409 replies to this topic

[ALEXANDER CARLYLE]

Pentagon Worlds.. here we come.

[Grus]

Mcgral18, on 21 March 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

I see someone is unable to use Critical Thinking and basic Arithmetic

7 damage
1.15 Duration

7/11.5=0.608 Dam/Tick (tenth of a second)

5 damage
0.9s duration
5/9=0.555 Dam/tick


Hey, look at that! The Clam laser does MORE damage in the same 0.9s of the isML
That holds true (equal or greater) for ALL BUT TWO lasers, the MPL and LPL
They're also generally the same reload, but total recycle being marginally slower due to duration (IE, 0.25s longer for the ERML)

good job you can use a calculator, .05 of damage isn't crap. And if that's your argument for "superior" clan tech then I'll stop and just follow Mark Twain's guidance on the subject. You have to factor in the time for the clan weapon to A finish firing, B cooldown to fire again, C all the IS crazy perks (mech depending), D heat buildup / ghost heat. We do run a lot hotter and our heatsinks have the same cooling as the IS per heat sink. So we can't fire as many shots before overheating, and only a few mechs can fire more than 3 meds or 2 large before ghost heat spikes us to dangerous levels. And once we get that hot we have to back off for a while to cool down, God help you if a IS mech you're engaged with comes around the corner and keeps pumping shots into you....

[Edward Hazen]

AnimeFreak40K, on 21 March 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

...again?

As in the Faction Warfare that existed before the Clans were released for MWO?

Hate to break it to you, but Clans were released for MWO before Community Warfare (as it was called back then).

I said to remove lostech as well and yes, Clans were in before CW, but they could just as easily remove them, especially since they are unwilling to make Clan Mechs actual Clan Mechs.

[Gas Guzzler]

Grus, on 21 March 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

good job you can use a calculator, .05 of damage isn't crap. And if that's your argument for "superior" clan tech then I'll stop and just follow Mark Twain's guidance on the subject. You have to factor in the time for the clan weapon to A finish firing, B cooldown to fire again, C all the IS crazy perks (mech depending), D heat buildup / ghost heat. We do run a lot hotter and our heatsinks have the same cooling as the IS per heat sink. So we can't fire as many shots before overheating, and only a few mechs can fire more than 3 meds or 2 large before ghost heat spikes us to dangerous levels. And once we get that hot we have to back off for a while to cool down, God help you if a IS mech you're engaged with comes around the corner and keeps pumping shots into you....

Oh please. You also have lighter loadouts and smaller DHS so you can cram a whole lot more into your mech. [Redacted] Have a nice day!

Edited by draiocht, 22 March 2017 - 12:38 AM.
insult

[Zergling]

Grus, on 21 March 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

good job you can use a calculator, .05 of damage isn't crap. And if that's your argument for "superior" clan tech then I'll stop and just follow Mark Twain's guidance on the subject. You have to factor in the time for the clan weapon to A finish firing, B cooldown to fire again, C all the IS crazy perks (mech depending), D heat buildup / ghost heat. We do run a lot hotter and our heatsinks have the same cooling as the IS per heat sink. So we can't fire as many shots before overheating, and only a few mechs can fire more than 3 meds or 2 large before ghost heat spikes us to dangerous levels. And once we get that hot we have to back off for a while to cool down, God help you if a IS mech you're engaged with comes around the corner and keeps pumping shots into you....

Lmao, did you completely forgot the fact that Clan mechs can fit far more double heat sinks than IS mechs?


Here's this Black Knight vs Timber Wolf comparison again, which accounts for IS quirks:

Zergling, on 20 March 2017 - 09:12 PM, said:

In case you didn't know, Clan laser vomit is blatantly superior to IS laser vomit, even with IS laser duration, cooldown and heat generation quirks.

Eg, compare a Black Knight that has -10% energy heat generation quirk, running 3x Large Laser and 5x Medium Laser with 19 double heatsinks and 68.0 kph top speed.
Versus a Timber Wolf with no quirks, running 2x Large Pulse Laser and 4x ER Medium Laser with 26 double heat sinks and 81.0 kph top speed.

Black Knight has a 52 damage alpha strike that causes 36.9 heat. It also has 3.85 heat dissipation per second and a heat cap of 69.5.
This gives it a maximum DPS of 12.76 with a sustained DPS of 5.43, a single alpha strike brings it to 53.1% heat and it dissipates the heat from an alpha strike in 9.58 seconds.

Timber Wolf has a 54 damage alpha strike that causes 44 heat. It also has 5.06 heat dissipation per second and a heat cap of 80.
This gives it a maximum DPS of 12.70 with a sustained DPS of 6.20, a single alpha strike brings it to 55.0% heat and it dissipates the heat from an alpha strike in 8.70 seconds.

End result? Timby is running cooler because it can dissipate heat faster, resulting in a 14% advantage in sustained DPS.
The Timby also has a 225 meter advantage in effective range and 13 kph advantage in top speed.

Edited by Zergling, 21 March 2017 - 03:13 PM.

[Grus]

Zergling, on 21 March 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

Lmao, did you completely forgot the fact that Clan mechs can fit far more double heat sinks than IS mechs?


Here's this Black Knight vs Timber Wolf comparison again, which accounts for IS quirks:

I'm going to try out that timber btw. That is one mech.... IS has MANY diffrent mechs that you try to do a comparable build (IS TO CLAN META) just won't work. And add now the fact that our components are now weaker and more easily destroyed, negates any advantage how ever minute you think they have.

[Zergling]

Grus, on 21 March 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

I'm going to try out that timber btw. That is one mech.... IS has MANY diffrent mechs that you try to do a comparable build (IS TO CLAN META) just won't work. And add now the fact that our components are now weaker and more easily destroyed, negates any advantage how ever minute you think they have.

Timby is far from the only good Clan mech, and IS really don't get much better than -10% energy heat with a heap of hardpoints like on the Black Knight.

[ALEXANDER CARLYLE]

Do we get to attack Huntress and the other clan worlds? That would be great.

[Grus]

Look the main gripe I have is that if you look at those numbers you have me the extra damage clan mech do is minor in comparison. Now add to that Clan mech effective hp is getting dropped hard, we will need to devote a lot of skill points into survivability just to compinsate..

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 22 March 2017 - 12:41 AM.
discussing moderation issue

[HUNTERS MOON]

Its like... you wake up and go out to ride your Harley...and you find a Schwinn there instead. That's all.

And the guys with the Yamahas are saying.."You deserve it."

Edited by HUNTERS MOON, 21 March 2017 - 03:29 PM.

[Zergling]

Grus, on 21 March 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

Look the main gripe I have is that if you look at those numbers you have me the extra damage clan mech do is minor in comparison.

It isn't just damage, but greater mobility and range.

IS Medium Laser has an effective range of just 270 meters; even with a mech that has like +15% range quirk, it still only has an effective range of 310 meters.
Versus the Clan ER Medium Laser, which has an effective range of 405 meters.

With the Timby having greater mobility, it can more easily choose the engagement range than the Black Knight, which amplifies that range advantage, resulting in a much greater damage advantage for the Timby.


And compare the firing sequence for both mechs firing alpha strikes:

Black Knight:
0 seconds: fires alpha, does 52 damage, generates +36.90 heat, current heat is now 36.90, 53.09% of max heat.
4.25 seconds: dissipates -16.36 heat, current heat is now 20.54, 29.55% of max heat.
4.25 seconds: fires second alpha, does 52 damage, generates +36.90 heat, current heat is now 57.44, 82.64% of max heat.
8.5 seconds: dissipates -16.36 heat, current heat is now 41.08, 59.10% of max heat.
8.5 seconds: fires third alpha, does 52 damage, generates +36.90 heat, current heat is now 77.98, 112.19% of max heat.

Black Knight will then shut down, and it will take 20.25 seconds to dissipate all heat.


Timber Wolf:
0 seconds: fires alpha, does 54 damage, generates +44.00 heat, current heat is now 44.00, 55.00% of max heat.
4.37 seconds: dissipates -22.11 heat, current heat is now 21.89, 27.36% of max heat.
4.37 seconds: fires second alpha, does 54 damage, generates +44.00 heat, current heat is now 65.89, 82.36% of max heat.
8.74 seconds: dissipates -22.11 heat, current heat is now 43.78, 54.72% of max heat.
8.74 seconds: fires third alpha, does 54 damage, generates +44.00 heat, current heat is now 87.78, 109.72% of max heat.

Timber Wolf will then shut down, and it will take 17.35 seconds to dissipate all heat.


Sure the Timby takes 0.24 seconds longer to fire 3 alphas, but it will return to 0 heat 2.91 seconds faster than the Black Knight, which is a significant advantage in a DPS contest.

Grus, on 21 March 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

Now add to that Clan mech effective hp is getting dropped hard, we will need to devote a lot of skill points into survivability just to compinsate..

Clan mech effective HP isn't being dropped, only that of components (weapons and equipment).

There is no change to Clan armor/structure health.

Edited by Zergling, 21 March 2017 - 03:42 PM.

[Grus]

Zergling, on 21 March 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

Clan mech effective HP isn't being dropped, only that of components.

There is no change to Clan armor/structure health.

I was adding that I to the equation. So like this, if my lasers are now easier to knock out that means less damage output. Up goes time to kill for clan vs is. So with these changes I forsee a lot more of a sniping play style from clans because if we get hit now we have a much higher chance our wepons are going to get knocked out and lose combat effectiveness.

[Scum of the Earth]

I can't tell if this patch is really "big" or if my internet connect has gone Ka-put! I haven't compared previous patches to this one but this is the first time the downloader has stated that there's a three hour download wait. Normally it's like 45-60 min on patch day. Can someone else confirm this rather huge wait time I'm getting? Thank you.

[Zergling]

Grus, on 21 March 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

I was adding that I to the equation. So like this, if my lasers are now easier to knock out that means less damage output. Up goes time to kill for clan vs is. So with these changes I forsee a lot more of a sniping play style from clans because if we get hit now we have a much higher chance our wepons are going to get knocked out and lose combat effectiveness.

I think you will find the component changes will make little difference.


Also note that new tech for IS really aren't going to buff them much. Take the Black Knight in my example; it can upgrade its 315 Standard to a 345 Light, improving its speed from 68 to 74.5 kph, but that is the only buff it will get.
It can't fit any more heat sinks, and if it upgrades the Medium Lasers to ER Mediums, it will lose substantial amounts of DPS.

LFE will be a buff for it, but only a minor buff; it will still be at a disadvantage versus Clan.

Edited by Zergling, 21 March 2017 - 03:50 PM.

[I cant want to]

315 std to 345 lfe would lose you a dhs space due to st space requirements

[Zergling]

chaothulhu, on 21 March 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

315 std to 345 lfe would lose you a dhs space due to st space requirements

It would gain an extra engine heatsink.

It ends up with 0 slots free.

Edited by Zergling, 21 March 2017 - 04:00 PM.

[HUNTERS MOON]

Notice that PGI didn't give us any advanced notice on this change? They just did it. I guess that's the way it will be going forward. No more testing, just like it or lump it. Its revenge for the last three changes we beat back.

My patcher gets to around 2/3 full then disappears. No error message. Anyone else?

Edited by HUNTERS MOON, 21 March 2017 - 04:06 PM.

[Grus]

And add to that the ammount of new tech IS is getting in relation to clan... light tag and probe? Really? Please tell me they couldn't do better...

[HUNTERS MOON]

Anyone else have a patching error where it stops and goes away?

[Grus]

Probably messing up due to high demand load.