32 replies to this topic

[KingCobra]

After axes and shield was locked i wanted to start this new thread i like it when the Moderators step in and lock it before a person missbehaves to a point of irratency.I personnaly think it would be fun to have a duel mode (key) or (button) to change from a melee mech with shield and axe to my standard loadout like in the PC games .Battletech is about a big universe full of adventure,lostech,and characters that made the best use of there mechs to win battles,worlds,galaxy sectors,ect.So some players need to step up and play,read,tabletop,xbox, to see it all i have and it has been as grand a expereance as my emersion into StarWars or StarTrek.
Lets hear your ideas on this in a (CIVIL) way please remember you only represent your own opinions and not the community that your trying to represent for all others.

[Hayden]

My 2 cents: no interest.

EDIT: Besides, dev team has already made it clear that they're not working on anything with melee. Point is kinda moot.

Edited by Hayden, 13 December 2011 - 09:46 AM.

[KitLightning]

Soo in all you want LAMS in MWO

I think that the most logical option that would be to use a restricted configuration, where you have to chose either to mount a Melee weapon only or Standard Weapons only on the Arms.

That is, if melee weapons has a place in MWO at all, that they may be rather futile to implement and will be used at a too low ratio so it is not worth adding.

BTW just because a 'Mech has a hand, does not automatically make it able to pick up stuff in a 3D environment, it may be too cumbersome to accomplish or only used at a too low ratio that the time to implement it, cannot be justified. Remember that the arms and hands needs to be animated separately, as well as the collision with other assets should work at an acceptable ratio first, else you will see a lot of rage post from peps complaining about their precious Axe cutting through 'Mechs without damage, or the 'Mech Arms taking an autospin after a hit, etc.

[Havoc2]

No melee in MWO in the forseeable future, post is moot.

[Barantor]

Hayden, on 13 December 2011 - 09:45 AM, said:

My 2 cents: no interest.

EDIT: Besides, dev team has already made it clear that they're not working on anything with melee. Point is kinda moot.

Not yet anyway, they haven't ruled it out but I doubt it will be in release.

[GaussDragon]

Hayden, on 13 December 2011 - 09:45 AM, said:

My 2 cents: no interest.

I'm with Hayden on this one. Just a matter of preference, not really into the melee combat thing.

[ManDaisy]

I dont think its a bad idea. For starters a battle tech turn last about 10 seconds, a skilled pilot should be able to switch between modes in less then that time.

If switching from weapon to physical mode makes your mech come to a complete stop, then everything fits together as far as table top play is concerned. Also with a mode change, changing aiming to where you physically hit, it would make a lot more sense then a universal "punch" or "kick animation" that hits randomly.

As to everyone who automatically plasters "that answer" instead of actually discussing the issue, grow some of your own thoughts and stock licking the brown stuff.

I would also like counter the point there there is no interest. I am interested for one. KingCobra your title is a bit misleading I suggest clarifying it.

Edited by ManDaisy, 13 December 2011 - 10:57 AM.

[Omigir]

I dont really pilot mele mechs, but wouldnt mind them. Might be interesting if i got around the feet of an assault mech and it decided to kick my light mech to clear me out. Another level of play in there I suspect. More or less though I dont care either way.

[VYCanis]

mode change could work i think, especially if doing so severely limited torso twist range to be mostly locked in the forward position give or take 20 degrees or so, as i have trouble imagining punches or kicks being thrown while twisted 90 degrees without looking goofy as hell.

though the melee rules should have a lot of changes made from the TT when translated, because certain aspects would just not carry well.

[Dihm]

I don't mind the charging, pushing, punching, kicking, and axing if they can find a way to make it work. I didn't care for it when they brought in swords and shields. I put that stuff in the "it never happened" category with protomechs.

[Fresh Meat]

I wish they would stop putting hands on everything and make it clear that they are actualy "modernizing" the game. I feel that melee combat has no place in a simulator first mech game.

[verybad]

Melee is hard to balance with weapons and still be beleiveable IMO. Either mellee is overpowered up close and mechs with weapons get pummeled, or it's underpowered and nobody uses it. It almost would have to be overpowered up close otherwise it would be ignored.

Personally I think it just looks dorky when used by mechs. I would rather it's not in the game, and I suspoect that once it's in the game, I'll probably start looking for a new game.

If people were in, then I wouldn't mind a little ninja action, mechs carry axes is not what I'm looking for however. I'm very glad the developers have said it won't be in at release and would only be put in if they can make it balanced and work well.

Edited by verybad, 13 December 2011 - 12:35 PM.

[Red Beard]

Discussion for the sake of discussion. Point is dead.

[KingCobra]

i dont think this is dead the DEVS said we will not have it at launch but we might work on it later down the road in development that to me suggests a im sure if we can work it out right it will be in the game.

[verybad]

Ignoring the fact that I personally don't want it in the game for aesthetic reasons. I will stick to my opinion that it's hard to balance in a game, especially a Multiplayer FPS like Mechwarrior without it either being useless or overpowered. It's very hard to get the exact level.

You don't watn people using Atlases to (litterally) onepunch targets or light mechs getting behind an assault and multipunching them to death while the Assault is having a hard time turning around.

At the same time, there's no good reason to put it in if people don't use it in the first place, so it has to have that level of lethality or it's not just ignored, but reviled as poor play.

Finally, melee combat needs very accurate animation, more accurate than ranged combat, or it doesn't look good at all in game. With multiple heights and shapes for mechs, this is not an easy tast, it could easilly take as much animation as the rest of the game or more to look right when fighting with different sized andshaped units. It would be an expensive addon.

[VYCanis]

Difficult to balance, but not impossible

1. Don't allow mechs to melee indefinitely. Have punches and kicks deal a small amount of damage to the armor and equipment of the associated limbs. Having hands would reduce this and increase punch damage, but punch too much and you'll be punching with a stump and breaking your weapons open over someone else's mech. With legs, kick too much and you have an increased risk of busting your foot actuator and getting a bit of a limp. Dedicated hatchets though should have a lot of durability considering all the tonnage you are sacrificing, and not risk the arm's components. Clubs like trees or severed limbs or girders or whatever should vary in overall durability but slow the mech down to carry them accordingly.

2. Bigger mechs naturally hit harder than smaller ones like they do in the TT, but their attacks should also have longer hang time, and telegraph more. Smaller mechs attack slightly faster with quicker motions.

3. Melees involve the mech in question really throwing their weight behind a single attack, leaving them vulnerable if they bite off more than they can chew or if they miss. So no chaining attacks together or anything like that. Also melee attacks can unbalance you making you easier to knock over with weaponsfire or even other melee attacks, especially when kicking.

4. melee attacks should only be done when facing mostly forward, so no circle of deathing someone with punches or kicks

5. landing a melee however, even if it does not do very much damage, can really mess with someone's aim, having significant knock factor, and having a good chance of knocking an enemy over if your mech significantly out masses them.

6 Ramming should be separate from charging. The former should be a byproduct of simply driving into someone and should damage both parties like two people going for a jog and accidentally colliding. Charging should be its own deliberate action requiring specific conditions that is more like 1 person jogging and the other bodyslamming into them like a hockey player. resulting in more damage to the charged mech than the charging mech, but should be harder to aim, and involve significant telegraphing in regards to animation.

7. Only allow charging at full running speed, only allow punches and kicks at under walk speed, each attack slowing you almost to a stop. In that way a player that wants to break away from a punchfest still has some chance of doing so unless they are significantly slower or totally cornered.

8. Punches and kicks might be controlled via a toggle that switches your firegroups into melee mode. or have its own button, Each mech might have a few animations that can maybe be context sensitive depending on relative movement and mech positions, cycles randomly.or might instead involve holding a particular movement direction at the time (holding turn left before punching to swing a wild backhand to the left) ala chronicles of riddick

9. To offset the punch advantage, mechs without lower arm actuators really should get the arm flip

10. Overall, melee should feel like articulated demolition derby... clumsy but brutal. none of that anime ninja mecha stuff with high precision and fluid movements. Mech melee should be like i dunno... drunken trains colliding. Momentum is key. Over extended movements, wild swings, whiplash, and such. Just throwing a punch should really shift your view around as your mech throws its weight into an attack, connecting should feel like you just had a car crash, missing should feel really awkward and leaning almost precariously in that direction.


If a jenner makes the mistake of getting within arms reach of an atlas, that jenner should run the risk of getting pimpslapped right into (possibly through) a building.

I want to see a hunchback round a blind corner, painted blood red, covered in scorches, holding a girder in one hand and a severed mech arm in another, ready to rush.

I want to be able to pick up a fuel truck and break it apart over an enemy mech's head like a very large explosive loaf of bread.

It would i think make people much more wary about closing into spitting ranges and really give those clanners something to think about when they get into maps that don't allow them their usual range advantge.

Edited by VYCanis, 13 December 2011 - 03:09 PM.

[Pht]

Hayden, on 13 December 2011 - 09:45 AM, said:

EDIT: Besides, dev team has already made it clear that they're not working on anything with melee. Point is kinda moot.

Uh, the comments I saw amounted to that they were looking into it, but that so far they had not seen what they thought was a very "clean" way of doing Melee.

AK, you voted no?

SHOCKING!

[Fiachdubh]

Other than actually running into another mech the only form of melee combat should be the axe and hatchet of the axeman and hatchetman. I don't think the melee weapon attacks of these two mechs would not be too hard to implement and animate. Kicking, punching, tripping, shoulder rolls and the like are on the other hand complete nonsense if you actually look at the design of most mechs.

[CaveMan]

"Duel mode"??? No ****ing way.

"Punching" and "kicking" with 'Mechs is more like clumsily ramming your opponent with a body part, not giant robots doing martial arts. Hatchets are only barely tolerable because those are big heavy chunks of metal whose purpose is to smash another 'Mech at close range.

Swords and shields are just...just no. Please, no.

[verybad]

^This.

Swords and Shields means I don't play the game and don't recomend it either.
Personally I just this melee weapons specially built for mechs is utterly dorkonic. Prying a piece of building out at a last minute weapon to smash an enemy when all your normal weapn are busted...ok. Actually building them into a mech...ugh. Ruins it for me.