36 replies to this topic

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

Hello: I'm a newbie with an abysmal kill ratio. It's getting better but I played a lot of games without knowing anything and I still frequently get killed without a kill of my own, even with dealing a lot of damage (for me a lot means more than 200). I could say it doesn't matter but I don't want a terrible kill ratio to follow me forever. Seems to me I need at least one
net kill (after death if any) per game on average for a sustained period to get respectable (I'd be happy with 1:1). On the other hand kills seem unrelated to pilot skill level changes,
which is odd, according to the Match results screen.

What are some of the tricks and tips for getting a lot of kills rather than just a lot of damage -- and please don't say just be a better pilot. And does anyone really look at the kill ratio?

And incidentally does anyone know how many pilots are on the leaderboard or how to find that info?

Thanks!

Edited by DeloresAbernathy, 16 March 2017 - 01:09 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Press R

Look at the mech info that pops up. Work out it's weak point. If the CT is red, shoot it. If a torso is red, shoot that.
Also shoot the mech the guy standing near you is shooting, you'll last much longer.

I did a few QP games last night (rare for me), and I netted 2-4 kills a game and about 700dmg average across 5 or so games... I shoot the mechs at their weak points, job done.

[Roughneck45]

I think average match score is more relevant than KD.

If you are trying to up your KD the way to do it is direct fire high damage builds and hunting down the wounded mechs. Poptarting, laser vomit, and SRM splat builds. Pick out those XL engines. Be mindful of how many people are shooting it and try to get a last hit in.

The other half is not getting killed. From the perspective of increasing your KD living is more important than winning.

All of this stuff leads to selfish play, so its best to keep it in mind rather than play like that 100% of the time.

[justcallme A S H]

Ye I'm betting his builds need a lot of work, that is the first place to start.

Post them up - use http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

[TooDumbToQuit]

Do kills matter? Uh..yes, yes they do. Can you help your team win without one kill? Absolutely.

I ran Kit Foxes for a long time, made a lot of friends and rarely had a kill. The bad news is that I did not do much damage and did not get decent match scores.

Also while I was learning to play and not doing well, more than a few players mentioned having to "carry me and others" which really hurt.

For me, there is one overwhelming reason why some get kills and others do not. And that is simply that they last until the end of the match. That is when one shot can get a "kill" because the enemy mechs are already shot up. This does not mean hide during the game, it means play smarter and simply do not die early.

A goal every player should have is at least one KMDD. Or a Kill Most Damage Done. You did not get the "kill" (which is simply the shot that kills the enemy mech even though it was 3 points of damage) but you did the most damage.

One Kill should also be a goal because, on one hand, it means you were able to last long enough to the end of the game to make a Kill. And it also makes and you look better (to others) and makes you feel better.

P.S. Consider moving your "target" from the R Button to "scroll up" on your mouse. I do not like to take a finger off on a movement buttons so I have changed a few like "Airstrike" etc. Having "Find Target" on my scroll up on my mouse means that when I do not have a target, I can hit it 30-40 times a minute.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 16 March 2017 - 02:05 PM.

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

Thanks for the great advice from all. I will put it to work. I should add, for my pride, that I do often get KMDD, more often than a plain kill.

[InspectorG]

DeloresAbernathy, on 16 March 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

Thanks!

Kills are nice. But W/L is a better measure of a pilot.

Really, MWO is about doing EFFICIENT damage, aka, the least needed to kill a mech. This is why in general, LRM boats are bad.

The THREE basic skills to learn that will help overall play:

Positioning

Defense

Aim

Positioning is the most esoteric. You have to know the maps. Know the popular firing lanes. Know the popular positions to take. Know the popular campsites. Know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away. Know when to YOLO.

Look at your RADAR every other second. Yes, that often, just peek and look at the relationship between Blue/Red Doritos in relation to the map. make a mental note. Get a feel for where the Reds are moving.
After time you can sight-read the map like a musician playing live from sheetmusic.

The most common scenario in Solo is Blue blob meets Red blob in Center. Boring but generally a good sign. Blobs meet, form a battle line and trade until a flank forms.

The other common scenario is a NASCAR. Blues zoom to the right, Reds zoom to your left. Slow mechs get left behind and become food. Fast mechs get easy pickins until the other team turns on its brain and counter-pushes at the right time/place and those fast mechs get slapped.

There is some skill to 'playing the objective' in relation to positioning but save that for later.

Defense is what keeps you alive.
Oddly enough, positioning should be a good chunk of your defense. There arent any real Tank roles in MWO per se. Any 3 mechs should be able to drop any singled out mech in short time.

So not getting hit by return fire is a good form of defense. this is why newbs/bads run to LRMs and the skilled use Jumpsniping.
I wont blame a newb for running to LRMs, it seems smart at first.
Bads think they are 'supressing the enemy' but if they are they dont realize they are playing vs other bads.
There ARE arguments for backup LRMs in certain cases, and if used in a coordinated manner CAN work...

But MWO favors hitting FIRST, hitting HARD, and mitigating incoming damage. LRMs do not let you hit FIRST(unless your positioning is hella good). They CAN hit hard BUT have inefficient damage, and have the most hard counters(like moving behind terrain)

So yeah, save LRMs for trolling later or in cases of using 1 LRM5 to help level a slow mech.

Back to Defense...

Face-tanking is a bad idea as well. You will hear people speak of 'twisting damage'. This means when getting hit - you torso twist so their damage spreads all over and you dont lose a component as quickly. This is why people use Gauss+ ERPPC, all damage is where it lands, cant be twisted.

You learn to fire-twist-fire-twist... If in a Slow mech ot brawler.

Lose a ST? Still alive? GREAT! That destroyed ST will negate incoming damage(60%?) as long as they hit it.

Another form of defense is not to peek at the wrong time. This is why teams want to push together. When erbody pushes, the enemy has to choose targets(likely diluting firepower).
When you peek alone, guess how much choice the enemy has to make?

Not saying NOT to peek, just do so when you have an angle, and feel its a good time.

Aim

Actually the easiest. PRACTICE. Lower the ingame mouse sensitivity to like...as low as you can stand. Aim should improve immediately.
Another thing to do those first 2 minutes of a match is shoot the corners of terrain AS you move and twist on cooldown. BE SURE not to hit teammates or give away position to the enemy.

The LAST SKILL

The Art of Dying.
Yes there is an art to it in a game with no respawns. Die like a brave man, not some chump KDR farmer.
Sometimes you get rolled and teammates sit there, frozen, and die like baby seals. It happens. Dont be a seal.

When that happens, you pick a target, and commit to dragging them down with you. You may get a kill.

Last man standing? GREAT! This is the opportunity for a VERY memorable match.

After the Quirkening, i was on HPG in my ThunderWub. team was total derp. Conquest, we were losing on caps and dropping fast. I went and capped to save the match. I head back to center and realize im Last Man.

Well, this happens in Puglandia.

I take Theta and 3 reds come after my mainly fresh ThunderWub. A Timby, A Griffin, and some other medium(HBK?).

I rip the other ST off the Timby thinking ill kill at least one. I backpedal and twist behind a corner. I lost a arm.
The Griffin pushes around and i burn his CT and he dropped. I push and catch the Capping medium who wasnt paying attention.

I get 3 kills on beat up enemies.
Teammates applauded my aim.

I taunt the last 2 enemies, 'Come to Theta and die'(yes i did say that in all-chat).

We won on caps(not quite sure how).

Enemy response, " **** this *****y team, you guys suck ".

Now, if i ran off to save my KDR because i was out-numbered, would i have this awesome story to tell?

Me, a totally average casual, saved the match. Good times in Solo, enjoy them, they are rare.

Thats the basics. Hope it helps.

[Cato Phoenix]

Kills matter so far as its often a game objective, and will generally help you win a game regardless of the mode. Does it matter if you specifically get a kill? No, generally not. Objectively, damage (and thus match score) are generally more important. KMDDs and smart teamwork and objective play will gain you more wins.

Win loss ratio is even iffy, as in QP your teams have such a huge affect on it.

Damage is universally helpful, although it's not the end-all of the game- given the concept of 'focused damage' or efficient shooting. Someone who can toss out 700 damage splattering lrms everywhere probably helped in some form or fashion, but it is not totally a scale assessment compared to someone who got, say, 400 damage and 3 KMDDS on three mechs he killed completely by himself.

Damage also doesn't guarantee a win - I have a screenshot of a very good player racking almost 1900 damage in a game but our team still won with 2 mechs left alive. 6 mechs with >500 damage vs 1 mech with 1900, 1 with 600 and 7 between 300-400. All in all a good spread of damage from both teams, but the numbers don't automatically tell the story.

So my personal achievement bar is thus:

1) Do what you can to play the objective/win the game.
2) Do a lot of damage and KMDDs
3) Attempt to maintain a good KDR
5) Winning is good, but if our team does lose and I accomplished the above, I feel I've contributed.

[justcallme A S H]

Components is usually what I aim for, when in Faction Play. KMDD just come with it.

I'm usually aiming torso's over CT, most of the time. One match where I deliberately just went for torso's on every mech, over 48 mechs I took 38 torso's lol. I got a good chuckle outta that.

Given most people can't hit the same place and spread their dmg, the torso is generally easier to take off and maim a mech. If IS XL - then it's insta dead, so that's a KMDD 9/10 times.


That said I started off with a 0.31 KDR after my first 4 months. After 12 months more playing, learning and doing well - I've managed to climb it up to 1.90 KDR. So if you are good it will go up naturally.

I would recommend joining a unit, one that does training etc. That will improve your game massively by learning from others.

[The Jerol]

Roughneck45, on 16 March 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

I think average match score is more relevant than KD.

If you are trying to up your KD the way to do it is direct fire high damage builds and hunting down the wounded mechs. Poptarting, laser vomit, and SRM splat builds. Pick out those XL engines. Be mindful of how many people are shooting it and try to get a last hit in.

The other half is not getting killed. From the perspective of increasing your KD living is more important than winning.

All of this stuff leads to selfish play, so its best to keep it in mind rather than play like that 100% of the time.

This.

Just focus on improving your positioning, accuracy, map knowledge and map awareness. Kills will take care of themselves after that. What's been discussed here is also true -- staying alive until the end is key. That's when the kills pile up quickly as the remaining mechs are usually severely damaged. KDR is a nice stat, but I agree with Roughneck45 that average match score is a better metric.

Also, remember that PSR is closer to an experience level than it is to any kind of true measure of skill. Given that your win rate in true solo queue will hover around 50% and that you (nearly) always get a PSR increase when you win and often get either no change or even an increase even when you lose, it will continue to climb with time. So again, I go back to looking at my average match score as an indicator of how I'm playing, relative to other players.

I am also a new player (well, played a bit in 2013, but I don't count that -- and neither does PGI as those stats are archived) and I can tell you what I do wrong the most during any given match: I call it "putting on blinders" when I focus on one enemy and my position relative to him only. God forbid I get a flank shot on a stationary mech that is ignoring me. In that case I usually also stop and keep shooting him and I forget everything else. That's when I usually die -- good players keep moving and flow around the battlefield with the team, focusing fire and sharing armor. I try to immediately review my game mentally during the end screens and 9/10 times there was something I could have done better.

Also, I find it really helpful to watch good streamers and YouTube vids of game play. There is just so much to learn from their thoughts on builds, to positioning during matches, etc. I recommend Molten Metal, Kanajashi, BlackhawkSC and M4J35T1C for starters, though there are many others.

Good luck to you!


TJ

[G4LV4TR0N]

I had something like 5 kills with ~85 damage total once. Anyone better?

[jper4]

KMDD I find to be a better indication of how much you put into the kill than the actual kill which can easily be stolen by that wandering 2MPL spider that just happened to get the last shot on the mech you whittled down from 95% to 50% beforehand. the stats will show the spider with 1 kill and you 0 but you'd get the kill most damage dealt bonus (of course this doesn't show on the scoreboard) so the guy with 2 kills, 5 assists 200dmg will look at your 0 kill 5 assist 400dmg and think he accomplished more and ignore your 3kmdds which means you most likely crippled 3 mechs by yourself but got unlucky at the finish.

but basically stay alive longer and your odds will increase at getting kills. that atlas at 100% at the start of the match is tougher to kill 1v1 than the same atlas 10 minutes into the match missing its arms and stripped of armor in several places. but at the same time you have to be ding some fighting instead of trying to vulture kills at the end, cause, you know, SOMEONE has do all that damage to soften the atlas up before someone kills it

[G4LV4TR0N]

It's not kills or KMDD's actually. It's probably how many times you've managed to core/cripple/disable opponent. And it's not shown on any ladder/table.

Lets say you are facing some "deadly mech" that has all his load on one side and is using other side to shield himself. If you manage to destroy arm with his main weapons and leave him down to his torso mounted backup things then you have managed to disable him. Now if some ally will keep attacking that disabled mech, it's very likely he will get KMDD because "deadly mech" pilot will keep using empty side to shield himself. But final kill will go to third ally, because simply, he will unload single massive alpha strike at "deadly mechs" rear.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 17 March 2017 - 07:34 AM.

[Faellun Freeman]

DeloresAbernathy, on 16 March 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

Hello: I'm a newbie with an abysmal kill ratio. It's getting better but I played a lot of games without knowing anything and I still frequently get killed without a kill of my own, even with dealing a lot of damage (for me a lot means more than 200). I could say it doesn't matter but I don't want a terrible kill ratio to follow me forever. Seems to me I need at least one
net kill (after death if any) per game on average for a sustained period to get respectable (I'd be happy with 1:1). On the other hand kills seem unrelated to pilot skill level changes,
which is odd, according to the Match results screen.

What are some of the tricks and tips for getting a lot of kills rather than just a lot of damage -- and please don't say just be a better pilot. And does anyone really look at the kill ratio?

And incidentally does anyone know how many pilots are on the leaderboard or how to find that info?

Thanks!

I completely understand everything that is going through your mind but I am not experienced enough to give any advice save this, do NOT give up. The kills I have gotten are due to staying with other bigger mechs, hitting the target that was called out and just happening to get the "money" shot. There have been a few light mech kills where I got lucky due to reflex shots when they came around the corner already heavily damaged. I have noticed that three mechs together can wreck a mech pretty quickly when they focus the same target. I have been the target and even heavy mechs like my Timber Wolf die quickly to focus fire from good teammwork.

[Rogue Jedi]

in a Light Mech many times have I taken down 100 ton Assualt Mechs from fresh in less than 5 seconds because people neglect rear armor.
I have also gone down in a Spider (when they were much smaller than they are now) while moving at about 150, to a dual gauss headshot in the basement on HPG.
good or lucky shots will take down an Mech quickly, if you are good enough 33 damage can kill any Mech with a headshot, but the head/cockpit hitbox tends to be tiny, e.g. the Atlas left eye or the center pane of "glass" on most Mechs cockpit.

if you have 12 Mechs working together and focusing fire any Mech is likely to go down in a few seconds

I have also disabled 100 ton Mechs in a light Mech ^{(because it was a good pilot who knew how to sheild preventing me from getting the quick kill)} and ran to join the main fight where my allies were outnumbered, only to have two allies break off from the main fight to get the "free kill" I had left, ensuring out loss.

[justcallme A S H]

G4LV4TR0N, on 17 March 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

It's not kills or KMDD's actually. It's probably how many times you've managed to core/cripple/disable opponent. And it's not shown on any ladder/table.

Yes it is, it's called Match Score.

I think my Avg Match score for QP is around 400. I usually take 4-8 components a match, 2-4 KMDD and usually 2 kills. Plus a bunch of UAVs, spotting targets, staying with my lance etc etc.

ALL things contribute to a high match score. Dmg is also a factor but I can still get a huge match score in a NARC/TAG ACH so it's all relative depending on what you contribute to a game.

The Avg Match score for most people is around 150-200 by comparison, most T1s are 300 or above (as they contribute more, most of the time). I forget who posted the table with that data.

[G4LV4TR0N]

justcallme A S H, on 17 March 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

Yes it is, it's called Match Score.

I think my Avg Match score for QP is around 400. I usually take 4-8 components a match, 2-4 KMDD and usually 2 kills. Plus a bunch of UAVs, spotting targets, staying with my lance etc etc.

ALL things contribute to a high match score. Dmg is also a factor but I can still get a huge match score in a NARC/TAG ACH so it's all relative depending on what you contribute to a game.

The Avg Match score for most people is around 150-200 by comparison, most T1s are 300 or above (as they contribute more, most of the time). I forget who posted the table with that data.

Match score does not count how many mechs you core without killing them. It does not count how much damage you take while pushing and tanking for rest of your team. It does not count how many enemies are you distracting alone while allied mechs take cheap shots at them. Yet all such actions contribute to victory more than getting high score after game.

[Rogue Jedi]

G4LV4TR0N, on 18 March 2017 - 04:17 AM, said:

Match score does not count how many mechs you core without killing them. It does not count how much damage you take while pushing and tanking for rest of your team. It does not count how many enemies are you distracting alone while allied mechs take cheap shots at them. Yet all such actions contribute to victory more than getting high score after game.

an excelent point,

years ago when there was still a 12 player group only queue and ECM still had a 180m radius I had a few games where I was tasked with providing ECM cover with my Cicada.

never have I worked harder in a match, keeping 12 Mechs under ECM is while advancing and/or poking from cover required a lot of concentration and coordination, including advising players to speed up or slow down so I could keep them in range, 1 game we won 12-0, I ended the match with 0 damage, no kills or assists, I did not locate any enemies I literaly just spent the match keeping everyone under ECM and I was judged to have been a significant factor in our win but under the current rewards system, and indeed the rewards system at the time, that would have very low rewards.

unfortunately there are plenty of non combat things you can do to significantly improve your teams chances but they are often high risk low reward for the individual player

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 18 March 2017 - 05:01 AM.

[Faellun Freeman]

Hey Delores.

I found something that has helped me immensely is turning my mouse sensitivity down. I run mine at .3 and it made a HUGE difference in my aim and ability to keep shots on target. Ive practiced the maps and practice firing at the dummie targets while moving and trying to focus on one component til it falls off.

If you take a torso then the arm comes with it but im not sure if that counts as two component destructions in a real match or if you have to remove each separately.

Ive watched a ton of videos and studied how they move and how the good pilots reposition and when. Then I try to figure out why they did that. Baradul is really good at explaining what he is doing and why as he plays.

Maybe this will help you.

[Roland09]

Faellun Freeman, on 18 March 2017 - 09:58 PM, said:

If you take a torso then the arm comes with it but im not sure if that counts as two component destructions in a real match [...]

It does count as two components destroyed.