forums, many complaints abound on escort and domination..... what game modes wont result in skirmish??? Yes we need new stuff. We are getting some stuff here shortly like new weapons, but some are already upset that will make IS too OP.
Put yourself in the shoes of a businessman. Not even necessarily PGI. Imagine you have a customer base split into 4 major groups. The first two groups are 50% of the entire base and equally divided on the pro or con. The other 50% are divided randomly with points agreed or disagreed from both of the two major points. Meanwhile the vocal minority acts as the majority and many are obviously never going to be happy with what you do... which group do you appease? They are all customers and they all feel their point or view is the correct one. How can you possibly appease them?

There is no solution. I invite you to form a massive majority that agrees on key points that need change. I challenge you to come up with a business plan not a complaint. I challenge you to present it and push it with dignity and respect for the other players and the devs. (Red dragon, I'm not targeting you specifically)

I see where you are coming from - you just discovered the game, everything is new and exciting - we all were at this point when we joined MWO. Back in 2012 I was really excited, the Beta was great, I loved the game. Then it became obvious that PGI basically has no clue what they are doing and that they massively underestimated how difficult it would be to make the game (or they just massively overestimated their own abilities, most likely a combination of both).
The funny (or rather sad) thing is: They already had a plan that most (all?) players back then liked. Just google MWO and the four pillars they invisioned to base the game on. They said they would have a galactic conquest with meaningful battles, factories, different factions etc. Then YEARS after it should have been here, they pushed out that ridiculous farce of CW where you fight over painting a map and nothing else. No rewards, no depth, no nothing. And just recently the skill tree: When MWO was announced, they said there would be role warfare, i.e. you'd choose which abilities your Mechwarrior would have (scout, assault whatever). What we got was a generic (mech-based nevertheless!) skill tree without any choices. And now after 5 years the "big overhaul of that placeholder" is basically the same system with a new skin, but still no real choices, no role warfare.
Granted, today it would be quite hard for PGI to release anything without backlash. But that doesn't come out of nowhere. It's based on a long history of PGI putting in the least possible effort while on the other hand belittling and sometimes even insulting the players. I can't remember a single time when PGI really did something right. Every single thing they released after the Beta was half-assed and mostly badly implemented. At first I was a strong supporter (until they released the Clans without ANY backstory or event, it was just "Clans are here, buy mech packs!") and gave them the benefit of doubt, countless times saying "give them some time, they will get it right". Well, I was wrong.
It is as you say: MWO is a death match shooter, nothing more. And that's a shame because it could be so much more. And yo uanswer your own question: "but I feel several new mechs have come out in the two months ive been playing" - that's exactly the point. There is nothing but new mechs (the main thing generating money for PGI). And it has been this way for 5 years.
I am thankful they resurrected the IP, but they really didn't do it a service in anything that followed the Beta. Quite the opposite: Since they have such abysmal PR guys (if they have any) and they did a great job of infuriating the community time and again, now people think the BT community is an unthankful bunch of haters. With the many PR catastrophes this game went through, it wouldn't amaze if no other publisher or Dev wanted to touch the IP in the future. I am so thankful HBS came along and that they make an actually good BT game. Go over there and look at the forums, there's seldom a harsh word from the community. That's because the Devs actually care about their game and their players. So it's obviously not the community's fault but PGI's that players over here are so bitter and disillusioned.

#38 Wil McCullough

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:50 AM

View PostArbiter Sokar, on 16 March 2017 - 04:51 AM, said:

There is no solution. I invite you to form a massive majority that agrees on key points that need change. I challenge you to come up with a business plan not a complaint. I challenge you to present it and push it with dignity and respect for the other players and the devs. (Red dragon, I'm not targeting you specifically)


don't be ridiculous.

the onus is not on your customer to come up with a better product/service in order to prove your product/service sucks.

i mean, if i buy a car and the damn thing breaks down every other mile, the manufacturer better not tell me to "show me you can design a better car, if not shut up and suck it up."

View PostMacClearly, on 16 March 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

Finally, while I have bumped heads with the player you mentioned, he is by far one of the most positive contributors on the forums and very knowledgeable about lore and Battletech. From everything I have read of his posts regarding the proposed changes, he is in favour of them. So not only have you seemed to misrepresented his stance on the issue, you have singled him out personally. Recommend you change that as it is not only uncool in this case but against forum rules.


+1

Edited by Wil McCullough, 16 March 2017 - 05:59 AM.


#39 B0oN

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 06:00 AM

Hi OP, nice to have you .
Question, so from old vet to freshly-caught starter :
Isnt that a a touch longwinded and overconstructed way to say hi while dishing out some sotto voce ad hominems ?
Simple "Hi ! I think you salty vets are ungrateful and negative ********" might have done it too ^^

Anyways, have fun .

P.s: Dont step into my ERPPCs :)

Edited by The Shortbus, 16 March 2017 - 06:01 AM.


#40 NeoCodex

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 06:26 AM

What got me most is how can he speak for the 90%. I'm pretty sure - that the forums - with the average of 1.000 users browsing consists of more than just 10% of the community. And if they're buying mechpacks, it would be a pretty good chance they're visiting the homepage and the forums as well, which would make it the core playerbase, and not the vocal minority - IMHO.





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